List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part III

[DougalHoward]

Generally what happens with Billings is that we play him forward and he doesn’t play well so we move him to the middle. Then after a while in the middle he doesn’t play well and we try him forward again and he doesn’t play well, rinse and repeat. After 9 years you are what you are I’m honestly hoping we don’t waste too much time with him this year.

If he gets his body right, a clear role and some confidence who knows

 

[gringo2011]

If he gets his body right, a clear role and some confidence who knows

He looks like a guy who over thinks his footy. If Lyon can really clearly define his role and responsibilities he could be a gun still. He's kind of the Gerald Whateley of footy. He's a neurotic uptight type of player that isn't particularly creative but rigid and solid. If you could find the right role for him he's still got star potential. Perhaps having boundaries suits his temperament. I think that was the Dempster sort of personality type back in the day.

 

[stfan]

It's going to be interesting what Lyon does with Wood and McKenzie, with Hill most probably going back to the wing and a heap of kids fighting for a spot and the most interesting thing is what he does with Billings if he can stay fit the whole season.

Yes it will be interesting. Especially how Lyon tries to use Hill. The problem with Hill though is that he is purely an offensive players, and this his offensive game tens to wilt if under too much pressure.

So if Hill is played on the wing, then that is counter to how the "modern" wing positions have been played by teams recently.

That is that the wingers need to be able to run back to support defence as well as push forward to be an offensive threat.

Both Wood and Dmac did this superbly well. And as others have noted Wood was a good offensive threat when he pushed forward. But he was also very good supporting our backline.

I doubt that Hill can support the backline well. It is just not suit his skillset and makeup. Dmac and Wood are both really hard at it.

Nasiah too is currently a very outside player, and so he will need to embrace defensive aspects more.

I think Lyon will try and play Hill forward of the ball more, more HF than wing, but still covering a lot of territory.

 

[OxSaint]

Clearly the review didn't go far enough, there are still some numpties in important positions at the club.

I think he is seen as a future coach. Buckley spoke highly of him as a leader and future coach. I can’t imagine the playing is our primary want from him.

Not every coach has to have been a star player.

 

[Premium]

Billings needs to play as a lead up marking forward. Don’t push him high up the ground. Keep him closer to goals.
Get him to play that Toby Greene/Orazio Fantasia/Jamie Elliot type role. That’s where he is best suited but for whatever reason we play him up along the wing where he racks up 20+ nothing disposals cos he’s not dangerous and doesn’t take the game on like a Gresh/Sinclair

It will be good to see if Lyon can get the best out of Billings.

 

[DougalHoward]

I think Lyon will try and play Hill forward of the ball more, more HF than wing, but still covering a lot of territory.

 

[MrFoster]

Generally what happens with Billings is that we play him forward and he doesn’t play well so we move him to the middle. Then after a while in the middle he doesn’t play well and we try him forward again and he doesn’t play well, rinse and repeat. After 9 years you are what you are I’m honestly hoping we don’t waste too much time with him this year.

With the shocking forward entries we’ve had in the last 9 years or so, think Billings can be excused for under performing as a deep forward, the challenge is how to fix our forward structure and make every of our forwards dangerous all the time, not just kick to King in a big pack and hope stuff Ratten is so fond of.

2013 Draft Profile: Jack Billings

Jack Billings (Oakleigh Chargers) Height: 183 cm Weight: 78 kg Position: Forward/Midfielder Player comparison: Isaac Smith/Jamie Elliot Strengths: Marking, Positioning, Strength Weaknesses: Question marks whether he can play as a full-time midfielder Jack Billings has had top ten draft pick...

central.rookieme.com

Reading his draft profile, marking, position and forward craft is his strength, then we’ve played him out of his position the entire time, we need to use him as a leading forward or isolate him one out deep forward with his defender. We’ve had a crowded/dis-functional forward line for 10 years.. time to fix this Ross!!

 

[MrFoster]

I think Hill will still run up and down the wing, to provide that link between defence and forward. The key is to leave enough space on the wing for him to operate in, and set up well forward and behind the ball so he has targets to hit when running forward. When we have the ball in our back 50, he then becomes a outlet.

 

[Grav]

The decent on ballers run around 6:00 for 2k, so Stocker is about 200m off the pace in a 5 lap race, suggesting his PB is way off the standard required.

I don’t mind the idea of picking him up, but if we do decide to, I would be absolutely pumping the kms into his legs and - as was mentioned earlier - getting him to shed a couple of kilos to help him with his outside game.

Sinclair, Wood, Ross, McKenzie and Butter all run around six minutes. Maybe get Stocker to run all summer with a couple of those guys and see how much he improves his times.

He certainly has the skills, we just need him to sort out his tank and keep on top of his mental health issues, and we may end up with a quality player for a bargain price.

His 2021 highlights don’t look too bad, evidently missed 4 months of pre season prior to 2022 & missing that much time you would think he would be a long way back on a new coaches radar.
Hard nut, good football brain & nice accurate kick, looking at his 2021 highlights he reminded me of Hunter Clark, if we get his head right we might just have a winner.

 

[MrFoster]

His 2021 highlights don’t look too bad, evidently missed 4 months of pre season prior to 2022 & missing that much time you would think he would be a long way back on a new coaches radar.
Hard nut, good football brain & nice accurate kick, looking at his 2021 highlights he reminded me of Hunter Clark, if we get his head right we might just have a winner.

He is always behind Cripps, kennedy, Hewett as inside mid at Carlton.. Also missed 2020 covid season due to mental health, then had no pre-season for 2022.. Can’t really impress as a mid by playing a back pocket role on the most dangerous small forward. Their loss is our gain, hope he really knuckles down and builds a bigger tank.. he has every chance with Harves, Lenny as mentors, along with Misson as head of high performance. If we can look at Riley Collier Dawkins as well, along with Bytel, Owens, Winghager, Brynes, NWm, we have a good little group of young mids.. can even trade down to nab a key forward (Jefferson?) + a forward/mid combo (Hotton/George) who will be long gone before our 2nd pick #no 28.

 

[Significant]

Probably moving the conversation more towards the 2023 PreSeason thread, but I'd play McKenzie and Wood as wings, Hill as the +1 at contest from high half forward like that Hawks game.

Some of the most important positions in AFL now are that high half forward role, and you can see it in the amount of kilometres and workrate blokes like Neal-Bullen, Miers, Bolton, Spargo, etc. have and how important they are to ball movement and structure.

Not sure what you do with Billings. Agree with comments that he is a forward, leave him there. He has been severely impacted by the push towards frontal pressure across the competition, as he doesn't have that high end speed which is so important in footy nowadays.

Ideally, he should fit in to that high half forward role.

 

[borderbarry]

I dont know if Hill will be picked first on the Wing. We already have Wood and McKenzie doing a good job on the Wing with Wanganeen-Milera also very promising.

 

[stfan]

Probably moving the conversation more towards the 2023 PreSeason thread, but I'd play McKenzie and Wood as wings, Hill as the +1 at contest from high half forward like that Hawks game.

Some of the most important positions in AFL now are that high half forward role, and you can see it in the amount of kilometres and workrate blokes like Neal-Bullen, Miers, Bolton, Spargo, etc. have and how important they are to ball movement and structure.

Not sure what you do with Billings. Agree with comments that he is a forward, leave him there. He has been severely impacted by the push towards frontal pressure across the competition, as he doesn't have that high end speed which is so important in footy nowadays.

Ideally, he should fit in to that high half forward role.

Yes that is what I have been posting for a while. Dmac and Wood both play the modern wing role perfectly.

Hill is not upto the defensive aspect of being able to push back and support the defenders.

High half forward is where Hill is currently best suited.


Where they play Nasiah will will be interesting.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Probably moving the conversation more towards the 2023 PreSeason thread, but I'd play McKenzie and Wood as wings, Hill as the +1 at contest from high half forward like that Hawks game.

Some of the most important positions in AFL now are that high half forward role, and you can see it in the amount of kilometres and workrate blokes like Neal-Bullen, Miers, Bolton, Spargo, etc. have and how important they are to ball movement and structure.

Not sure what you do with Billings. Agree with comments that he is a forward, leave him there. He has been severely impacted by the push towards frontal pressure across the competition, as he doesn't have that high end speed which is so important in footy nowadays.

Ideally, he should fit in to that high half forward role.

That sounds about right. Billings is broken in several different ways and his body is also starting to let him down regularly. I can't see how he survives a RTB regime.

 

[luca77]

Yes that is what I have been posting for a while. Dmac and Wood both play the modern wing role perfectly.

Hill is not upto the defensive aspect of being able to push back and support the defenders.

High half forward is where Hill is currently best suited.


Where they play Nasiah will will be interesting.

If Ross and his teammates use him well and he's causing damage it doesn't matter as much - the oppo will have to put time into him.
Also there are two wings - I don't think they both need to be the same type. One can be offensive, the other defensive.
I'm not against the high hff option, but happy for Ross to use him on the wing early. If it fails, it fails. Ross would know better than us, having coached him and all.

 

[Mowman]

That sounds about right. Billings is broken in several different ways and his body is also starting to let him down regularly. I can't see how he survives a RTB regime.

And you reckon I bang on about Leathlean

 

[CaptainRisky]

With the shocking forward entries we’ve had in the last 9 years or so, think Billings can be excused for under performing as a deep forward, the challenge is how to fix our forward structure and make every of our forwards dangerous all the time, not just kick to King in a big pack and hope stuff Ratten is so fond of.

2013 Draft Profile: Jack Billings

Jack Billings (Oakleigh Chargers) Height: 183 cm Weight: 78 kg Position: Forward/Midfielder Player comparison: Isaac Smith/Jamie Elliot Strengths: Marking, Positioning, Strength Weaknesses: Question marks whether he can play as a full-time midfielder Jack Billings has had top ten draft pick...

central.rookieme.com

Reading his draft profile, marking, position and forward craft is his strength, then we’ve played him out of his position the entire time, we need to use him as a leading forward or isolate him one out deep forward with his defender. We’ve had a crowded/dis-functional forward line for 10 years.. time to fix this Ross!!

What his draft profile said 9 years ago has nothing to do with what type of player he is now , totally irreverent

 

[ScrappyDo]

And you reckon I bang on about Leathlean

I do

 

[L_W_P]

I don't know if Wood gets a game under Ross.

His best is great but one thing that Ross values really highly is consistency, especially with execution.

As big a tank as Mason has, and for all the 20+ touch, 8+ mark efforts, those random worm burners and absolute shank set shots could cost him.

Same with Gresham. I think he's someone that will settle forward for the ball for Ross but if he keeps spraying his field kicking at important times he's going to be held accountable.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't know if Wood gets a game under Ross.

His best is great but one thing that Ross values really highly is consistency, especially with execution.

As big a tank as Mason has, and for all the 20+ touch, 8+ mark efforts, those random worm burners and absolute shank set shots could cost him.

Same with Gresham. I think he's someone that will settle forward for the ball for Ross but if he keeps spraying his field kicking at important times he's going to be held accountable.

That was always Wood's issue when he was played as a forward at North, he's worked pretty well out on the wing.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I don't know if Wood gets a game under Ross.

His best is great but one thing that Ross values really highly is consistency, especially with execution.

As big a tank as Mason has, and for all the 20+ touch, 8+ mark efforts, those random worm burners and absolute shank set shots could cost him.

Same with Gresham. I think he's someone that will settle forward for the ball for Ross but if he keeps spraying his field kicking at important times he's going to be held accountable.

I'm very comfortable with both of those things.

 

[Sun Ra]

I'm very comfortable with both of those things.

Wood Duck lives though.

 

[triggering bro]

Yes to Stocker, no to Two-Mums

Matt Walsh likes this post.

 

[Remboy]

I don't know if Wood gets a game under Ross.

His best is great but one thing that Ross values really highly is consistency, especially with execution.

As big a tank as Mason has, and for all the 20+ touch, 8+ mark efforts, those random worm burners and absolute shank set shots could cost him.

Same with Gresham. I think he's someone that will settle forward for the ball for Ross but if he keeps spraying his field kicking at important times he's going to be held accountable.

Ross didn't seems to have a problem with Gilbert. He sprayed it as much as anyone.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't know if Wood gets a game under Ross.

His best is great but one thing that Ross values really highly is consistency, especially with execution.

As big a tank as Mason has, and for all the 20+ touch, 8+ mark efforts, those random worm burners and absolute shank set shots could cost him.

Same with Gresham. I think he's someone that will settle forward for the ball for Ross but if he keeps spraying his field kicking at important times he's going to be held accountable.

Lyon was always effort over execution. He didn't mind if you kicked like a mule as long as you went at 100%.