List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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aussierulesrules

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Alison was underwhelming the moment is name was called out but I think part of the TV coverage was thrown off by the 2nd last name being added.

He still have a lot of development to go but watching him a few times, he looks fairly promising. He the type who does a few things every training session that makes you stop and take notice.
He’s a bust and it was a mistake to draft him, because we had so much key forward depth developing in the VFL.
 

BrutThough

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Was going by this paragraph here:

Seven clubs – Collingwood and Melbourne (two each), Essendon, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide, St Kilda and Sydney – have list spots available for the mid-season draft while other clubs will be able to send players with long-term injuries to the inactive list to open up further spots for the rookie selection meeting, which is scheduled for June 2.

Sounds like the mid-season draft is for those clubs who have a list spot free, while the rookie selection meeting is for clubs to add someone to their rookie list if they’ve got one or more on the LTI list.

Which makes sense, because if someone’s injured they’re still on your senior list, so if you added another to it from the midseason draft you’d have too many on your senior list.

But it’s not super-clear. The “mid-season draft” and “rookie selection meeting” might be the same thing.
I assumed they were the same thing since last time there was just the 1 draft and the players picked up where added to their rookie list.
 

Stewart66

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Edit: just saw that this kid is also 19 so available for the mid season draft.


Definitely worth keeping an eye on.

McKay another one worth looking at. Named in the best on the weekend.
Thought others were better make of that what you will .....stood a metre away from his old man &
Shane OSullivan .....agreed with best for Oakleigh ... ...Moyle ...will get drafted little doubt.
 

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bird_man

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He’s a bust and it was a mistake to draft him, because we had so much key forward depth developing in the VFL.
Not one person has suggested he is a bust.

I just found it very strange when we clearly had bigger needs.

We may not have anyone in the VFL but we've got a young key position player already forced to play on the wing and in defence or wherever he can plug a hole because their isn't an obvious spot for him. He may even find himself in the VFL this week.

King, Membrey, Marshall and Battle. There s depth there, now what do we have in the key position stocks?

And we are clearly lacking quality through the midfield.
 

BrutThough

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Not one person has suggested he is a bust.

I just found it very strange when we clearly had bigger needs.

We may not have anyone in the VFL but we've got a young key position player already forced to play on the wing and in defence or wherever he can plug a hole because their isn't an obvious spot for him. He may even find himself in the VFL this week.

King, Membrey, Marshall and Battle. There s depth there, now what do we have in the key position stocks?

And we are clearly lacking quality through the midfield.
Maybe we think he could replace Ryder's spot in a few years with Marshall being a full time ruck. Or that he's capable of becoming that extra defender we need.
 

pebblesofsand

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Allison is listed as 194cm (after reportedly having grown about 10cm in the year leading up to the draft), and his preferred position is 'high half forward'. Not sure that classifies as key position in the modern game.
196 cm (and still growing) - skinny but he and King are gonna be a handful next year in the key forward positions

"An injury to Sandringham's Chris Carey forced Matthew Allison into manning the key forward role in the second half, with the young Saint getting the better of his bigger-bodied opponents to bag his first pair of majors at VFL level."
 

Stewart66

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He’s a bust and it was a mistake to draft him, because we had so much key forward depth developing in the VFL.
Sorry Mate ...disagree ...😎


predraft .....was looking elsewhere in hope Myself ...I was wrong 😑

Very happy with him myself ...put on 7 kegs of muscle ...providing he avoids injury early in his career
really happy with him ...runs to right spots very very reliable kick for goal.
 

pebblesofsand

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He’s a bust and it was a mistake to draft him, because we had so much key forward depth developing in the VFL.
Key forward depth - rubbish.

Marshall will transition to full time ruck over the next two years then we have King and ??????????????????????? as KPP forwards. Thats why we picked up McKernan as a stop gap.

Membrey is not a KPP and despite what everyone on here seems to think, Battle is not the answer. If he was he'd be playing either CHF or CHB right now.
 

bird_man

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Key forward depth - rubbish.

Marshall will transition to full time ruck over the next two years then we have King and ??????????????????????? as KPP forwards. Thats why we picked up McKernan as a stop gap.

Membrey is not a KPP and despite what everyone on here seems to think, Battle is not the answer. If he was he'd be playing either CHF or CHB right now.
Membrey may be smaller than most key forwards but he does everything a key forward does. Leads up and down the ground, takes contested marks and kicks goals. He's not kicking goals roving off the pack. He's equal 4th in the comp for contested marks

Seems like the plan is to play 2 rucks so whether we have Ryder or not we will most likely have someone to go with Marshall.

Who do we have available after Howard as key defenders? Frawley? Carlisle? Is Clavirino is alive?

How confident are you in our midfield stocks?

Those two areas seem like much more of a need to me for our current 22 before we worry about depth
 
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aussierulesrules

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King, Membrey, Marshall and Battle .
They were all already playing in the seniors tho.

We had literally none after that and I’d classify Battle and Membrey as more “3rd tall” types, ideally.

For the midfield where you say we had more need we had

Steele
Crouch
Gresham
Jones
Ross
Hannebery
Clark
Dunstan
Bytel
Higgins
Byrnes
Hill
Billings
Sinclair

and were presumably going to continue to target Merrett/Kelly types through FA or trades.

If we think Allison is going to end up genuine key position size by the time he’s finished growing (bearing in mind he’d grown 10cm in 12 months and was in every likelihood still going), it makes a whole lot of sense to me that we grabbed him, if we think he’s good enough.
 

bird_man

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They were all already playing in the seniors tho.

We had literally none after that and I’d classify Battle and Membrey as more “3rd tall” types, ideally.

For the midfield where you say we had more need we had

Steele
Crouch
Gresham
Jones
Ross
Hannebery
Clark
Dunstan
Bytel
Higgins
Byrnes
Hill
Billings
Sinclair

and were presumably going to continue to target Merrett/Kelly types through FA or trades.

If we think Allison is going to end up genuine key position size by the time he’s finished growing (bearing in mind he’d grown 10cm in 12 months and was in every likelihood still going), it makes a whole lot of sense to me that we grabbed him if we think he’s good enough.
Not suggesting we don't have depth in the midfield but we clearly lack top end talent.

Steele the only a grader and then a couple with potential after that.

We aren't going to get Merret so the only option is to hit the draft.

And then there's the key defender stocks. We don't evej have enough quality to fill two spots at the moment let alone depth. Our answer was to bring in Frawley.

If it is depth we were after then to me it would make sense to find a cheaper option and use our first on a mid.

If he ends up being a gun I'll be first to put my hand up and say I was wrong but until then I'll be confused by the drafting. Not just Alison but Highmore too
 
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aussierulesrules

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Not suggesting we don't have depth in the midfield but we clearly lack top end talent.

Steele the only a grader and then a couple with potential after that.

We aren't going to get Merret so the only option is to hit the draft.

And then there's the key defender stocks. We don't evej have enough quality to fill two spots at the moment let alone depth. Our answer was to bring in Frawley.
And how likely are you to get “top end midfield talent” with a pick in the mid-late 20’s?

Someone so good that he’d push past enough of the others (including the young Bytel and Byrnes), that I listed, to be able to get a game in the near future? It’s probably a 5% chance or something. Like betting on a 20-1 pop.

It’s easy to say now that we won’t get Merrett, but were you saying it at the time we chose Allison? When we’d just won a final and finished 5th, despite fielding on average the 3rd youngest teams in the comp? At that time we were the exact team that a guy like Merrett would have been eyeing off, if he wanted out.

Obviously our key defender stocks are also thin, but you’re unlikely to get someone with a pick in the mid-20’s that’s going to hold down a key defensive position any time soon, so I can see why they opted for a temporary solution in Frawley (to go with Howard and Carlisle), plus the slightly undersized Highmore (who could and has played immediately, including on McDonald last week).

It sounds very much like we’re going to go hard at McCasey types (ie. ready to go), to fill that role for the longer term, which made sense, as we clearly felt like our window was open.

I fully expect that we’ll get a key defensive version of Allison this year though, to likewise develop in the VFL.
 

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bird_man

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And how likely are you to get “top end midfield talent” with a pick in the mid-late 20’s?

Someone so good that he’d push past enough of the others (including the young Bytel and Byrnes), that I listed, to be able to get a game in the near future? It’s probably a 5% chance or something. Like betting on a 20-1 pop.

It’s easy to say now that we won’t get Merrett, but were you saying it at the time we chose Allison? When we’d just won a final and finished 5th, despite fielding on average the 3rd youngest teams in the comp? At that time we were the exact team that a guy like Merrett would have been eyeing off, if he wanted out.

Obviously our key defender stocks are also thin, but you’re unlikely to get someone with a pick in the mid-20’s that’s going to hold down a key defensive position any time soon, so I can see why they opted for a temporary solution in Frawley (to go with Howard and Carlisle), plus the slightly undersized Highmore (who could and has played immediately, including on McDonald last week).

It sounds very much like we’re going to go hard at McCasey types (ie. ready to go), to fill that role for the longer term, which made sense, as we clearly felt like our window was open.

I fully expect that we’ll get a key defensive version of Allison this year though, to likewise develop in the VFL.
I'm not worried about finding someone that comes in and has an impact straight away. I'm looking at long term which is what the draft is about.

All well and good if we can bring in another key defender but they aren't always available. McAsey looks very likely to go to the Dogs.

Merrett was pick in the 20's by the way. It doesn't matter what position you go for, they will always be a risk in the draft.

It just makes more sense to me to take the risk on a player we desperately need rather than focusing on depth.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one by tue sounds of it.
 

bird_man

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I’m so ******* sick of these wasted picks. It’s bad enough our trades are busts but now our draft picks too. Then again I suppose we had the biggest draft bust in history already.
We haven't really had a lot of wasted picks since Liberatore took over.

He's got a pretty good record outside of the mature picks we took a few years back and even then we ended up with Wilkie and Hind is going pretty well now he's playing in his preferred position.
 

ScrappyDo

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And how likely are you to get “top end midfield talent” with a pick in the mid-late 20’s?

Someone so good that he’d push past enough of the others (including the young Bytel and Byrnes), that I listed, to be able to get a game in the near future? It’s probably a 5% chance or something. Like betting on a 20-1 pop.

It’s easy to say now that we won’t get Merrett, but were you saying it at the time we chose Allison? When we’d just won a final and finished 5th, despite fielding on average the 3rd youngest teams in the comp? At that time we were the exact team that a guy like Merrett would have been eyeing off, if he wanted out.

Obviously our key defender stocks are also thin, but you’re unlikely to get someone with a pick in the mid-20’s that’s going to hold down a key defensive position any time soon, so I can see why they opted for a temporary solution in Frawley (to go with Howard and Carlisle), plus the slightly undersized Highmore (who could and has played immediately, including on McDonald last week).

It sounds very much like we’re going to go hard at McCasey types (ie. ready to go), to fill that role for the longer term, which made sense, as we clearly felt like our window was open.

I fully expect that we’ll get a key defensive version of Allison this year though, to likewise develop in the VFL.
O'Driscoll, Berry and Poulter were all taken just after Allison. I'd say all of them are a possibility of jumping B&B if we had taken one.
 

aussierulesrules

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I'm not worried about finding someone that comes in and has an impact straight away. I'm looking at long term which is what the draft is about.

All well and good if we can bring in another key defender but they aren't always available. McAsey looks very likely to go to the Dogs.

Merrett was pick in the 20's by the way. It doesn't matter what position you go for, they will always be a risk in the draft.

It just makes more sense to me to take the risk on a player we desperately need rather than focusing on depth.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one by tue sounds of it.
So you’re looking only at the long term, yet you have a major problem with grabbing a guy who plays a role that we had literally no long term depth outside the best 22 for? That doesn’t add up.

At least down back we had Clavarino and Joyce (still relatively young), and were just about to add a guy in Highmore, who is 193cm and plays as the “3rd tall”, at worst.

For the forwardline we had no-one outside the current 22 as a long term prospect for depth in either the no.1, 2, or 3 marking roles.

Building a list for the future means having a balance of all positions and roles, and being prepared for worst-case-scenarios- like what happened to say Paddy, Robbo, etc- and having absolutely no-one at all developing in the VFL for either a key or 3rd forward role (should say King do another ACL or two at some point, or if Roma has to go back to full-time rucking) would be madness from a list management perspective, IMO.

It was a glaring need, from a long term list perspective.

I see it as fine to argue that you would have gone a different way, but to say as you did that it just “made no sense” doesn’t add up, when that was possibly the only position on the field we didn’t have anyone young developing for, for the long term (outside of the 22).
 
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aussierulesrules

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Not one person has suggested he is a bust.
I’m so ******* sick of these wasted picks. It’s bad enough our trades are busts but now our draft picks too
And if I could be bothered going back I reckon I could find another post or two along similar lines. Hence my saying it in the first place. If there weren’t I could tell from the vibe that it was only a matter of time before one or more obliged.

Duck. The sky is falling!
 
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Joffaboy

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He’s a bust and it was a mistake to draft him, because we had so much key forward depth developing in the VFL.
ARR, appreciate your posts, but to call an 18 y.o underdeveloped kid a bust after one preseason and zero opportunity is premature to say the least.

Edit: you were being facetious weren't you?
 

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