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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
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Moorabbin Ghost said:
Hes a bog average ruckman, his only strength at stoppage is grabbing ball out of the air and teams are onto that now.
Even the Blues game he dominated hit outs against Silvagni (as he should) but we got touched up at stoppage.
I love him as a forward and second ruck but if we want to win finals then I don’t think Marshall as a number 1 ruck works.
Click to expand...
Agreed
Def not the number one ruckman
 
If we’re talking Vardy. What’s Mark Blake upto?
 

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Mowman said:
The Saints have been vocal in their recruitment for key backman over the past several seasons, signing the likes of Dougal Howard, Jake Carlisle and James Frawley.

The latter duo are unlikely to remain at Moorabbin past this year, with Howard to require assistance in defence as Brett Ratten looks to ignite the club's premiership credentials.

Talia would arrive at St Kilda and quickly fill the mould of a reliable defender, albeit at 30-years old come the turn of the year.

The veteran defender would cover the bridge of waiting for younger players to develop while the Saints firm for a top-eight finish and contend toward the top of the ladder across the coming years.

With a premiership alluding him, Talia could see the Saints as an ideal avenue to reach that maiden success in the league after getting narrowly close with the Crows in the past.
Click to expand...
Talia = YUK
 
StCicatriz said:
How was seb ross play in the back line where he couldn't bounce the ball.

Membrey on similar levels of Dunstan and Ross with his inside 50s. Holds it when he shouldn't and blows what should be certain goals.

That dropped mark. Fmd.
Click to expand...


These guys are limited players. They aren't terrible, they are the best of the Trout era and while they aren't stars they are solid enough. Most of my mates are Tigers fans, before they changed their game plan they were a lot like us. Riewoldt was a gun, Cotchin was a tougher lesser Steele. Edwards was a good solid mid etc and then Dusty came on and they changed their game plan to suit personnel. Their defence was probably a bit more high profile with Rance a gun though. Grimes came on etc.

To me those guys are fine as part of the cake, they just shouldn't be the icing. Our greatest strength is our depth of even talent who are good without being stars. What we need to take the next step is for a few to go from GOPs to guns while retaining the depth of even talent under them. Membrey has looked much better the last 2 weeks since he went back to being a third tall.

King looks one, Steele already has and we probably need a couple more to go up a level. If Gresham or Clark or Byrnes or Bytel or a heap of others could go to the next level, we would be a lot closer to the top 4 all of a sudden. I think the coaching isn't maximising our advantages either, Ratts improved after midseason but he took a long time to play to our strengths instead of trying to turn us into something we're not. If he'd done that early we might have made finals and avoided huge blow outs.
 
gringo2011 said:
These guys are limited players. They aren't terrible, they are the best of the Trout era and while they aren't stars they are solid enough. Most of my mates are Tigers fans, before they changed their game plan they were a lot like us. Riewoldt was a gun, Cotchin was a tougher lesser Steele. Edwards was a good solid mid etc and then Dusty came on and they changed their game plan to suit personnel. Their defence was probably a bit more high profile with Rance a gun though. Grimes came on etc.

To me those guys are fine as part of the cake, they just shouldn't be the icing. Our greatest strength is our depth of even talent who are good without being stars. What we need to take the next step is for a few to go from GOPs to guns while retaining the depth of even talent under them. Membrey has looked much better the last 2 weeks since he went back to being a third tall.

King looks one, Steele already has and we probably need a couple more to go up a level. If Gresham or Clark or Byrnes or Bytel or a heap of others could go to the next level, we would be a lot closer to the top 4 all of a sudden. I think the coaching isn't maximising our advantages either, Ratts improved after midseason but he took a long time to play to our strengths instead of trying to turn us into something we're not. If he'd done that early we might have made finals and avoided huge blow outs.
Click to expand...

Don’t forget Leo in that mix. Turned 20 years of age in the last week but he just looks like a player. I have him pegged at the same level as Hunter Clark.

Good by foot, nice turn of pace and great acceleration, very elusive and doesn’t mind working his way out of congestion. Has plenty of natural footy IQ and plays with confidence.

I would rather Leo was trying to hit players on the lead than a heap of our more seasoned players. And I think his teammates feel the same way because you can see them trust him to be the one to move the ball forward.

Leo just needs to be stronger in the tackle contest and better defensively but I feel as confident that he will make that progression as I do about anybody else on the list.

When this kid gets to 50 games the lid will be off.
 
Sully111 said:
Roma needs to fix his goal kicking, otherwise it's no use playing him as a marking forward.

Would he work down back when he's not rucking?

Ideally he plays forward, but he needs to convert.
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He has got the ability to play anywhere. Seems to have dropped off a bit. At one stage he had more cred than any player in the team. Needs to work on his goalkicking for sure. Ratten does not seem like the "experimental" type coach to me nor his assistants so you might not see Marshall at CHB or CHF unless ratts reads it on here of course, then the penny might drop.
 
Still like us to have a look at Kieran Strachan from Adelaide as a back up ruckman/forward only 25yo. With a year being taught by Ryder the finer points it will give him that little bit of extra edge. Looking at his different highlights reckon he has a lot of upside.
 

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Grav said:
Still like us to have a look at Kieran Strachan from Adelaide as a back up ruckman/forward only 25yo. With a year being taught by Ryder the finer points it will give him that little bit of extra edge. Looking at his different highlights reckon he has a lot of upside.
Click to expand...
Went well against Max gawn and OOC
 
Hard to speculate, but I don't think Marshall's body was quite right on the weekend. He didn't move well and didn't get off the ground. Stanley is also capable of playing great games once a month. He's got right on top of Grundy and other more capable rucks occasionally. Calls that write him off as a solo ruck are premature. We saw in 2019 what he could do at full fitness and with a consistent run in the ruck. We saw it last week too when he gave Hickey a bath. He's had a stop-start year with injury and has been thrown between forward and ruck pretty regularly. He's never going to be an absolutely dominant tap ruckman, but his strengths in the ruck are still prominent. With a good pre-season and an injury free run at it, I'm confident he'll bounce back next year, whether as a forward/ruck or a solo ruck.
 
CursingFijian said:
Don’t forget Leo in that mix. Turned 20 years of age in the last week but he just looks like a player. I have him pegged at the same level as Hunter Clark.

Good by foot, nice turn of pace and great acceleration, very elusive and doesn’t mind working his way out of congestion. Has plenty of natural footy IQ and plays with confidence.

I would rather Leo was trying to hit players on the lead than a heap of our more seasoned players. And I think his teammates feel the same way because you can see them trust him to be the one to move the ball forward.

Leo just needs to be stronger in the tackle contest and better defensively but I feel as confident that he will make that progression as I do about anybody else on the list.

When this kid gets to 50 games the lid will be off.
Click to expand...
He is like Clark who now sticks a tackle Leo just needs another two pre seasons to do the same. Clark now needs to build his tank to move into midfield.

Playing in defence you must stick tackles. Webster does it as he has an afl body. Hence why Hill should move back to a wing if he cannot get better when his contract is up get the hell out of StKilda.

Ross and Dunstan are not our future. Dunstan is gone and if no one wants Ross he stays....one club players are a good look. Same with Billings sounds like the club will decide his fate rather than the market.

Could we play Marshall CHB providing a chop our when Ryder needs a rest. When Ryder doesn't play bring Joyce in and Marshall plays ruck.

Or am I just putting a square peg on a round hole?

Also we need best available mid with pick 7. Clearly clubs let players go for a reason.
Membrey decision making
Crouch disposal
Butler inconsistent
Jones disposal injury concern
Hannas injury concern
Kent slow
Wood inconsistent
Mckernan SPUD

Swapping later picks for players no problem...but elite players come at a cost that is often well above the potential draft value in exchange.

Did Hawthorn win the Jaeger Omera trade? We certainly did








On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Xxxx66 said:
Seems bings form has gone off a cliff in the last month. Should we read anything into that?
Click to expand...


Probably playing sore or they are trying to be less predictable more than anything IMO. Not many players save themselves for their new side.
 
Sully111 said:
Roma needs to fix his goal kicking, otherwise it's no use playing him as a marking forward.

Would he work down back when he's not rucking?

Ideally he plays forward, but he needs to convert.
Click to expand...


It's tricky to work out his best spot. He's a good field mark but not great contested mark, he's kind of like a 2 meter midfielder where he does his best work running out to space and he makes good quick decisions. Maybe he could be the giant wingman Ratt's seems to get such a hard on about? If he plays back he probably needs to be the McEvoy drift across for the chop off type.
 
Sarcoidevo said:
Dunstan with that one kick in the last quarter into the forward line tells you everything you need to know as to why he is likely to be shopped

You just knew he wasn't going to get anywhere close to hitting a target .... in fact he kicked it to a 2 on 1 wherein the Geelong players were between where the ball went and his Saints target

He kicked it about 40m away from where it should have gone ....... absolute mind numbing

We ain't going to get any better with him and Ross in the side I am sorry to say ..... because their bad is crushingly bad and completely undoes any of their good especially against better teams

We are desperately crying out for speed and skills thru the midfield
Click to expand...
This is 2021 POTY worthy.
All players are a mix of good and bad, but with these two the bad is "crushingly bad" and it's become clear this year that it's not gonna change.
It might take a bit of time to replace their work rate but eliminating the crushingly bad moments will disappear simply by removing them since others just won't possess that level of terrible decision making.
 
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Xxxx66 said:
Seems bings form has gone off a cliff in the last month. Should we read anything into that?
Click to expand...
I think he just seems a bit cooked after a massive year and is ready for the off-season. Playing in a pretty ordinary team at that age would be challenging for such a young KPF. His first few months this season were incredible really. Looks like he's a bit tired, has lost some confidence and is a bit unsure with his positioning. I expect he'll be a dominant prospect again next year.
 
BigMonty said:
Also we need best available mid with pick 7. Clearly clubs let players go for a reason.
Membrey decision making
Crouch disposal
Butler inconsistent
Jones disposal injury concern
Hannas injury concern
Kent slow
Wood inconsistent
Mckernan SPUD

On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...

I agree that we DEFINITELY need to pick up a short term / long term mid with our pick, but to be fair:

Membrey - Occasionally slows down the play but adds a lot more value to the team on a very consistent basis.

Crouch - left Adelaide for a lot more reasons than disposal, I don’t think it had anything to do with skill. If it did, it’s not something that worries me. He’s a grunt player.

Kent - I think Kent is actually one of the fastest players on our list, perhaps besides Hilly.

As for Hanners, Jones, Butler, Wood, and Mckernan there are varying levels of skills and capabilities. Butler’s/Hanner’s best is AA, Jones best is A grade, Wood’s best is game changing and Mckernan is purely for back up. Yet they don’t all play at their best all the time obviously. Here’s the thing though, we didn’t give up really anything to bring any of them in. Arguably Hanners with his price tag but apart from that it was either late picks or salary. We had to get players from somewhere.

And don’t forget about all the other players we got who have helped us from other clubs (Steele, Howard, Ryder, Higgins) on the cheap.

Hopefully Jones, Butler, Wood, Crouch and Membrey continue to be or become impactful players in 2022. The others can be depth/delisted IMO.
 
Ducky Tie said:
Hard to speculate, but I don't think Marshall's body was quite right on the weekend. He didn't move well and didn't get off the ground. Stanley is also capable of playing great games once a month. He's got right on top of Grundy and other more capable rucks occasionally. Calls that write him off as a solo ruck are premature. We saw in 2019 what he could do at full fitness and with a consistent run in the ruck. We saw it last week too when he gave Hickey a bath. He's had a stop-start year with injury and has been thrown between forward and ruck pretty regularly. He's never going to be an absolutely dominant tap ruckman, but his strengths in the ruck are still prominent. With a good pre-season and an injury free run at it, I'm confident he'll bounce back next year, whether as a forward/ruck or a solo ruck.
Click to expand...


He was personally great but his clearance work was his asset and it didn't make the rest of the midfield better. As soon as Paddy comes out our midfield looks about 30% worse.
 
gringo2011 said:
He was personally great but his clearance work was his asset and it didn't make the rest of the midfield better. As soon as Paddy comes out our midfield looks about 30% worse.
Click to expand...
Yeah Ryder definitely elevates the clearance work of our midfield, but I don't think that negates the potential of Marshall as a ruckman in the future. Ryder is probably a top two ruckman of the past decade in terms of his tapwork and the service it provides. Unless Naitanui is planning on coming over, we're going to have to find a way to adapt as a midfield and play without the silver service that Ryder provides.

Marshall isn't an elite tap ruckman, but he showed in 2019 that he can provide a real contest against most ruckmen and get on top via clearance/his work around the ground. I think the solution has to be an improved midfield that doesn't need an elite tap ruckman to elevate them, rather than finding a ruckman who can cover up for our deficiencies.
 
Ducky Tie said:
Yeah Ryder definitely elevates the clearance work of our midfield, but I don't think that negates the potential of Marshall as a ruckman in the future. Ryder is probably a top two ruckman of the past decade in terms of his tapwork and the service it provides. Unless Naitanui is planning on coming over, we're going to have to find a way to adapt as a midfield and play without the silver service that Ryder provides.

Marshall isn't an elite tap ruckman, but he showed in 2019 that he can provide a real contest against most ruckmen and get on top via clearance/his work around the ground. I think the solution has to be an improved midfield that doesn't need an elite tap ruckman to elevate them, rather than finding a ruckman who can cover up for our deficiencies.
Click to expand...
Thats about right. Our midfield needs to be able to rove to a losing ruck. I think only the best can do that especially with the 6 man rule. But look at Nic nat and the midfield they have got and they are just on the 8 cusp and have guys like Kelly, shuey, Gaff Yeo etc. We all know how good Ryder is.
 
Grav said:
Still like us to have a look at Kieran Strachan from Adelaide as a back up ruckman/forward only 25yo. With a year being taught by Ryder the finer points it will give him that little bit of extra edge. Looking at his different highlights reckon he has a lot of upside.
Click to expand...
Dug a bit deeper and he was in the same class as P.Hunter at Adelaide, both being tutored by Sam Jacobs
 
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