List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Max the great

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Walked past Bytel and Byrnes in the corridor when I was leaving 5 mins before the end of the game game. I actually asked them “what happened there, boys?” as I passed them.

They are both a good size. We need to bring Bytel back and give Byrnes another go if /when he is over his injury.
When I was leaving before HT I was inside the stadium walking down the stairs and saw ROMA walking with his gf on the outside of the stadium through those steele screens and said 'hey Rowan ask for a trade' he was pretty stunned. Not something I would usually do... Emotion got the better off me.
For his sake getting traded would be great but I'm selfish so I want him to stay. Just unfortunate he will never see a premiership. A bit like me.
 

Max the great

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Yes Gringo ...we have 3- 4 picks great opportunity to view kids over TAC coming weeks.


Been disappointing start , would love to trade for a Taranto but in reality we need to go the draft all year.
Taranto? Another average mid that will never win us anything.. great. Give me Hopper instead. Way more potential.
 

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tomjoad

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Whatever happens this year I see a significant cull at year end. Not all based on performance, some just end of career like Geary, Frawley, Carlisle and Ryder. But others I can see being shown the door are Kent and McKenzie. That's why we, out of all the teams need to nail the midseason draft to restock and get some match fitness into some young blood for the 2022 season. It's not that I am down on the existing list, with big outs like Geary, Ryder, Marshall, Paton and Gresham its just that I think the footy gods are telling us to start building for the next season already. I predict by the end of round 6 we will be 1-5 and the season effectively over. Am I being too pessamistic?
Nope, very realistic.
 

aussierulesrules

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Up to 4 now that Gresh is out for the season.

1 we never filled, 1 from Robbo retiring then 2 if we put Paton and Gresh on the long term injury lists.
4 in total, but going by that article, I think the breakdown is that we’ll have 1 pick in the midseason draft and could then have up to 3 in the rookie draft, that follows the completion of the midseason draft.
 

Virgin Dog

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Battle should look at moving on wasting his career at the moment and we get 1st round for him
Am I right in thinking Battle is pretty good one on one? I watch a reasonable amount of the Saints and got that impression, but you guys would know him better than I would. Pretty keen on the Dogs finding a good lockdown defender, even an undersized one, as I feel we've struggled against good KPFs ever since Morris retired, and would love to see us look for someone similar.

Does Battle actually meet that description or am I wrong? Also, what do you feel are the chances of the Saints moving him on? I figured with Wilkie and Highmore, it might have made him gettable, but could be wishful thinking
 

aussierulesrules

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Am I right in thinking Battle is pretty good one on one? I watch a reasonable amount of the Saints and got that impression, but you guys would know him better than I would. Pretty keen on the Dogs finding a good lockdown defender, even an undersized one, as I feel we've struggled against good KPFs ever since Morris retired, and would love to see us look for someone similar.

Does Battle actually meet that description or am I wrong? Also, what do you feel are the chances of the Saints moving him on? I figured with Wilkie and Highmore, it might have made him gettable, but could be wishful thinking
I’d say there’s very little chance of us wanting to move him on and there’s certainly no chance that we’d get a first rounder for him if we did

If we felt that he was really well suited to a lockdown key defensive role I dare say we’d have been playing him there, when both Frawley and Carlisle were out of the side.

The sort of role he’d be best suited to back there is the sort of role that both Wilkie and Highmore are best suited to.
 

Mat Mann

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Am I right in thinking Battle is pretty good one on one? I watch a reasonable amount of the Saints and got that impression, but you guys would know him better than I would. Pretty keen on the Dogs finding a good lockdown defender, even an undersized one, as I feel we've struggled against good KPFs ever since Morris retired, and would love to see us look for someone similar.

Does Battle actually meet that description or am I wrong? Also, what do you feel are the chances of the Saints moving him on? I figured with Wilkie and Highmore, it might have made him gettable, but could be wishful thinking
don't think we'd have any plans at moving him on, I'd play him fwd, has a nice balance between strength and maneuverability, and a beautiful set shot routine. In saying that, played back in 2019 and did a dam good job.

has too many attributes to waste away as a KPD IMO
 

Virgin Dog

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I’d say there’s very little chance of us wanting to move him on and there’s certainly no chance that we’d get a first rounder for him if we did

If we felt that he was really well suited to a lockdown key defensive role I dare say we’d have been playing him there, when both Frawley and Carlisle were out of the side.

The sort of role he’d be best suited to back there is the sort of role that both Wilkie and Highmore are best suited to.
don't think we'd have any plans at moving him on, I'd play him fwd, has a nice balance between strength and maneuverability, and a beautiful set shot routine. In saying that, played back in 2019 and did a dam good job.

has too many attributes to waste away as a KPD IMO
Yeah wouldn't have thought the Saints would want to move him on. I'm a big fan of his from what I've seen, but that would usually suggest the club sees positives too. Reminds me a little of Brander at the Eagles where they're obviously too talented to let go, but it's also difficult to find the right spot for them at the present time. Definitely wouldn't wanna part with a player like that for anything less than overs
 

Mowman

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Am I right in thinking Battle is pretty good one on one? I watch a reasonable amount of the Saints and got that impression, but you guys would know him better than I would. Pretty keen on the Dogs finding a good lockdown defender, even an undersized one, as I feel we've struggled against good KPFs ever since Morris retired, and would love to see us look for someone similar.

Does Battle actually meet that description or am I wrong? Also, what do you feel are the chances of the Saints moving him on? I figured with Wilkie and Highmore, it might have made him gettable, but could be wishful thinking
Has played down back and done well . imo he is a forward who is capable of 45 - 55 goals a year
But we play him every position but where we should, we would get a mid to late 1st for him imo
he is frustrated with what is happening, his development has been poor last couple years by the club
 

BrutThough

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4 in total, but going by that article, I think the breakdown is that we’ll have 1 pick in the midseason draft and could then have up to 3 in the rookie draft, that follows the completion of the midseason draft.
I don't think there is anything that follows the midseason draft. We have haven't moved Paton and Gresh to the LTI injury lists yet but we could if we wanted which would open up 2 more spots for us.
 

gringo2011

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Taranto? Another average mid that will never win us anything.. great. Give me Hopper instead. Way more potential.

Taranto is good but he looks like he's given up. Hopper looks a gun though. Either would do me but we really have to stop ignoring the draft. Richmond and Geelong have more youth developing than us. Wasting picks on guys like Hind and Parker who we just threw away after having a look at them is crazy too.

Highmore looks okay but why we needed another not quite KPB when we can't find spots for players like Battle and then chasing Allison who looks another Mason Wood type, seems weird recruiting.

From our developing youth we really only have Clavarino- who will be lucky to play a game, Leo Connolly- a running back, Byrnes- injured but looks good, Bytel- looks promising but not really getting anything but a toe in at the moment, still our most promising. Then Alabakis who is wildly speculative coming from basketball and starting a fair way back. All the rest are older or known quantities, several are likely delisted next year.

King, Coffield and Clark can probably go in the youth brigade but have been in the system for 4 and 3 years respectively and are already cemented in our best 22.
 

gringo2011

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Has played down back and done well . imo he is a forward who is capable of 45 - 55 goals a year
But we play him every position but where we should, we would get a mid to late 1st for him imo
he is frustrated with what is happening, his development has been poor last couple years by the club
No-one would give a first rounder for him. He'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick from anyone. We've played him so badly he's lost all his value. You can see him doing a Tom Lynch and getting seduced by another club and asking to get a trade done which doesn't favour us.
 

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bird_man

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No-one would give a first rounder for him. He'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick from anyone. We've played him so badly he's lost all his value. You can see him doing a Tom Lynch and getting seduced by another club and asking to get a trade done which doesn't favour us.
We wouldn't get a first but suggesting we'd be lucky to get a 3rd is ridiculous Gringo
 

gringo2011

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Nope, very realistic.

There are a lot that could go this year so there will be some lucky guys because we can't dump them all at once. Hanners, Ryder likely retire, maybe Geary and Carlisle too. Joyce, Alabakis, Kent, Clav all in a bit of trouble I think. Seb Ross probably goes as a FA maybe Billings as well. Webster and Frawley could possibly go, don't know if Frawley got 2 years though as is with Wood and Mc Kernan. That's too many to replace with 2 pick in the first 3 rounds. Probably need some average FAs and hit mid season/ rookie drafts.
 

gringo2011

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We wouldn't get a first but suggesting we'd be lucky to get a 3rd is ridiculous Gringo

Why, he looks good to us because we saw some form last year as a potential KP. If you watched him in 2021 he looks like he's not even AFL standard. He's running around with no direction. We have devalued him substantially. If he was at another club no-one would be hoping to get him, especially for a high draft pick.
 

BrutThough

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Taranto is good but he looks like he's given up. Hopper looks a gun though. Either would do me but we really have to stop ignoring the draft. Richmond and Geelong have more youth developing than us. Wasting picks on guys like Hind and Parker who we just threw away after having a look at them is crazy too.

Highmore looks okay but why we needed another not quite KPB when we can't find spots for players like Battle and then chasing Allison who looks another Mason Wood type, seems weird recruiting.

From our developing youth we really only have Clavarino- who will be lucky to play a game, Leo Connolly- a running back, Byrnes- injured but looks good, Bytel- looks promising but not really getting anything but a toe in at the moment, still our most promising. Then Alabakis who is wildly speculative coming from basketball and starting a fair way back. All the rest are older or known quantities, several are likely delisted next year.

King, Coffield and Clark can probably go in the youth brigade but have been in the system for 4 and 3 years respectively and are already cemented in our best 22.
So we can't included our highly talented young players as youth because they are already making best 22 but other teams who have young players the same age who aren't close to playing at AFL level are somehow more advanced? That makes no sense.

And saying Alison, a key position player who grown maybe 6cm in the past year and wasnt able to play any football because of covid, is somehow on the way to being a bust 3 rounds into his first year?

This is all over the place.
 

bird_man

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Why, he looks good to us because we saw some form last year as a potential KP. If you watched him in 2021 he looks like he's not even AFL standard. He's running around with no direction. We have devalued him substantially. If he was at another club no-one would be hoping to get him, especially for a high draft pick.
Because he's a contracted 22 year old key position player that has shown plenty of potential either end of the ground.

He may be struggling right now but you don't get those types for a 3rd round pick or less.

Even Tom Lynch got us a 2nd round pick and he only played 6 games
 
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gringo2011

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So we can't included our highly talented young players as youth because they are already making best 22 but other teams who have young players the same age who aren't close to playing at AFL level are somehow more advanced? That makes no sense.

And saying Alison, a key position player who grown maybe 6cm in the past year and wasnt able to play any football because of covid, is somehow on the way to being a bust 3 rounds into his first year?

This is all over the place.

I didn't say he's a bust, just a weird selection. He's sort of Josh Battle more than King or maybe Mason Wood like a bit. One thing we don't lack. He was hardly an overwhelmingly obvious choice. I didn't even know who he was and I follow the draft potentials. You can count our best 22 youth but we don't have many regardless. We have deliberately chosen mature talent for a couple of years and generally we seem to delist them as soon as we can. Wilkie is the exception.
 

gringo2011

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Because he's a contracted 22 year old key position player that has shown plenty of potential either end of the ground.

He may be struggling right now but you don't get those types for a 3rd round pick or less.

Even Tom Lynch got us a 2nd round pick and he only played 6 games

I disagree, he wouldn't be worth much if you shopped him. Maybe at the end of last year he would have been worth that but if you assessed his form this year he would have dropped substantially. You'd rather chase one of GWS' talls like Finlayson for a 3rd then. He had some proper potential too but has dropped back.
 

Yawkey way

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I disagree, he wouldn't be worth much if you shopped him. Maybe at the end of last year he would have been worth that but if you assessed his form this year he would have dropped substantially. You'd rather chase one of GWS' talls like Finlayson for a 3rd then. He had some proper potential too but has dropped back.
As it stands battle is a late second early third imo.

I wouldn’t trade him he’s too talented and should have a place in our forward line or defence nailed down. I think the saints will play better over the next few weeks but still end up 1 - 5. That should see younger players actually getting a decent run in the right positions.
 

BrutThough

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I didn't say he's a bust, just a weird selection. He's sort of Josh Battle more than King or maybe Mason Wood like a bit. One thing we don't lack. He was hardly an overwhelmingly obvious choice. I didn't even know who he was and I follow the draft potentials. You can count our best 22 youth but we don't have many regardless. We have deliberately chosen mature talent for a couple of years and generally we seem to delist them as soon as we can. Wilkie is the exception.
He's more 195-196cm now than Battle and Wood who are 192-193cm. We've drafted Alison with the hope he's here for the next 10 years and we also picked him up before adding Wood - who we would only intend on having round for a very short amount of time - to the list. He might not have been a high profile selection, but being a media darling pre draft means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Our recruiters like what they saw and the potential he has to develop into as either a forward or back so picked him knowing he would take a few years.

And our recruiters outright said a few days before the draft in the Herald Sun that we would be drafting key position players this year so hindsight says we shouldn't have surprised surprised when we didnt take one of the mids this board was talking about draft day.

We currently have 6 players who are 22 and under who are best 22. That's a high number for a team coming off a semi final appearance. Who cares if someone has 12 under 22 players running around in their reserves. It doesnt make our players future's any less appealing. They dont give anything to the team who has the most youth on their list.

We've taken mature talent in 2 of our last 3 drafts and delisted those who weren't up to scratch, the way the entire AFL system is designed to operate. They make you draft X amount of players a year then delist X amount of players a year as well. Whether they are mature aged or u18 players, a certain amount of players will be delisted as soon as their first contract is up and those taken with late picks are more likely to be out of the system quicker than early picks. Ours happened to be matured aged players last year because 2 years ago we used our late speculative picks on some mature aged rather than 18 year olds. The hardly suggests we are picking up mature talent to immediately delist them. It just means our late picks didnt work out the same way a majority of late picks dont work out.
 

gringo2011

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He's more 195-196cm now than Battle and Wood who are 192-193cm. We've drafted Alison with the hope he's here for the next 10 years and we also picked him up before adding Wood - who we would only intend on having round for a very short amount of time - to the list. He might not have been a high profile selection, but being a media darling pre draft means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Our recruiters like what they saw and the potential he has to develop into as either a forward or back so picked him knowing he would take a few years.

And our recruiters outright said a few days before the draft in the Herald Sun that we would be drafting key position players this year so hindsight says we shouldn't have surprised surprised when we didnt take one of the mids this board was talking about draft day.

We currently have 6 players who are 22 and under who are best 22. That's a high number for a team coming off a semi final appearance. Who cares if someone has 12 under 22 players running around in their reserves. It doesnt make our players future's any less appealing. They dont give anything to the team who has the most youth on their list.

We've taken mature talent in 2 of our last 3 drafts and delisted those who weren't up to scratch, the way the entire AFL system is designed to operate. They make you draft X amount of players a year then delist X amount of players a year as well. Whether they are mature aged or u18 players, a certain amount of players will be delisted as soon as their first contract is up and those taken with late picks are more likely to be out of the system quicker than early picks. Ours happened to be matured aged players last year because 2 years ago we used our late speculative picks on some mature aged rather than 18 year olds. The hardly suggests we are picking up mature talent to immediately delist them. It just means our late picks didnt work out the same way a majority of late picks dont work out.

We'll just have to hope that him and Highmore are guns then. I reckon you want one gun and one 100+ gamer at least out of every draft to keep up improvement. The less access you get and the more speculative you get the less likely that is to happen. Even Geelong and Richmond seem to bring in a new batch of kids every year. Balta came in the same draft as Clark and Coffield and is already an established star. They also got Higgins who they couldn't keep but they had limited access and still took two high quality players and in Balta's case they played him until he was good.

I still have concerns about our list management and drafting although it's outstandingly better than it was under Richo. Part of the way we are patching up now is damage from the past too.
 

Saintbloke

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Just out of curiosity, what happened with Jack Bell the young ruck/ forward? He was delisted in 2020, but apparently had some upside and plenty of development yet.
 

FQFjt

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So we can't included our highly talented young players as youth because they are already making best 22 but other teams who have young players the same age who aren't close to playing at AFL level are somehow more advanced? That makes no sense.

And saying Alison, a key position player who grown maybe 6cm in the past year and wasnt able to play any football because of covid, is somehow on the way to being a bust 3 rounds into his first year?

This is all over the place.
Allison is listed as 194cm (after reportedly having grown about 10cm in the year leading up to the draft), and his preferred position is 'high half forward'. Not sure that classifies as key position in the modern game.
 

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