List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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bird_man

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2012
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So you’re looking only at the long term, yet you have a major problem with grabbing a guy who plays a role that we had literally no long term depth outside the best 22 for? That doesn’t add up.

At least down back we had Clavarino and Joyce (still relatively young), and were just about to add a guy in Highmore, who is 193cm and plays as the “3rd tall”, at worst.

For the forwardline we had no-one outside the current 22 as a long term prospect for depth in either the no.1, 2, or 3 marking roles.

Building a list for the future means having a balance of all positions and roles, and being prepared for worst-case-scenarios- like what happened to say Paddy, Robbo, etc- and having absolutely no-one at all developing in the VFL for either a key or 3rd forward role (should say King do another ACL or two at some point, or if Roma has to go back to full-time rucking) would be madness from a list management perspective, IMO.

It was a glaring need, from a long term list perspective.

I see it as fine to argue that you would have gone a different way, but to say as you did that it just “made no sense” doesn’t add up, when that was possibly the only position on the field we didn’t have anyone young developing for, for the long term (outside of the 22).
Sorry mate, but I'm not sure why that doesn't add up. I thought I explained it well enough.

We currently have 4 key forwards in our best 22 aged between 20 and 26.

If one of those key forwards were to down it's pretty dimple, we just stop playing one of them on the wing or plugging holes down back or wherever we can fit him.

We have one key defender in our 22 then Carlisle who comes in and out and is clearly not well regarded.

It seems pretty obvious to me where the "glaring need" is and it isn't in the forward half.

If we want depth then grab a young player late in the draft or from the VFL, but we desperately need a quality key defender and quality in the midfield going forward.

You might have more faith than me but I wouldn't be using Joyce or Clav as anyone that has a strong future at AFL level. Both have been on the list for a while and showed very little. If they were up to it they'd be in the side by now.

The reason neither are in the 22 isn't because we have good depth, it's because neither are up to it.

I understand building depth is part of list management but more importantly you need to have a well balanced quality best 22.

Our back line is an obvious weakness and has been for years. We've tried to prop it up with stop gaps, fill ins and guys from other clubs but it hasn't worked.
 
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El_Duderino

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Jul 26, 2006
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I was referring to Clav. Haven’t seen anything of Alison so don’t know if he’s a bust yet but clav has been there for what - three years now and no debut even talked about. And what’s the deal with Alabakis?
 

bird_man

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Jan 14, 2012
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I was referring to Clav. Haven’t seen anything of Alison so don’t know if he’s a bust yet but clav has been there for what - three years now and no debit even talked about. And what’s the deal with Alabakis?
Albakis isn't even on the main list and cost us nothing.

As for Clav, we can't be expected to nail every pick. We needed a key defender and went for one. It hasn't worked out so far and probably won't but there weren't a lot of guns taken around thar vicinity.

We landed Clark, Coffield and Paton with the other picks.

Clav is the only player close to a key defender we have taken in the draft since Goddard.
 

El_Duderino

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Albakis isn't even on the main list and cost us nothing.

As for Clav, we can't be expected to nail every pick. We needed a key defender and went for one. It hasn't worked out so far and probably won't but there weren't a lot of guns taken around thar vicinity.

We landed Clark, Coffield and Paton with the other picks.

Clav is the only player close to a key defender we have taken in the draft since Goddard.
fair enough.

i still know nothing about any of them but if they’ve been on the list for years without a debut it’s worrying. That’s all.
 

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gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
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So Richmond have found a great player in one the past 4 drafts and he's become best 22? Good for them.

We have high quality players from the past 4 drafts in our best 22 as well. I dont understand this 'woe is us' mentality that you have about our drafting in recent years when we have plenty of recently drafted players making us a better team.

They have plenty come through each year that they play. Good sides keep developing players. Even Geelong who are old as fu**. It's not woe is me just pointing out that we could do better. We still haven't found an out and out star and developed them either. Steele, Membrey and Howard would be our three best players this year and all come from other clubs.
 

BrutThough

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Oct 2, 2010
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They have plenty come through each year that they play. Good sides keep developing players. Even Geelong who are old as fu**. It's not woe is me just pointing out that we could do better. We still haven't found an out and out star and developed them either. Steele, Membrey and Howard would be our three best players this year and all come from other clubs.
We are continually developing players. Thats what 6 have players under 22 in our best 22 is. How is that not developing players but it is when Geelong or Richmond have players from the same drafts coming in and out of their side? And even if they aren't best 22 every week, we are doing similar with Bytel and Highmore so far this year. But with a young side to begin with, we chose to get some mature depth players in to support our already young group in case of injuries instead of plugging those gaps with speculative 18 year olds.

Steele and Membrey came to us as fringe/NEAFL players and we developed them into consistent, high quality AFL players.
 

tomjoad

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Jun 17, 2018
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There are a lot that could go this year so there will be some lucky guys because we can't dump them all at once. Hanners, Ryder likely retire, maybe Geary and Carlisle too. Joyce, Alabakis, Kent, Clav all in a bit of trouble I think. Seb Ross probably goes as a FA maybe Billings as well. Webster and Frawley could possibly go, don't know if Frawley got 2 years though as is with Wood and Mc Kernan. That's too many to replace with 2 pick in the first 3 rounds. Probably need some average FAs and hit mid season/ rookie drafts.
I was hoping - even before we'd started so appallingly - that we'd fill out our spots with this year's mid season & rookie drafts with some decent kids that had been overlooked and work from there. Our problem is STILL skills. We need guys that know how to USE a football. You would think it would be a pre-requisite for any club, but somehow it has flown under the radar for the last ten years.
 

bird_man

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I was hoping - even before we'd started so appallingly - that we'd fill out our spots with this year's mid season & rookie drafts with some decent kids that had been overlooked and work from there. Our problem is STILL skills. We need guys that know how to USE a football. You would think it would be a pre-requisite for any club, but somehow it has flown under the radar for the last ten years.
Most of our ball butchers seem to be the older players though.

Clark, Paton, Coffield, Battle, Bytel, Highmore are all pretty good users of the footy

Gresham is one that needs to improve his kicking.
 

tomjoad

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Most of our ball butchers seem to be the older players though.

Clark, Paton, Coffield, Battle, Bytel, Highmore are all pretty good users of the footy

Gresham is one that needs to improve his kicking.
That's sort of what I was getting at...without being clear enough. The young guys we have are good, but it seems the over 25 bracket of players are generally pretty poor. It has cost us...and needs to be rectified. I applauded Ratts that time when he said that if you can't kick the ball cleanly, then you can't play at St.Kilda...but I think that was brushed under the rug pretty quickly.
 

bird_man

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That's sort of what I was getting at...without being clear enough. The young guys we have are good, but it seems the over 25 bracket of players are generally pretty poor. It has cost us...and needs to be rectified. I applauded Ratts that time when he said that if you can't kick the ball cleanly, then you can't play at St.Kilda...but I think that was brushed under the rug pretty quickly.
Injuries haven't helped this year. Normally we wouldn't have guys like McKenzie or Webster in the side who are both notorious for turning the footy over.

I guess it's hard to totally replace everyone in that time but he did a pretty good job of it last year, especially the way he backed the back 6 who were all mostly young but good users while guys like Savage (shut eyes and kick long), McKenzie and Webster couldn't get a game.
 

FQFjt

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Sep 11, 2015
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Most of our ball butchers seem to be the older players though.

Clark, Paton, Coffield, Battle, Bytel, Highmore are all pretty good users of the footy

Gresham is one that needs to improve his kicking.
Gresham's kicking is easily his one huge flaw. No elite midfielders in the comp kick like he does. Not sure it's fixable at this point though. He's still more than good enough given his other elite attributes, but I suspect kicking will stop him from going to the next level.
 

bird_man

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Jan 14, 2012
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Article has Cerra,as well as Darcy and Tucker as possible players who could return to Victoria
Wouldn't be surprised if this is just Sumich having a crack at Freo.

He had sour grapes after his interview for the Freo coaching role apparently and has had a few digs at them since.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
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Injuries haven't helped this year. Normally we wouldn't have guys like McKenzie or Webster in the side who are both notorious for turning the footy over.

I guess it's hard to totally replace everyone in that time but he did a pretty good job of it last year, especially the way he backed the back 6 who were all mostly young but good users while guys like Savage (shut eyes and kick long), McKenzie and Webster couldn't get a game.

Webster gets talked up for his kicking on here. He's been poor this year though. DMac has more been a poor decision maker but looks better this year.
 

gringo2011

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Nov 12, 2011
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Gresham's kicking is easily his one huge flaw. No elite midfielders in the comp kick like he does. Not sure it's fixable at this point though. He's still more than good enough given his other elite attributes, but I suspect kicking will stop him from going to the next level.

Plenty of "elite" mids are sh*t kicks.
 

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