Review 2022 AFL National (& Rookie) Draft(s) Thread II (North's picks - Sheezel, Wardlaw, B.George, Harvey, Drury,Free,Howe,Turner)

[Sphynx]

Just dropping by to say you guys have mitigated the JHF saga well and with wardlaw he will be the jhf replacement and sheezel could easily have been a pick 1 this year so you guys aced the 1st round. Both kids vic kids so that go home factor nor there either. Be interesting to see who you grab with your next pick but a good way to turn a page

And we get to death ride Ports pick next year…

 

[Pagans Paddock99]

Umm… we must watch a different team, because a high quality rebounding defender is absolutely a need… If he’s available, he’s also likely best available…

Respect your opinion, but mine is different.

I think we have more types that can play a rebounding defending role like TT, Stepho, Goater, Young, Scott, Hall (short term) Perez, maybe Bergman?

I’m not knocking Cowan or Clarke, but I think we have more pressing needs than another type where we have similar coverage already?

We have no one outside of Larkey and Comben which to me creates more of a long term need than a rebounding defender which a pushed out mid could play?

Cowan might be the better player, but Keeler or Gruz or Hayes are by far needed a lot more at this stage of our rebuild i think.






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[Crow till I die]

And we get to death ride Ports pick next year…

I quietly didn't mention we have your f2...

 

[Psicosis]

I’m all for Cowan, but to his point of rebounding defenders - who do we have in that mould. McDonald, Hall, Perez, Lachy, Goater, Dawson?

Bergman perez and goater all play that role not to mention we also have mcdonald hall and young also. Even bonar that is way more then enough of that type of player. We have 2 genuine proper key forwards once of which barely gets on the park. Our tall needs outweigh anything on the list

Personally I have don’t have a high level of confidence that the players you’ve both listed will become high quality HBFs.

McDonald - he’s 28 next year
Hall - he’s 32 next year
Perez - shown some good signs but only got a 1 year extension, needs a lot to go right
Bergman - I like him but he’s a stick and hasn’t proven he can make the level
Goater - high quality prospect who played his only game on a wing and was really impressive, Rawlings said that they can see him playing wing, mid and back
Young - improved this year but still am unsure whether he makes it in a good team
Dawson & Bonar - nothing against them, but they shouldn’t even be in the “damaging half back” conversation

High quality rebound defenders are extremely important in the modern game. With McKay and Logue locking down on the keys for the next decade, we need to surround them with good rebounders IMO.

Cowan happens to fit a need and is likely to be best available. It’s a no brainer from my perspective.

 

[hellas_johnny]

Respect your opinion, but mine is different.

I think we have more types that can play a rebounding defending role like TT, Stepho, Goater, Young, Scott, Hall (short term) Perez, maybe Bergman?

I’m not knocking Cowan or Clarke, but I think we have more pressing needs than another type where we have similar coverage already?

We have no one outside of Larkey and Comben which to me creates more of a long term need than a rebounding defender which a pushed out mid could play?

Cowan might be the better player, but Keeler or Gruz or Hayes are by far needed a lot more at this stage of our rebuild i think.






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Yep you only have to look at our vfl team to see how unbalanced our list is and how much we need these talls. Example this season getting Dawson into the afl team and having walker in vfl with also comben available the vfl team did much better. We've gone for best available at 2 and 3 we don't need to go best available now when there are players around that area that list needs

 

[Psicosis]

Respect your opinion, but mine is different.

I think we have more types that can play a rebounding defending role like TT, Stepho, Goater, Young, Scott, Hall (short term) Perez, maybe Bergman?

I’m not knocking Cowan or Clarke, but I think we have more pressing needs than another type where we have similar coverage already?

We have no one outside of Larkey and Comben which to me creates more of a long term need than a rebounding defender which a pushed out mid could play?

Cowan might be the better player, but Keeler or Gruz or Hayes are by far needed a lot more at this stage of our rebuild i think.






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Fair enough, I disagree.

 

[the big lebowski]

You’d think clarko is going to want foot skills no matter what.

How do the next 10 or so rated picks compare by foot?

 

[Psicosis]

You’d think clarko is going to want foot skills no matter what.

How do the next 10 or so rated picks compare by foot?

Cowan, Ryan & Huswaite would be those that tick that box

 

[the big lebowski]

Cowan, Ryan & Huswaite would be those that tick that box

I just couldn’t bring myself to pick Cowan. Sometimes you need to not take a risk with go home factor and best case scenario Cowan is better than average and he will be paid overs to go home after 4 seasons.

What’s the knock on huswaite? On paper he seems to have a lot to like, especially if he’s highly ranked foot wise like you say.

Hayes has to be seriously considered given the length of time back men take to develop at north. If he is a good one maybe it’s a good long term investment.

 

[Tas]

Checks notes… we traded out our round 3 pick and for the sake of list balance we need someone with size. We did have two 3rd round picks that we virtually threw in the bin as we had no list spots available.


This is the hole you put yourself in when you get stuck picking purely for needs versus best available. Picking Clarke as a small forward when nearly 20% of your list is a small/medium forward is high risk as there are other major areas of concern.

Imagine Charlie Clarke, Harvey, Ford, Mahoney, Spicer or any of the other small forwards all in the VFL whilst we have no KP and Keeler, Gruz or Hayes could have been developing?

I would like to see a KP with our remaining pick and another with a rookie pick so we have two bookends developing in the VFL.





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You have to rate them though. You don't want to recruit someone just because they are tall. They will be looking to build a premiership team rather than just fill list spots, you have to be confident with a KPP because it is most likely going to be a 3-5 year commitment before you have some confidence that they will work out.

This is my problem with our list, to date.

Goldstein: He is 34.
Hall: He is 32, kicking can be hit or miss/lacks consistency. Defensively dubious. Rebound run is important.
Ziebell: He is 31, will be 32 before season starts. Not a standout player in his role.
Cunnington: He is 31. Absolute champion, tank is poor though.
Greenwood: He has tackled a lot but hasn't helped with the way we move the ball. Not a standout player in his role.
Corr: Solid defender, not a standout player in his role.
McDonald: Makes too many rookie mistakes as a defender, hit or miss with his defensive rebound. Not a standout player in his role.
McKay: Gun.
Simpkin: Love Jy and hate being critical but he turns over a lot of his first possessions/clearances as an inside mid. Not a standout player as an inside mid, we would need to reinvent him going forward.
Zurhaar: Lacks consistency, hard to pindown how much it is the fault of the gameplan/ball movement. He can be very damaging.
Larkey: Plays very well given the calibre of ball movement. Ideally probably suits a second tall but we have nobody else.
Stephenson: Defensively poor, hasn't excelled in any role, has had some great games. Not a standout player in any role he has played.
Bonar: Injury prone/low pain threshold, 64.8% ToG this year, 69.1% career. Not a standout player in his role.
Xerri: Big improvement this year but struggled physically to play out the year, we had to bring Goldy back from the dead for 2023 due to low confidence in our ruck stock.
Young: Massive improvement in 2022, don't know what ceiling he has or if he has the potential to become elite.
LDU: Gun, still a bit inconsistent
CCJ: Hasn't looked good in any role.
Thomas: Was amazing last year, this year was bad, real bad. Hopefully he can go back to 2021 form.
Taylor: Has talent, but is inconsistent.
Scott: One of the few players to take a forward step this year.
Comben: Always injured, needs a bit 2023.
Perez: Love his aggression, but mostly played bench/fringe roles this year with not much impact.
Mahony: Has struggled to find his niche role in the side, don't think we had the gameplan to take advantage of his strengths.
Spicer: Has looked uncomfortable at AFL level.
Powell: Not played in his best role as we primarily went with Simpkin, LDU and Greenwood. Will we use him as a follower or will he adapt to a different role? Life will get harder with Cunnington, Phillips and Wardlaw adding to the midfield mix.
Lazzaro: Hasn't looked comfortable at AFL level.
Phillips: Has barely been on the park.
Ford: Hasn't had much opportunity
Bergman: Haven't seen much of him.
Curtis: Had a great first year.
Goater: Lack of opportunity, looked promising in his one AFL game.
Archer: Love his aggression but gets hurt a lot going in hard.

A big problem we have had is a lack of standout senior players and few and far between younger players looking like they are or will be best 18. It is not going to help us to get rid of someone and then pick someone else in the draft we might have to wait 3-5 years to figure out if they are any good or not.

We have a lot of kids with promise, but we also have a lot of kids that from year to year haven't shown enough progress. That is why we are back to back wooden spooners.

The sad reality is that unless 2023 and 2024 doesn't change significantly for a lot of players, around a third of this list wont be here by 2025. Our list is just full of too many players that are unknown or low confidence and when we pick a best 22 it leans too heavily on hope rather than expectation.

I think Clarkson is going to give everyone contracted every chance to move forwards in a positive manner but I daresay you wouldn't want to be coming out of contract and not being a regular best 22. We can't go on that we have no room on our list and are being one of the worst teams going around, you do not want to be a slow learner or continually making the same basic mistakes over and over. We need to start converting more kids into good consistent AFL players.

 

[Rooboys Rool]

I just couldn’t bring myself to pick Cowan. Sometimes you need to not take a risk with go home factor and best case scenario Cowan is better than average and he will be paid overs to go home after 4 seasons.

What’s the knock on huswaite? On paper he seems to have a lot to like, especially if he’s highly ranked foot wise like you say.

Hayes has to be seriously considered given the length of time back men take to develop at north. If he is a good one maybe it’s a good long term investment.

I think the whole big men take time is a reason to take a KP player with our next pick. Take someone like Hayes now and he’s got a couple of years to build his body and experience mostly in the twos, then a couple more to build up to 50 games leading into a premiership window.

A rebounding defender is also a big need and I’m not convinced on that many already on our list, but we could draft more in the next two drafts and there’ll still be enough time for them to build into the next flag team. You never know, some of those already on the list might make it and the need to draft one will disappear

 

[Pagans Paddock99]

I just couldn’t bring myself to pick Cowan. Sometimes you need to not take a risk with go home factor and best case scenario Cowan is better than average and he will be paid overs to go home after 4 seasons.

What’s the knock on huswaite? On paper he seems to have a lot to like, especially if he’s highly ranked foot wise like you say.

Hayes has to be seriously considered given the length of time back men take to develop at north. If he is a good one maybe it’s a good long term investment.

Some could argue Cowan would be a great investment? If he turns out to be the best Tassie prospect, the new Tassie team would be desperate for a marquee player and you would think they would be bursting at the seems with priority picks ready to offload?

Imagine picks 1, 2, and a future first for Cowan in 2027

Is a sound strategic investment for the future!




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[4cunningTonneTruck]

I understand the need for talls, but you have to take best available with a high 2nd rounder and especially so when you would be reaching a fair bit to get a key sized forward. I'd rather the club pick up a mature aged state league key forward in the rookie draft who can help us immediately, and look to draft a long term prospect next year. Or just throw 2 first round picks at GC for Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

 

[Ashley B]

Brad McKenzie had great foot skills and I know it’s important but we need tall forwards

 

[Le Grille]

What if the tall fwds are s**t though?

 

[Rooboys Rool]

I understand the need for talls, but you have to take best available with a high 2nd rounder and especially so when you would be reaching a fair bit to get a key sized forward. I'd rather the club pick up a mature aged state league key forward in the rookie draft who can help us immediately, and look to draft a long term prospect next year. Or just throw 2 first round picks at GC for Ben King

We should do all of that. Hayes or Gruz at our next pick wouldn’t be a reach - legitimate best available types and also meet a need.

26 - Hayes
FS - Harvey
R1 - Lemmey or Scully
R2 - Mature KPF
R3 - Mature KPD
SSP - Shiels

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

We should do all of that. Hayes or Gruz at our next pick wouldn’t be a reach - legitimate best available types and also meet a need.

26 - Hayes
FS - Harvey
R1 - Lemmey or Scully
R2 - Mature KPF
R3 - Mature KPD
SSP - Shiels

Hayes isn't a forward and Gruz is a third tall who has mostly played backline. I'd argue a genuine damaging half back flanker is a more immediate need than a KPD after picking up Logue and Dawson. KPF is definitely our biggest need but I just don't think there is any worth reaching for with our pick.

 

[amaz199]

Our midfield looks to be getting really strong and that is absolutely exciting. The key to any premiership quality team is a midfield that not only can do the basic stuff well but absolutely punish teams on the turnover or momentum swing. There's a reason why Richmond won 3 of them and that's because they got the basics right and then had the class superstars to get the flags. Most importantly, they were collectively in agreement of one goal, premierships.

That's what we have to aim for and in order to do that we have to get the balance right in the middle. Doesn't have to be perfect as there's no such thing, but place enough concern into the opposition about your best players that it makes it just ever so slightly more difficult to try and run off their man. It places doubt in their minds and thus makes your team far superior.

Geelong 07-11 did the same seemingly with an unbreakable game style where even at the highest tempo, they could still split teams apart. Teams that would spank the teams of today. Same with Hawthorn between 2012-15 where they were possession heavy and punished teams with mediocre disposal.

Backline is taking shape with McKay, Corr and Logue. That is an exceptional KPD lineup. Not to mention Dawson will be developing and trying to push into that brigade.

Forward line has been bolstered with Sheezel joining in but we are still one KPF short until Comben becomes a damaging target at AFL level. This will continue to be our achilles heel until we sort out the KPF stocks. In finals type games where it's so tight a quick kick can be cut off, bombing it long will be an option and we need targets.

The rucks in Goldy, CCJ and Xerri gets weaker as the names are being mentioned with Goldy being outright the most prolific ruck we've had for more than 10 years. CCJ and Xerri have to be able to take on the premiership quality rucks they will face and at least break even. We're not expecting Goldy 80 hitouts, but just enough service to stem the flow and punish.

There are quite a few unknowns in the current list and we know who they are. It becomes a huge bonus if they get up, but a slight headache if they don't. This segment of the list will decide how fast we go up the ladder.

 

[marklovesbeer]

Fair enough, I disagree.

 

[Psicosis]

View attachment 1563372

We’ve been watching a different d50 ball transition for the last decade

 

[Rooboys Rool]

Hayes isn't a forward and Gruz is a third tall who has mostly played backline. I'd argue a genuine damaging half back flanker is a more immediate need than a KPD after picking up Logue and Dawson. KPF is definitely our biggest need but I just don't think there is any worth reaching for with our pick.

Yeah I guess I was looking at it more in terms of needs for our next premiership window than immediate needs. I agree that KPF is more of a need (both immediate and long term), but there’s none available at our next pick that wouldn’t be a reach.

For KPDs at our next premiership window I think it’s likely McKay and Logue from our current list, that’s it, and both of them will be pushing 30 by then.

 

[rangtastic]

You have to rate them though. You don't want to recruit someone just because they are tall. They will be looking to build a premiership team rather than just fill list spots, you have to be confident with a KPP because it is most likely going to be a 3-5 year commitment before you have some confidence that they will work out.

This is my problem with our list, to date.

Goldstein: He is 34.
Hall: He is 32, kicking can be hit or miss/lacks consistency. Defensively dubious. Rebound run is important.
Ziebell: He is 31, will be 32 before season starts. Not a standout player in his role.
Cunnington: He is 31. Absolute champion, tank is poor though.
Greenwood: He has tackled a lot but hasn't helped with the way we move the ball. Not a standout player in his role.
Corr: Solid defender, not a standout player in his role.
McDonald: Makes too many rookie mistakes as a defender, hit or miss with his defensive rebound. Not a standout player in his role.
McKay: Gun.
Simpkin: Love Jy and hate being critical but he turns over a lot of his first possessions/clearances as an inside mid. Not a standout player as an inside mid, we would need to reinvent him going forward.
Zurhaar: Lacks consistency, hard to pindown how much it is the fault of the gameplan/ball movement. He can be very damaging.
Larkey: Plays very well given the calibre of ball movement. Ideally probably suits a second tall but we have nobody else.
Stephenson: Defensively poor, hasn't excelled in any role, has had some great games. Not a standout player in any role he has played.
Bonar: Injury prone/low pain threshold, 64.8% ToG this year, 69.1% career. Noy a standout player in his role.
Xerri: Big improvement this year but struggled physically to play out the year, we had to bring Goldy back from the dead for 2023 due to low confidence in our ruck stock.
Young: Massive improvement in 2022, don't know what ceiling he has or if he has the potential to become elite.
LDU: Gun, still a bit inconsistent
CCJ: Hasn't looked good in any role.
Thomas: Was amazing last year, this year was bad, real bad. Hopefully he can go back to 2021 form.
Taylor: Has talent, but is inconsistent.
Scott: One of the few players to take a forward step this year.
Comben: Always injured, needs a bit 2023.
Perez: Love his aggression, but mostly played bench/fringe roles this year with not much impact.
Mahony: Has struggled to find his niche role in the side, don't think we had the gameplan to take advantage of his strengths.
Spicer: Has looked uncomfortable at AFL level.
Powell: Not played in his best role as we primarily went with Simpkin, LDU and Greenwood. Will we use him as a follower or will he adapt to a different role? Life will get harder with Cunnington, Phillips and Wardlaw adding to the midfield mix.
Lazzaro: Hasn't looked comfortable at AFL level.
Phillips: Has barely been on the park.
Ford: Hasn't had much opportunity
Bergman: Haven't seen much of him.
Curtis: Had a great first year.
Goater: Lack of opportunity, looked promising in his one AFL game.
Archer: Love his aggression but gets hurt a lot going in hard.

A big problem we have had is a lack of standout senior players and few and far between younger players looking like they are or will be best 18. It is not going to help us to get rid of someone and then pick someone else in the draft we might have to wait 3-5 years to figure out if they are any good or not.

We have a lot of kids with promise, but we also have a lot of kids that from year to year haven't shown enough progress. That is why we are back to back wooden spooners.

The sad realist is that unless 2023 and 2024 doesn't change significantly for a lot of players, around a third of this list wont be here by 2025. Our list is just full of too many players that are unknown or low confidence and when we pick a best 22 it leans too heavily on hope rather than expectation.

I think Clarkson is going to give everyone contracted every chance to move forwards in a positive manner but I daresay you wouldn't be coming out of contract and not being a regular best 22. We can't go on that we have no room on our list and are being one of the worst teams going around, you do not want to be a slow learner or continually making the same basic mistakes over and over. We need to start converting more kids into good consistent AFL players.

Personally I have don’t have a high level of confidence that the players you’ve both listed will become high quality HBFs.

McDonald - he’s 28 next year
Hall - he’s 32 next year
Perez - shown some good signs but only got a 1 year extension, needs a lot to go right
Bergman - I like him but he’s a stick and hasn’t proven he can make the level
Goater - high quality prospect who played his only game on a wing and was really impressive, Rawlings said that they can see him playing wing, mid and back
Young - improved this year but still am unsure whether he makes it in a good team
Dawson & Bonar - nothing against them, but they shouldn’t even be in the “damaging half back” conversation

High quality rebound defenders are extremely important in the modern game. With McKay and Logue locking down on the keys for the next decade, we need to surround them with good rebounders IMO.

Cowan happens to fit a need and is likely to be best available. It’s a no brainer from my perspective

 

[Harris 10]

Our run and carry and ball use off half back is complete shite, Cowan would fill a massive need.
We need tall depth, preferably forward but Hayes looks best available.
We lack a quality small pressure forward, doesn’t seem to be many available.

Going to be a very interesting pick.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

I think the whole big men take time is a reason to take a KP player with our next pick. Take someone like Hayes now and he’s got a couple of years to build his body and experience mostly in the twos, then a couple more to build up to 50 games leading into a premiership window.

A rebounding defender is also a big need and I’m not convinced on that many already on our list, but we could draft more in the next two drafts and there’ll still be enough time for them to build into the next flag team. You never know, some of those already on the list might make it and the need to draft one will disappear

We haven’t had any KPP developmental overlap since Scott. It would be nice to think we have depth in at least one area outside of pure mid.

 

[HumphreyBBear]

You have to rate them though. You don't want to recruit someone just because they are tall. They will be looking to build a premiership team rather than just fill list spots, you have to be confident with a KPP because it is most likely going to be a 3-5 year commitment before you have some confidence that they will work out.

This is my problem with our list, to date.

Goldstein: He is 34.
Hall: He is 32, kicking can be hit or miss/lacks consistency. Defensively dubious. Rebound run is important.
Ziebell: He is 31, will be 32 before season starts. Not a standout player in his role.
Cunnington: He is 31. Absolute champion, tank is poor though.
Greenwood: He has tackled a lot but hasn't helped with the way we move the ball. Not a standout player in his role.
Corr: Solid defender, not a standout player in his role.
McDonald: Makes too many rookie mistakes as a defender, hit or miss with his defensive rebound. Not a standout player in his role.
McKay: Gun.
Simpkin: Love Jy and hate being critical but he turns over a lot of his first possessions/clearances as an inside mid. Not a standout player as an inside mid, we would need to reinvent him going forward.
Zurhaar: Lacks consistency, hard to pindown how much it is the fault of the gameplan/ball movement. He can be very damaging.
Larkey: Plays very well given the calibre of ball movement. Ideally probably suits a second tall but we have nobody else.
Stephenson: Defensively poor, hasn't excelled in any role, has had some great games. Not a standout player in any role he has played.
Bonar: Injury prone/low pain threshold, 64.8% ToG this year, 69.1% career. Not a standout player in his role.
Xerri: Big improvement this year but struggled physically to play out the year, we had to bring Goldy back from the dead for 2023 due to low confidence in our ruck stock.
Young: Massive improvement in 2022, don't know what ceiling he has or if he has the potential to become elite.
LDU: Gun, still a bit inconsistent
CCJ: Hasn't looked good in any role.
Thomas: Was amazing last year, this year was bad, real bad. Hopefully he can go back to 2021 form.
Taylor: Has talent, but is inconsistent.
Scott: One of the few players to take a forward step this year.
Comben: Always injured, needs a bit 2023.
Perez: Love his aggression, but mostly played bench/fringe roles this year with not much impact.
Mahony: Has struggled to find his niche role in the side, don't think we had the gameplan to take advantage of his strengths.
Spicer: Has looked uncomfortable at AFL level.
Powell: Not played in his best role as we primarily went with Simpkin, LDU and Greenwood. Will we use him as a follower or will he adapt to a different role? Life will get harder with Cunnington, Phillips and Wardlaw adding to the midfield mix.
Lazzaro: Hasn't looked comfortable at AFL level.
Phillips: Has barely been on the park.
Ford: Hasn't had much opportunity
Bergman: Haven't seen much of him.
Curtis: Had a great first year.
Goater: Lack of opportunity, looked promising in his one AFL game.
Archer: Love his aggression but gets hurt a lot going in hard.

A big problem we have had is a lack of standout senior players and few and far between younger players looking like they are or will be best 18. It is not going to help us to get rid of someone and then pick someone else in the draft we might have to wait 3-5 years to figure out if they are any good or not.

We have a lot of kids with promise, but we also have a lot of kids that from year to year haven't shown enough progress. That is why we are back to back wooden spooners.

The sad realist is that unless 2023 and 2024 doesn't change significantly for a lot of players, around a third of this list wont be here by 2025. Our list is just full of too many players that are unknown or low confidence and when we pick a best 22 it leans too heavily on hope rather than expectation.

I think Clarkson is going to give everyone contracted every chance to move forwards in a positive manner but I daresay you wouldn't want to be coming out of contract and not being a regular best 22. We can't go on that we have no room on our list and are being one of the worst teams going around, you do not want to be a slow learner or continually making the same basic mistakes over and over. We need to start converting more kids into good consistent AFL players.

This is an almost perfect take on our list Tas. In my opinion.
One minor quibble - I would like McKay to use the ball better when he gets it before I could consider him a gun.