VFL 2022 - Reserves Game Day discussion Rnds 1 - 22 (Merged threads)

[Mondyboy]

Got it, didn’t notice that


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I noticed it as well. He was often not on the ground. When he was at the centre bounce, 80% of the time he was effective. He was one of the reasons, along with Carroll’s composure and LOB’s run, that we started to out work and out play Werribee.

Why he was on the bench for so long, I have no idea. But when he was on the ground he was dominant.

Having said that, Jack Carroll has gone past him. Is a better ball user. Seems to have more time. And looks composed. If he has a tank, not sure why he couldn’t line up on the wing with the odd centre bounce in the seniors.


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[thylacine60]

Worked it out through hard work and better delivery in to F50. My thoughts:

= Mirkov. Tick. good game. Sure hands. Not much of a tank but good skills for a ruckman.
= Philp. Tick. Fumbly at times but geesh he's a terrier
= Stocker. Gun, love him. In the ones.
= Dow. So all or nothing, but ihis all can be good.
= Willow. REally good, great options today. Fast & ok in traffic. His left looks good but overkicks
= Kemp. The naysayers can back off, really good leading all day and hard work.
= O'B. Good running back in defence, good discipline. But skill errors hurt his game. Many here love his effectiveness in kicking but his errors are so obvious & glaring to me.
= Fog. Works hard, poor skills
= Carroll. Looks great, very smooth, effective kick and kicks within himself. DOesn't try the fancy windup and looks better for the result.

great point on jack kicking within himself......great insight.

 

[FRUMPY]

16 is quiet for a midfielder but his centre bounce clearances turned the game for us in the 3rd.

Every centre bounce he attended in the last he was bear hugged by an opponent facing away from the play. No doubt they identified him as our biggest midfield threat.

His goal when we were two goals down in the last oozed class. Picked it up cleanly and snapped it through on the left after 30secs of fumbling from both sides in our fwd 50.

I’d love to see him earn another opportunity in the seniors soon.





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Didn't watch a second of the game but anyone who bases a performance on possession numbers is always an interesting take for me (not you, other posters)

I'd rather impact more than padding stats.

It did sounds like their midfielder had a field day so it would be retesting to see how often dow was opposed to him

Then again, dow had a few good games and then was forced to not play footy for a week as the emergency (otherwise known as a sub). Probably thought better to play a quieter game with major impact than dominate....[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji848][emoji12]

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[Jimmae]

More about consistency and what he does without the ball. He's always been fine around a stoppage and in link play going forward

Was getting back well in the second quarter to support and mop up, but can struggle on the spread and in open midfield play at times, yup. But the intensity he can throw at a stoppage has a cost.

Having said that, Jack Carroll has gone past him. Is a better ball user. Seems to have more time. And looks composed. If he has a tank, not sure why he couldn’t line up on the wing with the odd centre bounce in the seniors.

Carroll can get shut out of the stoppage a lot more, and was playing a much more outside role in this game.

Tank is the issue, as he's playing 2-3 quarters worth of footy at the right intensity currently.

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Didn't watch a second of the game but anyone who bases a performance on possession numbers is always an interesting take for me (not you, other posters)

I'd rather impact more than padding stats.

It did sounds like their midfielder had a field day so it would be retesting to see how often dow was opposed to him

Then again, dow had a few good games and then was forced to not play footy for a week as the emergency (otherwise known as a sub). Probably thought better to play a quieter game with major impact than dominate....[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji848][emoji12]

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As I said, I don’t know his time on ground stats but to only get 16 touches playing in the midfield is a quiet game by any definition. He’s not Peter Matera dominating a wing in the 90s, he’s playing midfield in the 2020s where it’s almost hard to get less than 20 touches if you play 75%+ game time.


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[Press Box Wing]

Club write-up said Willo played a new role but didn't say what. I assume wing as he was named there but based on this thread he doesn't seem to have had much impact. What's the future for this young man who showed so much promise early?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Club write-up said Willo played a new role but didn't say what. I assume wing as he was named there but based on this thread he doesn't seem to have had much impact. What's the future for this young man who showed so much promise early?

Don't trust this thread that much.

Willo was very important. He spread well, kicked well, tackled and competed in the air well. Made a couple mistakes where he overkicked his target a touch but otherwise was very important for the team.

He could be an in for cotters if carrol is an in for newnes. He does all the cotters stuff well but I think he reads the game better and maintains his involvement in the game more.

 

[goreds]

Worked it out through hard work and better delivery in to F50. My thoughts:

= Mirkov. Tick. good game. Sure hands. Not much of a tank but good skills for a ruckman.
= Philp. Tick. Fumbly at times but geesh he's a terrier
= Stocker. Gun, love him. In the ones.
= Dow. So all or nothing, but ihis all can be good.
= Willow. REally good, great options today. Fast & ok in traffic. His left looks good but overkicks
= Kemp. The naysayers can back off, really good leading all day and hard work.
= O'B. Good running back in defence, good discipline. But skill errors hurt his game. Many here love his effectiveness in kicking but his errors are so obvious & glaring to me.
= Fog. Works hard, poor skills
= Carroll. Looks great, very smooth, effective kick and kicks within himself. DOesn't try the fancy windup and looks better for the result.

Great review. Should be the template for the 2's going forward.

Everything that needs to be said in one brief bullet point summary.

The only thing to be added is conclusion, meaning: Who gets the call up next week!

 

[Aphrodite]

VFL R5 | All Carlton highlights v Werribee

Look back on the best work of the Blues in the Carlton Reserves' Round 5 VFL win over Werribee.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Blue since 72]

Club write-up said Willo played a new role but didn't say what. I assume wing as he was named there but based on this thread he doesn't seem to have had much impact. What's the future for this young man who showed so much promise early?

Was hoping it was wing. I like his left foot, generally pretty precise, is very fit and a good size and should have plenty of defensive nouse by now given where he has been used to date. Not express pace but doesn't need to be if he can deliver well by foot.

Thought Newman could play left wing too if the tank is there and if Stock is ear marked to come into the side down back.

 

[Shambolic]

I would sau defensive wing, they know we're struggling in that department in the 1's. Someone with dash and a long boot might work. They tried LOB for 4 weeks, now COttrell for 2.... I dare say Newnes has played his last game.

 

[Blue since 72]

I would sau defensive wing, they know we're struggling in that department in the 1's. Someone with dash and a long boot might work. They tried LOB for 4 weeks, now COttrell for 2.... I dare say Newnes has played his last game.

Think Setters has been playing a defensive wing role while LoB when he was in was the more attacking winger. Another option could be Doc, I don't think we have to have him in the back six.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Think Setters has been playing a defensive wing role while LoB when he was in was the more attacking winger. Another option could be Doc, I don't think we have to have him in the back six.

Yes, we do.

Doch is the best defender of the small group and the second best defender in the team. Newman doesn't defend, Saad is very good but a bit weak in the air than doch and Williams just a bit above Newman but Williams is also a far better rebounder than Newman. So we'd be creating more problems than solving by pushing doch up field, makes the backline quite terrible defensively.

If you want to mix things up I'd be looking at Williams in fishers role up forward, where he played a few times for Gws and was really successful, Williamson in down back and Carroll in on the wing. Something like that.

Removing all the seagulls would be the best start tbh.

 

[Arr0w]

Yes, we do.

Doch is the best defender of the small group and the second best defender in the team. Newman doesn't defend, Saad is very good but a bit weak in the air than doch and Williams just a bit above Newman but Williams is also a far better rebounder than Newman. So we'd be creating more problems than solving by pushing doch up field, makes the backline quite terrible defensively.

If you want to mix things up I'd be looking at Williams in fishers role up forward, where he played a few times for Gws and was really successful, Williamson in down back and Carroll in on the wing. Something like that.

Removing all the seagulls would be the best start tbh.

Doc has only been involved in only 2, Contested Defensive One on Ones, for the whole year (which he did win by the way)

And statiscally, Newman defends better than any player that has been in the back 7

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[Blue__Balls]

Doc has only been involved in only 2, Contested Defensive One on Ones, for the whole year (which he did win by the way)

And statiscally, Newman defends better than any player that has been in the back 7

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Saying Doc is one of our best defenders doesn't need to be backed up with one-on-one contest stats. He's a defender who regularly gets across to help a teammate, to work a ball out of a contest. Newman does too, but the particular stat you've decided to highlight is so specific as to be borderline irrelevant to the discussion.

He's going at roughly 50% more pressure acts, intercept marks and intercept possessions.
He's collecting more than twice as many ground balls.
He's given away one tenth the number of free kicks as Newman has.
He's getting about 50% more disposals, and going at a better disposal efficiency (by about 5%).

As a member of the defensive unit, Doc appears to be offering much more than Newman in most areas.

Even then though, stats are influenced by the role one plays. Maybe if Doc pushed up the ground and Newman took more responsibility down back, he'd get similar numbers - entirely possible. Given the ball is likely to be heading down back more often over the next few months though, I'd be loathe to shift a key piece out of that line and plopping him on a wing. Would rather Williams be the one to move forward.

 

[Arr0w]

Saying Doc is one of our best defenders doesn't need to be backed up with one-on-one contest stats. He's a defender who regularly gets across to help a teammate, to work a ball out of a contest. Newman does too, but the particular stat you've decided to highlight is so specific as to be borderline irrelevant to the discussion.

He's going at roughly 50% more pressure acts, intercept marks and intercept possessions.
He's collecting more than twice as many ground balls.
He's given away one tenth the number of free kicks as Newman has.
He's getting about 50% more disposals, and going at a better disposal efficiency (by about 5%).

As a member of the defensive unit, Doc appears to be offering much more than Newman in most areas.

Even then though, stats are influenced by the role one plays. Maybe if Doc pushed up the ground and Newman took more responsibility down back, he'd get similar numbers - entirely possible. Given the ball is likely to be heading down back more often over the next few months though, I'd be loathe to shift a key piece out of that line and plopping him on a wing. Would rather Williams be the one to move forward.

They are playing completely different roles, where Doc is playing somewhat as a defensive mid, that pushes into the attacking half, somewhat like Goddard was doing at *, where Newman is basically on the last line of defense

Yes, Doc is averaging 50% more PA in total, but defensive pressure acts Doc 9.3, Newman 8, is much closer and relative in terms of contests/possessions, like contested marks, where Doc has zero

This isn't so much about Doc, moreso the continued negative bias by a number of posters, that would rather falsify the facts to state a case to wanting Newman dropped for the likes of Willo that is struggling to make an impact at the lower levels

As for the structure of the side, I think the likes of Doc (defensive wing role), Williams, Walsh, Cerra rotating through the wings would have a more positive effect on our output

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Fact rather than perception is wonderful most times

Doc has only been involved in only 2, Contested Defensive One on Ones, for the whole year (which he did win by the way)

And statiscally, Newman defends better than any player that has been in the back 7

But, of course bias

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Doch intercepts, controls the backline and is involved in sweeping up the play far more often

Multi-year long agendas remain your play.

Keep the post its around your pc upto date with all the new ones.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Saying Doc is one of our best defenders doesn't need to be backed up with one-on-one contest stats. He's a defender who regularly gets across to help a teammate, to work a ball out of a contest. Newman does too, but the particular stat you've decided to highlight is so specific as to be borderline irrelevant to the discussion.

He's going at roughly 50% more pressure acts, intercept marks and intercept possessions.
He's collecting more than twice as many ground balls.
He's given away one tenth the number of free kicks as Newman has.
He's getting about 50% more disposals, and going at a better disposal efficiency (by about 5%).

As a member of the defensive unit, Doc appears to be offering much more than Newman in most areas.

Even then though, stats are influenced by the role one plays. Maybe if Doc pushed up the ground and Newman took more responsibility down back, he'd get similar numbers - entirely possible. Given the ball is likely to be heading down back more often over the next few months though, I'd be loathe to shift a key piece out of that line and plopping him on a wing. Would rather Williams be the one to move forward.

And this is my point, thank you for making it with much more detail than I did.

 

[Arr0w]

Doch intercepts, controls the backline and is involved in sweeping up the play far more often

Multi-year long agendas remain your play.

And this is my point, thank you for making it with much more detail than I did.

Lol falsifying facts now?

Uhuh, but Newman doesn't defend right?

None of your claims regarding Newman are actually factual, just a continued bias opinion

I mean your first post after the Dockers game was to single out Newman, a defender, when we were spanked between the arcs

Now claiming, along with another Willo fan, that he would do a better job than Newman

Hilarious stuff

 

[Shambolic]

I am far from a fan from LOB, but I think he is playing defensive wing but just so fit he gets up both ends as distinct from [everyone else on the list bar WAlsh].

You can see him back in the 50during the reserves but then up in to the 50 as well.

 

[Blue Bloods]

I am far from a fan from LOB, but I think he is playing defensive wing but just so fit he gets up both ends as distinct from [everyone else on the list bar WAlsh].

You can see him back in the 50during the reserves but then up in to the 50 as well.

LOB has his weakness, but surely has more upside than Newnes. Was a strange call replacing LOB with Newnes a few weeks ago. Thought he has looked promising at the start of the year in an area we struggle.

Hope he moves into Newnes wing this week.

 

[Gethelred]

I am far from a fan from LOB, but I think he is playing defensive wing but just so fit he gets up both ends as distinct from [everyone else on the list bar WAlsh].

You can see him back in the 50during the reserves but then up in to the 50 as well.

Both LOB and Cottrell run too well for VFL level. They frequently get off the chain due to sheer endurance, to say nothing of the fact that both are just that bit too fast for VFL. LOB is entirely too good a kick for VFL, Cotters too strong a mark.

But at present, neither is fast enough for AFL - as in, fast enough to compensate for the slower mids - and where LOB might make mistakes Cotters doesn't earn enough ball at AFL level and makes mistakes of his own.

Cottrell needs someone - Power, Voss, ****ing someone - to genuinely do nothing but drill his kicking. Hell, get him kicking on nothing other than his left for months on end. Drill him until his legs fall off. Drill him until he can kick and hit a bin with his eyes closed. Drill him until he can hit a target on his left or right barely a foot wide at 40m.

Then, drill him and LOB and Williamson with the KPF's. Drill them into kicking lanes. Drill them into timing kicks and leads. Drill them from set shot kicking and drill them on the run. Drill them until they know what to look for and when to look for it. Then, add a layer; drill Harry, Jack, Charlie with dummy leads. Drill the wings to recognise the dummies and go for the main. Drill the forwards to make it steadily more complex, including faux scenarios to avoid going inside 50, forcing the wings to take the best option. Tell the coaches to deliberately run the keys in patterns designed to trick the wings into taking the poor option, and see who picks the right one and promote THAT player!!!

I get that miracles don't happen overnight, but that's how I'd try to do it. Start simple, build in layers, have Walsh and Cerra sit in on a few sessions and ask for their input into training. We've been shit at developing overlap inside forward 50, and no small part of that is no talented wingers since Houlihan.

 

[Aphrodite]

Analysis: Carroll’s dual threat on show in VFL

Jack Carroll has been a strong contributor in recent weeks at VFL level.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Shambolic]

LOB has his weakness, but surely has more upside than Newnes. Was a strange call replacing LOB with Newnes a few weeks ago. Thought he has looked promising at the start of the year in an area we struggle.

Hope he moves into Newnes wing this week.

Don’t disagree at all on lob v newnes. Earlier comments were Re LOB in the Werribee game and Setters was the context. Newnes in the ones upsets me each time. It says to me we haven’t drafted well.


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[El Topo]

Don’t disagree at all on lob v newnes. Earlier comments were Re LOB in the Werribee game and Setters was the context. Newnes in the ones upsets me each time. It says to me we haven’t drafted well.


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Newnes is on the list as depth to keep the younger players honest and give them space to go back to the 2s as needed. Voss has shown that he rewards VFL form so I don't think Newnes' selection this year is the same issue as in 2021.