List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

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bird_man · Jun 1, 2021

George said:
Yep and Paton, Clark, Coffield & Long all were having better seasons than he was so I don't understand how you could play him in that position and then criticise the club for trading him because of the depth we had at that position. You can't expect the club to have foresight to the level of knowing Long & Coffield would have form slumps and Paton would not play a game this year due to a broken leg.

I understand criticising the club when we let a player go that we could all see clearly had talent, but this is kind of ridiculous mate.

I would have liked to have seen him get a go there before Savage.

We definitely could have given him a go there when Long was suspended and he may well have taken his spot.

It is what it is though and unfortunately we could not have got any more from Essendon than what we did.

Similar to us bringing in Butler, Roberton, Membrey etc.

Hands are tied when they are uncontracted and not getting a regular game. You win some you lose some.

stavro#4 · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Which when we drafted him he was one of the best rebounding half backs in the VFL and happened to be at the Bombers so they remembered what we drafted him as.

He also has huge queries over his disposal and was seen as abit of a one trick pony that had speed and little else.

don’t rewrite history

StCicatriz · Jun 1, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
Sorry, you can cross Hanners off your list there. A large portion of his contract was front loaded out of minimum SC savings and there was NOBODY else interested to go to Seaford except Kent who we also overpaid and was probably headed for delistment at Melbs.
Hill has been a disaster I'll agree. Hanners was almost a free swing.

there is absolutely no way of knowing that. plus wasn't hanners on a 4 year deal around 700-800k a year? for them to front load a lot of that, they would need to be front loading significant coin!!!

we made the assumption on here that we front loaded it. there was never any indidication that was the case. it was a case of 1 + 1 = 3. that because our list wasn't that great with any great stars or names on it, that we must have had salary cap to turn on him. yet we then sent a bunch of players out of the side and there were media reports we had to offload bruce because of cap concerns.

George · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
They should have signed him up for just that reason. Have you ever seen a side that doesn't use any depth?

Lol, no they shouldn't have. We have a plethora of half backs and most of them were tied into contracts. Savage also went because of the depth we have at that position. The trajectory of the players ahead of Hind was upwards, you can't expect the club to plan for something like that. We had cover at that position and similar to our rucks, they all went down. You can't have 10 players on list that play the same position just in case of extraordinary events.

stavro#4 · Jun 1, 2021

Mowman said:
How old are Frawley McKernan Hunter

Who are supposed to be stop gap players.

we had a bunch of 23 and under young defenders all performing well and the 26 year Hind had to play Half forward. What exactly is there to argue.

George · Jun 1, 2021

bird_man said:
I would have liked to have seen him get a go there before Savage.

We definitely could have given him a go there when Long was suspended and he may well have taken his spot.

It is what it is though and unfortunately we could not have got any more from Essendon than what we did.

Similar to us bringing in Butler, Roberton, Membrey etc.

Hands are tied when they are uncontracted and not getting a regular game. You win some you lose some.

Overall we do far, far better at trade than most other clubs so I really couldn't give a stuff about losing Hind. Good on him for playing well but he wasn't the same player at the Saints and we made the decision to move him on. Not the first time a player has left a club and played better elsewhere and won't be the last.

Yawkey way · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
When the AFL were worried about Brisbane being sh*t for too many years they sent in David Noble who is one of the most experienced operators in footy. He pretty much played the Neil Balme role at Adelaide while they were one of the most stable clubs in footy and culminated in them making a GF and being competitive despite having limited high draft picks. He moved to Brisbane and straightened everything out and they became a well drilled tough outfit on and off field.

Some how we got Lethlean who has no football experience inside club land and let him review and cull our list and even meddle in drafts and trades. I'm not blaming him for everything that goes wrong but he's a risky appointment. Then we get Gallagher as a list manager who is a guy from sales in the banking industry. Again no experience. I heard Matt Rendall suggest that Collingwood blew their cap by getting Ned Guy who had no experience in list management who f’ed it all up.

This is where premiership teams are built, get the off field right and the rest flows.

Just on trading hind, bruce whoever yes it really matters to at least get fair value.

I can’t remember who posted it but someone recently said where can you get a key forward cheap, well try st Kilda I’d tell them. Trading bruce might have worked well for him but what about us, king was thrown in at the deep end because we traded a player we didn’t need to imo.

What really annoyed me was we virtually gave him away, he was contracted all we had to do was say we want pick x or jog on. The bulldogs would have paid up or lost interest either way we win, this oh we used the pick on Jones so that’s ok is just clouding poor trading.

Yes we got Jones but with a higher pick maybe it becomes Jones and another player or a draft pick etc. Look at our draft hand as it currently stands it’s a disgrace we have our first and no second, not much room to move there. It’s like we decided to target free agents as a priority but then it’s suggested we’ve blown the cap.

So if we can attract someone how do we fit them in and if billings walks our compensation will be adjusted or voided. So yes I’m confused, billings out free agent in or billings out two first rounders. So one option is a push the other implies we’re building for the future. Then the club puts out 2022 is the window, why would anyone be frustrated with an underperforming team with what appears to be a confusing strategy.

It gets worse though we have so many guys who need to be cut it’s another decent list churn at least. If lethlean and co manage to somehow field a considerable better list next year then the champagne should really flow imo. I’m not saying they can’t just that I can’t see how they’ll do it, maybe half what we’re told is garbage I certainly hope it is.

Sorry for the ramble I’m watching the covid press conference as I type.

StCicatriz · Jun 1, 2021

bird_man said:
I would have liked to have seen him get a go there before Savage.

We definitely could have given him a go there when Long was suspended and he may well have taken his spot.

It is what it is though and unfortunately we could not have got any more from Essendon than what we did.

Similar to us bringing in Butler, Roberton, Membrey etc.

Hands are tied when they are uncontracted and not getting a regular game. You win some you lose some.

what about the previous season too?

like I get the competition for spots in 2020 and how long moving back put extra pressure on that. but what about 2019? because there was no attempt to play him there (really), it meant there was no form line to really push that selection in 2020.

George · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
This is where premiership teams are built, get the off field right and the rest flows.

Just on trading hind, bruce whoever yes it really matters to at least get fair value.

I can’t remember who posted it but someone recently said where can you get a key forward cheap, well try st Kilda I’d tell them. Trading bruce might have worked well for him but what about us, king was thrown in at the deep end because we traded a player we didn’t need to imo.

What really annoyed me was we virtually gave him away, he was contracted all we had to do was say we want pick x or jog on. The bulldogs would have paid up or lost interest either way we win, this oh we used the pick on Jones so that’s ok is just clouding poor trading.

Yes we got Jones but with a higher pick maybe it becomes Jones and another player or a draft pick etc. Look at our draft hand as it currently stands it’s a disgrace we have our first and no second, not much room to move there. It’s like we decided to target free agents as a priority but then it’s suggested we’ve blown the cap.

So if we can attract someone how do we fit them in and if billings walks our compensation will be adjusted or voided. So yes I’m confused, billings out free agent in or billings out two first rounders. So one option is a push the other implies we’re building for the future. Then the club puts out 2022 is the window, why would anyone be frustrated with an underperforming team with what appears to be a confusing strategy.

It gets worse though we have so many guys who need to be cut it’s another decent list churn at least. If lethlean and co manage to somehow field a considerable better list next year then the champagne should really flow imo. I’m not saying they can’t just that I can’t see how they’ll do it, maybe half what we’re told is garbage I certainly hope it is.

Sorry for the ramble I’m watching the covid press conference as I type.

Bruce wanted to go.

StCicatriz · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
This is where premiership teams are built, get the off field right and the rest flows.

Just on trading hind, bruce whoever yes it really matters to at least get fair value.

I can’t remember who posted it but someone recently said where can you get a key forward cheap, well try st Kilda I’d tell them. Trading bruce might have worked well for him but what about us, king was thrown in at the deep end because we traded a player we didn’t need to imo.

What really annoyed me was we virtually gave him away, he was contracted all we had to do was say we want pick x or jog on. The bulldogs would have paid up or lost interest either way we win, this oh we used the pick on Jones so that’s ok is just clouding poor trading.

Yes we got Jones but with a higher pick maybe it becomes Jones and another player or a draft pick etc. Look at our draft hand as it currently stands it’s a disgrace we have our first and no second, not much room to move there. It’s like we decided to target free agents as a priority but then it’s suggested we’ve blown the cap.

So if we can attract someone how do we fit them in and if billings walks our compensation will be adjusted or voided. So yes I’m confused, billings out free agent in or billings out two first rounders. So one option is a push the other implies we’re building for the future. Then the club puts out 2022 is the window, why would anyone be frustrated with an underperforming team with what appears to be a confusing strategy.

It gets worse though we have so many guys who need to be cut it’s another decent list churn at least. If lethlean and co manage to somehow field a considerable better list next year then the champagne should really flow imo. I’m not saying they can’t just that I can’t see how they’ll do it, maybe half what we’re told is garbage I certainly hope it is.

Sorry for the ramble I’m watching the covid press conference as I type.

absolutely spot on.

the only thing in my mind that makes sense on Bruce is that we had salary cap motivation to move him on and the dogs were awake to that, like others in the media were banging on about.

which then makes you wonder how we can claim hanners was front loaded and what others were then on?

Mowman · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
I can’t remember who posted it but someone recently said where can you get a key forward cheap,

Yep
But we don't need to get another forward, we have one playing on the wing at moment

Ephemeral Hope · Jun 1, 2021

Jeez do you guys think Richmond supporters are sooking over Butler coming to us for nothing and playing almost AA level? They gave us Higgins too who’s our leading goal kicker this year. That’s our best forward last year and our best forward this year Richmond gave away for unders.

It’s the same as the Hind trade.

stavro#4 · Jun 1, 2021

We’re really sad to see Hindy go,” Gallagher said.

“Nick is at a stage in his career where security and playing opportunities are a real priority.

"For these reasons, he expressed to us a desire to pursue the next phase of his career at Essendon, and we were willing to support his wishes to do so.

Saints thank Hind

Nicholas Hind will depart the Saints, signing a new deal with Essendon today.

www.saints.com.au

They (St Kilda) weren’t necessarily open to trading me, but they weren’t also looking to extend my contract which was something that I was obviously really keen to do,” Bruce told SEN’s Time On.

“With a young family now, it’s something that’s really important to me, so we were on different wavelengths in terms of that.

“I was exploring my options, this popped up and the Saints weren’t that keen to get it through. But as they tend to do, it did get through in the end.

So Bruce on record wanted a contract extension before the end of his deal and we weren’t willing to discuss, but we also didn’t want to trade him. So he found a club who would.

The determining factor that led to Josh Bruce’s St Kilda departure

Bruce joined the Western Bulldogs late in the trade period.

www.sen.com.au

So where did Gags perform poorly here?

pebblesofsand · Jun 1, 2021

Hind is 27 yo OK HBF in the 6th worst defence in the league. As proved by us - he cannot play any other position.

If not for multiple injuries would have struggled to get a game in our team this year. Even I'll admit that Long was better than him last year but Sinclair is a much better option this year.

And people go on and on about improving the list. Sheeesshhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Winmar2Lockett · Jun 1, 2021

StCicatriz said:
right so because of how we structured the salary cap with the acquisitions of Hill + Hanners it meant we had to move on Bruce for what ever we could get?

which resulted in trading in someone who has a history of soft tissue injuries?

sounds like amazing list management!!!

We didn't have to move on Bruce for cap space at all... you're just inventing BS to suit your carry on.

bird_man · Jun 1, 2021

StCicatriz said:
what about the previous season too?

like I get the competition for spots in 2020 and how long moving back put extra pressure on that. but what about 2019? because there was no attempt to play him there (really), it meant there was no form line to really push that selection in 2020.

I'm agreeing that we should have tried him off the back flank.

Yawkey way · Jun 1, 2021

George said:
Bruce wanted to go.

I heard that George I’m sure he did, it was a good offer but what’s that to us if he’s required and contracted.

Dunkley wanted out, he had a good offer from Essendon and the bulldogs said make us an offer we can’t refuse or jog on. I guess I’m really annoyed because I would have expected to pay a lot more to to get a contracted key forward to st Kilda.

Winmar2Lockett · Jun 1, 2021

stavro#4 said:
Who are supposed to be stop gap players.

we had a bunch of 23 and under young defenders all performing well and the 26 year Hind had to play Half forward. What exactly is there to argue.

Arguing for the sake of it and making up rubbish to back up their meltdowns.

All this Hind stuff is hysterical.

Next they'll be back onto Hanners.

Or Hill.

And will intentionally ignore that three absolutely critical players are injured.

Funny sh$%

StCicatriz · Jun 1, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
We didn't have to move on Bruce for cap space at all... you're just inventing BS to suit your carry on.

that was what I re-call hearing on Trade Radio from Terry Wallace... why else would we do that trade for a 2nd and 3rd rounder?

he wasn't out of contract! there was no rush for us to do that trade

stavro#4 · Jun 1, 2021

StCicatriz said:
that was what I re-call hearing on Trade Radio from Terry Wallace... why else would we do that trade for a 2nd and 3rd rounder?

he wasn't out of contract! there was no rush for us to do that trade

I think a fair assumption would be we had no interest in renewing Bruce’s deal at the level it was currently on and definitely not keen at looking at it prior to 2020. Which is completely fair enough

which the next point is that your all up in arms but did moving Bruce on seem like a poor decision last year? Dogs are second on the latter this year and I still don’t regret the Bruce deal nor would I want to be paying him 500+k.

Yawkey way · Jun 1, 2021

stavro#4 said:
We’re really sad to see Hindy go,” Gallagher said.

“Nick is at a stage in his career where security and playing opportunities are a real priority.

"For these reasons, he expressed to us a desire to pursue the next phase of his career at Essendon, and we were willing to support his wishes to do so.

Saints thank Hind

Nicholas Hind will depart the Saints, signing a new deal with Essendon today.

www.saints.com.au

So Bruce on record wanted a contract extension before the end of his deal and we weren’t willing to discuss, but we also didn’t want to trade him. So he found a club who would.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/10/29/the-determining-facto-that-led-to-bruces-st-kilda-departure/

So where did Gags perform poorly here?

How the hell does he get traded if he’s required and contracted, he doesn’t.

If every contracted player who had an offer from a rival was traded then trade week would be nonstop action. I’m of the school that thinks it’s team first, if you’re contracted and required then it’s a win for us or you stay put. Honestly when we approach a contracted player don’t you expect to pay overs if he’s required.

George · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
I heard that George I’m sure he did, it was a good offer but what’s that to us if he’s required and contracted.

Dunkley wanted out, he had a good offer from Essendon and the bulldogs said make us an offer we can’t refuse or jog on. I guess I’m really annoyed because I would have expected to pay a lot more to to get a contracted key forward to st Kilda.

Bruce was rubbish though, we couldn't have expected anything crazy. Even his first year at the Dogs was horrible, it's only this year he has improved and he himself said he didn't take his football seriously in previous years.

Someone like King would attract a lot of interest from other clubs as an example because there's heaps of potential there whereas with Bruce he had been in the system almost 10 years, we all knew what he could produce and it was inconsistent football.

bird_man · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
How the hell does he get traded if he’s required and contracted, he doesn’t.

If every contracted player who had an offer from a rival was traded then trade week would be nonstop action. I’m of the school that thinks it’s team first, if you’re contracted and required then it’s a win for us or you stay put. Honestly when we approach a contracted player don’t you expect to pay overs if he’s required.

The fact that we wanted to play two rucks means there was every chance Bruce would have been playing VFL for periods and his value the following year when out of contract would have been even lower.

With the form he was in last year and the fact we had Marshall forward we would have possiboy got a 3rd rounder and not the 2nd and 3rd we did.

George · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
How the hell does he get traded if he’s required and contracted, he doesn’t.

If every contracted player who had an offer from a rival was traded then trade week would be nonstop action. I’m of the school that thinks it’s team first, if you’re contracted and required then it’s a win for us or you stay put. Honestly when we approach a contracted player don’t you expect to pay overs if he’s required.

Hind was playing in and out of the VFL last year so I don't know what we or you should've expected from other clubs. Dunkley is obviously a completely different player in a completely different position in his career in that he was playing regular senior football and all could see the talent he had. Hind never showed any of that.

Yawkey way · Jun 1, 2021

Ephemeral Hope said:
Jeez do you guys think Richmond supporters are sooking over Butler coming to us for nothing and playing almost AA level? They gave us Higgins too who’s our leading goal kicker this year. That’s our best forward last year and our best forward this year Richmond gave away for unders.

It’s the same as the Hind trade.

Butler is playing very poorly this year and we traded firsts and gave up a second for Higgins.

So butler looked a bargain last year and Higgins was overs not unders imo. I couldn’t tell you if richmond supporters are bothered, maybe they aren’t but three flags in four years will do that I guess.

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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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