Analysis 2021 trade thread

[Fagenslions36]

Trade for needs which is what we did by getting a mature back up ruck who will help our setup with hippy out . Draft for talent . I’d be looking at a midfielder or a half back for rich . Think sharp will develop into that hard running winger . Doesn’t have school to concentrate on now so we should see a big improvement if him over next couple of years .

 

[Fagenslions36]

2 good picks this year . Ashcroft in next year mini list rejuvenation .

 

[Nunez]

2 good picks this year . Ashcroft in next year mini list rejuvenation .

Not to mention Fletcher who will be a very good second round prospect next year too. Good talent coming in, will just n we to make sure we get a KPP in among the picks somewhere.

 

[On the quiet]

We don't have the list space anymore to keep Ballenden (or Brock Smith or Joyce), they'll all be delisted. Whether Fort is replacing him depends on whether we feel we need another KPD behind Payne.

shame that two of the three you have named did not even get one game in the firsts and Ballenden only got a couple of games. Unfortunately I agree that the three named are very likely to be delisted.

Keen observers of training like Jason mp might notice if Payne is training in the forward line, during the off season.

 

[mattsmob]

Not to mention Fletcher who will be a very good second round prospect next year too. Good talent coming in, will just n we to make sure we get a KPP in among the picks somewhere.

Not sure how to link post's from other threads but a draft watcher on the draft board, Davo-27, had Fletcher at 13 in his last 2022 rankings. eDPS didn't have him in his top 20, hopefully Jaspa can get the chance to play footy that is more publicised next season, maybe even a few games with the VFL team.

 

[Jivlain]

A few points worth making when it comes to Connor:

The winner of the reserves B&F is somewhat a death wish to the recipient historically.
If Connor was thought of in any way as a back up to Big O, Fort would not be on our list.
Connor has been a listed Lions player now for several years and has not been promoted even though he was an outstanding player in our reserves.
When he did get a gig in the best 22, he never really showed much for Fagan & Co to be excited about.
He definitely has more going against him than for him as it sits right now.

The reserves B&F getting delisted was a symptom of us having a young, injury-ravaged list. It demonstrated that you weren't getting elevated to the seniors side while all your peers were getting a few games at least before they inevitably injured themselves.

It's a historical novelty rather than a practice of giving it as a consolation prize to the next delistee.

 

[irel]

A Fort-uitous trade.


Crikey. Didn't think there could be a skinny-er version of O.

Listed as:
Fort - 204cm 103kg
Mcinerney 204cm 108kg

Not much.

 

[BangyBangy]

Listed as:
Fort - 204cm 103kg
Mcinerney 204cm 108kg

Not much.

Me: 178cm 112.5kg

Pfft. Lightweights.

 

[mpal6]

Glad to get Fort. I think he starts in the team next season.

Yep, will be ahead of Fullarton for 2022.

 

[mattsmob]

Yep, will be ahead of Fullarton for 2022.

We'll wait and see, Fullarton can brings things that Fort can't, feel like it's in Fullarton's hands with how much he's improved over the off-season.

 

[Flea_29]

Some commentators really need to get their marbles checked.
Jon Ralph explains clearly that we don't have the cap space to bring in a Gunston, yet Kingy blabbers on for the next 2-3 mins about using pick 18 to bring in a Gunston.
Lets get something straight we still have two first round picks - who knows they could be the next Bailey (pick 15) and Starcevich (pick 18).
We also got Fort (a need) and upgraded to pick 41 - still a potential to get us a good player. Who knows we could even package later picks to get something in the late 20s or early 30s.

 

[mattsmob]

Some commentators really need to get their marbles checked.
Jon Ralph explains clearly that we don't have the cap space to bring in a Gunston, yet Kingy blabbers on for the next 2-3 mins about using pick 18 to bring in a Gunston.
Lets get something straight we still have two first round picks - who knows they could be the next Bailey (pick 15) and Starcevich (pick 18).
We also got Fort (a need) and upgraded to pick 41 - still a potential to get us a good player. Who knows we could even package later picks to get something in the late 20s or early 30s.

Honestly in so many ways the AFL is one of the most amateurish sporting organisations in the world and unfortunately that extends to the media and coverage of everything to do with it.

 

[Dalions]

Some commentators really need to get their marbles checked.
Jon Ralph explains clearly that we don't have the cap space to bring in a Gunston, yet Kingy blabbers on for the next 2-3 mins about using pick 18 to bring in a Gunston.
Lets get something straight we still have two first round picks - who knows they could be the next Bailey (pick 15) and Starcevich (pick 18).
We also got Fort (a need) and upgraded to pick 41 - still a potential to get us a good player. Who knows we could even package later picks to get something in the late 20s or early 30s.

Doesn’t fit their narrative.

 

[The Zork]

Yep somehow been labelled one of the few losers of the draft.. yet we haven’t actually lost anything

David King is an idiot, a total idiot.

 

[Elixuh]

Not to mention Fletcher who will be a very good second round prospect next year too. Good talent coming in, will just n we to make sure we get a KPP in among the picks somewhere.

Is Fletcher a mid? Is there a link I can read which gives some background on his profile?

 

[Nunez]

Is Fletcher a mid? Is there a link I can read which gives some background on his profile?

He's a wingman. I'm sure there's a link but my info is purely based off Bigfooty because I'm a pleb.

 

[BangyBangy]

Some commentators really need to get their marbles checked.
Jon Ralph explains clearly that we don't have the cap space to bring in a Gunston, yet Kingy blabbers on for the next 2-3 mins about using pick 18 to bring in a Gunston.
Lets get something straight we still have two first round picks - who knows they could be the next Bailey (pick 15) and Starcevich (pick 18).
We also got Fort (a need) and upgraded to pick 41 - still a potential to get us a good player. Who knows we could even package later picks to get something in the late 20s or early 30s.

I was watching their show last night & had quite the chuckle or two.

It's all very much Vic biased. I'm not even sure it's intentional, moreso just the fact they don't try to hide their bias.

The premiership window was my favourite part of their show. Melbourne & the Bulldogs have a never ending premiership window that starts now.

Port have a premiership window from 2022 to 2026.

The Lions have a premiership window from 2022 to 2025. Have they even looked at the age profile of our list? Or considered the draft hand we have this year & the talent set to come into our club in 2022?

I'm not mad. Just disappointed.

 

[jackess]

I was watching their show last night & had quite the chuckle or two.

It's all very much Vic biased. I'm not even sure it's intentional, moreso just the fact they don't try to hide their bias.

The premiership window was my favourite part of their show. Melbourne & the Bulldogs have a never ending premiership window that starts now.

Port have a premiership window from 2022 to 2026.

The Lions have a premiership window from 2022 to 2025. Have they even looked at the age profile of our list? Or considered the draft hand we have this year & the talent set to come into our club in 2022?

I'm not mad. Just disappointed.

Ollie Wines is 27, Lycett 29 and Boak 33. Their other mids haven't consistently performed in the midfield. I can't see Port being much of a threat after next season

 

[BangyBangy]

Ollie Wines is 27, Lycett 29 and Boak 33. Their other mids haven't consistently performed in the midfield. I can't see Port being much of a threat after next season

I actually agree with that bit. Unless their younger players come on & step up in their absence. One of the things that gave me a chuckle was their position that our window is shorter than Ports.

 

[mattsmob]

Ollie Wines is 27, Lycett 29 and Boak 33. Their other mids haven't consistently performed in the midfield. I can't see Port being much of a threat after next season

I'm not sure if I really view them as much of a threat this season, their midfield is decent but with our depth through there we have at least an equivalent midfield and our forwards and backs walk all over them.

 

[davemc_lions]

if Ballenden does get delisted would not mind picking him up as a VFL player.
Think he improved this year.. Maybe another year in the VFL only as we have no spots might work.

I do wonder with smaller lists there needs a safety net for players who miss out or pushed out early to get on a list via VFL or state squad
A new Cat V or something you can have 5 players on your list who play state footy.
Can also be promoted only for long term injuries. Otherwise on VFL wages.

I do think players like Ballenden, Joyce or B Smith getting pushed out earlier then they would of with 3 extra spots.
There also be kids not ready that clubs will not want to spare a spot for development

 

[M Malice]

I was watching their show last night & had quite the chuckle or two.

It's all very much Vic biased. I'm not even sure it's intentional, moreso just the fact they don't try to hide their bias.

The premiership window was my favourite part of their show. Melbourne & the Bulldogs have a never ending premiership window that starts now.

Port have a premiership window from 2022 to 2026.

The Lions have a premiership window from 2022 to 2025. Have they even looked at the age profile of our list? Or considered the draft hand we have this year & the talent set to come into our club in 2022?

I'm not mad. Just disappointed.

Yer, it's laughable.

Our "older" players who will be hard to replace to extend our flag window are Dayne Zorko(32), Daniel Rich(31), Jarryd Lyons(29) and Lachie Neale(28), hopefully whoever we get in this years draft + the guaranteed acquisition of Will Ashcroft and Jaspa Fletcher next year will go a long way to filling that coming void. We also have Dev Robertson who could be one solution as a long term inside mid for Neale/Lyons.

 

[spotthedog1]

Some commentators really need to get their marbles checked.
Jon Ralph explains clearly that we don't have the cap space to bring in a Gunston, yet Kingy blabbers on for the next 2-3 mins about using pick 18 to bring in a Gunston.
Lets get something straight we still have two first round picks - who knows they could be the next Bailey (pick 15) and Starcevich (pick 18).
We also got Fort (a need) and upgraded to pick 41 - still a potential to get us a good player. Who knows we could even package later picks to get something in the late 20s or early 30s.

I don't agree with them on the C grade, or the "fail" mark, or whatever else... But the salary cap vs trade issue is a reasonable discussion.

This year, trading portions of salary cap was a big point. Hawthorn made it known that they had the salary cap, they just wanted picks. We could've taken Gunston or Breust, and if we gave up a pick 18, Hawks would have been willing to take on the majority of the payroll.

Hawks get extra draft pick value, pay $400k of the salary
We get an A-grade player, only pay minimum wage

Then, it just depends on whether you want the highest chance to win in a 1 or 2 year period, followed by a drop, or a sustained high level, albeit not quite as high as otherwise.

If we traded 14 and 18, and got in 2x Hawthorn top level players who would genuinely be top 10 players on our list... We'd be the favourites for the 2022 cup.
But
Then we'd lose some internal growth, and 2 first rounder players. When Zorko, Neale, Gunston, O'Meara all retire... we'd be out of the running.

Obviously then, it's a matter of how much improvement the players you are looking at bring, and whether that's worth the sacrifice.

 

[Tom14]

I don't agree with them on the C grade, or the "fail" mark, or whatever else... But the salary cap vs trade issue is a reasonable discussion.

This year, trading portions of salary cap was a big point. Hawthorn made it known that they had the salary cap, they just wanted picks. We could've taken Gunston or Breust, and if we gave up a pick 18, Hawks would have been willing to take on the majority of the payroll.

Hawks get extra draft pick value, pay $400k of the salary
We get an A-grade player, only pay minimum wage

Then, it just depends on whether you want the highest chance to win in a 1 or 2 year period, followed by a drop, or a sustained high level, albeit not quite as high as otherwise.

If we traded 14 and 18, and got in 2x Hawthorn top level players who would genuinely be top 10 players on our list... We'd be the favourites for the 2022 cup.
But
Then we'd lose some internal growth, and 2 first rounder players. When Zorko, Neale, Gunston, O'Meara all retire... we'd be out of the running.

Obviously then, it's a matter of how much improvement the players you are looking at bring, and whether that's worth the sacrifice.

All this assumes that any hawks player would have been willing to come to us too - I don't think we bothered to ask the question of any of them, but on the other hand, seems unlikely to me that Breust or Wingard would have been interested. Even with hawthorn paying some salary, would have been hard to fit in a player like Mitchell I think.

Gunston is an interesting one as I think if fit he could play even if we have all our tall forwards fit and firing. But he hasn't played in a year and given that it is a back injury and his age it makes it a risky proposition. 15 other clubs seemingly had no interest in any of the hawks players which suggests that they players weren't interested in moving, Hawthorn wanted too much in draft compensation, or no decent contender had anywhere close to the $ to fit any of them in.

 

[jackess]

I think if Hawthorn was offering up someone who suited our needs better then it might have been a good opportunity. But the ones they were willing to offload weren't worth a first round pick to us.