Analysis 2023 All Australian Team Awards Night

[Lingsface]

Coniglio? Mitchell? Over Dawson, Taranto and Daicos?

I think they have had underrated seasons
Mitchell is the first possesion getting it to the outside in the top team.
Coniglio is 6th in possesions in the league and 3rd in score involvements.

But this year is so hard to choose if they were chosen ahead I would have no problem with that. Dawson definitely could be named wing half back or on ball. Taranto has been very good but I don’t think he sets the world on fire with his skills. Daicos has been very good as well.

 

[Pomsta]

Jacob Weitering for FB AA it is.

Well it's either him or Tyler Young on those stats.

 

[eth-dog]

Rebound 50s are another main one.

Stewart's averages for intercepts and rebound 50s are still hurt (about 0.5-0.6 per game for each) by his round 1 start of game injury.

Vlastuin and Blakey are having underrated seasons. And there's enough elite tall intercepting defenders that 3 probably deserve to get in.

I kind of like Sinclair as a bench option and therefore a genuine utility. Squeezes Houston onto the back flank.

Best ones to measure offensive impact are score involvements and score launches IMO. Rebound 50's are nice but are usually dominated by kick out takers.

 

[Mr Meow]

Best ones to measure offensive impact are score involvements and score launches IMO. Rebound 50's are nice but are usually dominated by kick out takers.

Definitely something to consider. I think if it's coupled with high intercept possessions and marks it's a good guide though. And deeper players will get punished as there's more chances for the ball to die/be turned over by someone else i.e a lot is out of your hands (e.g Geelongs wingers are erratic at the moment so we are breaking down before F50 entries.

 

[Cringle]

Well it's either him or Tyler Young on those stats.

Enough room for both of them.

Brodie Kemp as 3rd tall.

 

[Back One Out]

I think they're useful exercises. Sicily has done really well and been in my team again but we are back to the games missed argument. Stewart missing 5 games last year really pushed it. I guess that's right around the cut off mark.

I’ve never viewed AA selection as a question of whether one guy played more games and accumulated more stats than another guy.

The idea is to pick the season’s best players… Pick the best team possible…

If two guys are dead equal, then maybe the number of games played can used as a tiebreaker.

Obviously there comes a point when a player misses too many games through injury or suspension.

Gary Ablett was pushing it in 2014 when he played only 14.5 games. He was selected in the All Australian team anyway because he was so brilliant in the games he did play and finished eq.3rd in the Brownlow.

Buddy Franklin was another good example when he missed 6 games in 2012. He was easily the best forward that year. Jack Riewoldt won the Coleman Medal (just), but the AA selectors opted for quality over quantity when they chose Buddy & Hawkins in the key forward posts.

Tom Stewart missed 5 matches last season, but the AA selectors deemed him one of the best defenders in the comp


Sicily has missed 4 games in 2023. I don’t think that’s “too many”.

There have been plenty of past All Australians who missed 3 or 4 games. It was never held against them. The selectors just picked the best players.

I may be biased, but I think Sicily is easily one of the best defenders in the comp with his intercepting, his poise and his beautiful long kicking out of defence to set up attacks.

He has been outstanding again this year. Provided he stays out of trouble and plays out the season, I see no reason why the selectors won’t pick him. It won’t make up for their grave error when they overlooked him last year. But at least they won’t be making the same mistake twice.

If he played for one if the top teams, he would be a shoo in. It’s just unfortunate for Sic that the Hawks are so bad and most people don’t bother to watch our games. (I think this is the main reason why he gets overlooked by some people)

Sicily is great in the air, very good on the ground, deceptively quick (much better than other tall defenders once the ball hits the deck). He is one of the best attacking weapons from the back half. Versatile too. Can punch above his weight and play at CHB and hold his own vs opposition talls. Equally well-suited to playing an attacking role as a loose interceptor in defence.

 

[STRONGandBALD]

Intercepts (avg)
10 or more games

J. Sicily (Haw) 9.33
J. Lever (Melb) 8.93
C. Ballard (Gold) 8.87
C. Wilkie (St K) 8.80
D. Moore (Coll) 8.67
N. Balta (Rich) 8.40
N. Vlastuin (Rich) 8.15
A. Aliir (Port) 7.87
T. Stewart (Geel) 7.64
H. Andrews (Bris) 7.53
N. Blakey (Syd) 7.20
J. Buckley (GWS) 7.13
S. Collins (Gold) 7.13
N. Haynes (GWS) 7.08
B. Cox (Freo) 7.07
I. Quaynor (Coll) 7.07
J. Weitering (Carl) 7.00
T. Barrass (WCE) 7.00
T. Rivers (Melb) 6.87
L. Young (Carl) 6.77
S. Frost (Haw) 6.64
B. McKay (NM) 6.64
A. Saad (Carl) 6.57
N. Broad (Rich) 6.55
M. Redman (Ess) 6.53
L. Ryan (Freo) 6.53
C. Idun (GWS) 6.47
D. Macpherson (G.C) 6.47
A. Pearce (Freo) 6.47
R. Fox (Syd) 6.45
E. Richards (W.B) 6.42
D. Howard (St K) 6.40
N. Murphy (Coll) 6.36
B. Zerk-Thatcher (Ess) 6.36
J. Battle (St K) 6.33
N. Newman (Carl) 6.31
G. Logue (NM) 6.29
J. Ziebell (NM) 6.27
E. Ratugolea (Geel) 6.25
J. Bowey (Melb) 6.23
A. McGrath (Ess) 6.20
S. May (Melb) 6.15
J. Ridley (Ess) 6.07
M. Hinge (Adel) 6.00
T. Doedee (Adel) 6.00
L. Baker (Rich) 5.93
D. Grimes (Rich) 5.93
B. Dale (W.B) 5.87
B. Maynard (Coll) 5.87
J. Payne (Bris) 5.86
W. Powell (G.C) 5.85
L. Whitfield (GWS) 5.85
W. Milera (Adel) 5.79
D. Rioli (Rich) 5.73
L. Stocker (St K) 5.73
L. McDonald (NM) 5.67
D. Williams (Port) 5.67
L. Jones (W.B) 5.64
M. McGovern (Carl) 5.64
J. Clark (Freo) 5.60
D. Houston (Port) 5.60
A. Brayshaw (Melb) 5.40
H. Young (Freo) 5.40
J. Sinclair (St K) 5.33
B. Starcevich (Bris) 5.33
B. Hardwick (Haw) 5.27
J. McVee (Melb) 5.27
A. Keath (W.B) 5.27
J. Lloyd (Syd) 5.20
N. Wanganeen-Milera (St K) 5.20
B. Long (G.C) 5.15
M. Bergman (Port) 5.13
J. Kelly (Ess) 5.10
S. Mitchell (Haw) 5.10
S. De Koning (Geel) 5.09
J. Bews (Geel) 5.08
…..
H. Sheezel (NM) 4.60
…..
N. Daicos (Coll) 3.73


I’m not hanging shiit on Daicos. Just including his surprisingly low number because he is in everyone’s team at half back and “intercepts” is basically a defender-dominated stat (as shown by the list above)

Naicos is probably the least accountable defender in the game. Pies being good atm and his kick ins cover him up.

If he was at WC he’d be performing like a pick 40 player.

 

[Back One Out]

I see people on here picking 3 key defenders (Andrews, Moore, Ballard) and 3 rebounding half backs (Daicos, Sinclair, Houston)

It’s crazy IMO to pick that many smaller defenders who don’t actually defend. AFL teams have ONE player in that loose attacking role. Not three.

Tom Stewart is taller, but he plays a similar attacking rebound role. Maybe more of a defensive sweeper.

People need to decide between Daicos, Stewart, Sinclair and Houston for the 2 half back flanks instead of trying to fit them all in.

 

[Mr Meow]

I’ve never viewed AA selection as a question of whether one guy played more games and accumulated more stats than another guy.

The idea is to pick the season’s best players… Pick the best team possible…

If two guys are dead equal, then maybe the number of games played can used as a tiebreaker.

Obviously there comes a point when a player misses too many games through injury or suspension.

Gary Ablett was pushing it in 2014 when he played only 14.5 games. He was selected in the All Australian team anyway because he was so brilliant in the games he did play and finished eq.3rd in the Brownlow.

Buddy Franklin was another good example when he missed 6 games in 2012. He was easily the best forward that year. Jack Riewoldt won the Coleman Medal (just), but the AA selectors opted for quality over quantity when they chose Buddy & Hawkins in the key forward posts.

Tom Stewart missed 5 matches last season, but the AA selectors deemed him one of the best defenders in the comp


Sicily has missed 4 games in 2023. I don’t think that’s “too many”.

There have been plenty of past All Australians who missed 3 or 4 games. It was never held against them. The selectors just picked the best players.

I may be biased, but I think Sicily is easily one of the best defenders in the comp with his intercepting, his poise and his beautiful long kicking out of defence to set up attacks.

He has been outstanding again this year. Provided he stays out of trouble and plays out the season, I see no reason why the selectors won’t pick him. It won’t make up for their grave error when they overlooked him last year. But at least they won’t be making the same mistake twice.

If he played for one if the top teams, he would be a shoo in. It’s just unfortunate for Sic that the Hawks are so bad and most people don’t bother to watch our games. (I think this is the main reason why he gets overlooked by some people)

Sicily is great in the air, very good on the ground, deceptively quick (much better than other tall defenders once the ball hits the deck). He is one of the best attacking weapons from the back half. Versatile too. Can punch above his weight and play at CHB and hold his own vs opposition talls. Equally well-suited to playing an attacking role as a loose interceptor in defence.

I see people on here picking 3 key defenders (Andrews, Moore, Ballard) and 3 small rebounding half backs (Daicos, Sinclair, Houston)

It’s crazy IMO to pick that many smaller defenders who don’t actually defend. AFL teams have ONE player in that loose attacking role. Not three.

I guess with Sicily I'm talking in terms of rolling teams after this round - 4 of 16 games missed is 25% which is starting to push closer to the threshold minus an incredibly standout season. But I do otherwise agree with your point, it's just that these things are often close when we aren't talking about peak GAJ or Franklin.

Sicily would be perfect choice for CHB in the AA team, I've said that for a couple of years now, but also fits as the third intercepting tall in a back pocket very well (which is one of the main reasons I said Allir isn't in my team).

I agree with most of what you're saying but at the same time players like Sinclair and N.Daicos feel like musts. As always we're somewhere stuck between what we think the classic AA structure will be, and what a better balanced team with positional logic would be. Somewhere between the two is where I fit I guess.

Players like Stewart and Sicily are valuable because of their multifaceted games. There's not stacks of players like them who juggle attack/defence from the D50 - often the deepest man. That's why I think with current form at the very least one will be selected again. I wouldn't mind Sicily getting a crack because it's long overdue.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I see people on here picking 3 key defenders (Andrews, Moore, Ballard) and 3 rebounding half backs (Daicos, Sinclair, Houston)

It’s crazy IMO to pick that many smaller defenders who don’t actually defend. AFL teams have ONE player in that loose attacking role. Not three.

Tom Stewart is taller, but he plays a similar attacking rebound role. Maybe more of a defensive sweeper.

People need to decide between Daicos, Stewart, Sinclair and Houston for the 2 half back flanks instead of trying to fit them all in.

No point in the punters picking the AA team like a real team if the actual recognised selectors don't.

However i would like to see an alternative AA team comprised of the best players resembling what is generally regarded as a normal football team e.g AA team would comprise of the best:

wingers (Martin, J Daicos, McLuggage etc)
Lockdown KD (Payne, Murphy etc)
Lockdown SD (Michelanny, Quaynor etc)
Pressure Fwds (SPP, Close, Rohan, McReery etc)
Second ruck / KF (Finlayson, Cox, Jackson etc)

 

[VinnieB]

I’ve never viewed AA selection as a question of whether one guy played more games and accumulated more stats than another guy.

The idea is to pick the season’s best players… Pick the best team possible…

If two guys are dead equal, then maybe the number of games played can used as a tiebreaker.

Obviously there comes a point when a player misses too many games through injury or suspension.

Gary Ablett was pushing it in 2014 when he played only 14.5 games. He was selected in the All Australian team anyway because he was so brilliant in the games he did play and finished eq.3rd in the Brownlow.

Buddy Franklin was another good example when he missed 6 games in 2012. He was easily the best forward that year. Jack Riewoldt won the Coleman Medal (just), but the AA selectors opted for quality over quantity when they chose Buddy & Hawkins in the key forward posts.

Tom Stewart missed 5 matches last season, but the AA selectors deemed him one of the best defenders in the comp


Sicily has missed 4 games in 2023. I don’t think that’s “too many”.

There have been plenty of past All Australians who missed 3 or 4 games. It was never held against them. The selectors just picked the best players.

I may be biased, but I think Sicily is easily one of the best defenders in the comp with his intercepting, his poise and his beautiful long kicking out of defence to set up attacks.

He has been outstanding again this year. Provided he stays out of trouble and plays out the season, I see no reason why the selectors won’t pick him. It won’t make up for their grave error when they overlooked him last year. But at least they won’t be making the same mistake twice.

If he played for one if the top teams, he would be a shoo in. It’s just unfortunate for Sic that the Hawks are so bad and most people don’t bother to watch our games. (I think this is the main reason why he gets overlooked by some people)

Sicily is great in the air, very good on the ground, deceptively quick (much better than other tall defenders once the ball hits the deck). He is one of the best attacking weapons from the back half. Versatile too. Can punch above his weight and play at CHB and hold his own vs opposition talls. Equally well-suited to playing an attacking role as a loose interceptor in defence.

Sicily should still make the AA team. Fully deserves to be in the team.

 

[VinnieB]

Naicos is probably the least accountable defender in the game. Pies being good atm and his kick ins cover him up.

If he was at WC he’d be performing like a pick 40 player.

He may well be the best midfielder in the game. Has played there last 2 weeks and received 9 and 10 coaches' votes...

 

[adammania9]

Naicos is probably the least accountable defender in the game. Pies being good atm and his kick ins cover him up.

If he was at WC he’d be performing like a pick 40 player.

Why would you want the best field kick in the game and one of the best runners wasting their time watching inferior forwards?

 

[HeHateMe]

Ive been holding off commenting because I'm waiting for his form post his return but right now Sicily hasn't really fallen far statistically even though he has missed a couple. Probably shows how dominant he was for a part of this season.

Needs to finish the year strong as do all players but Sicily should still be in your squads or in the mix.

Regarding Naicos, he has been spending more time through the middle so I get that argument but when he was playing mostly as an attacking HB he was the best at it. If they end up shifting him off HB he makes the team somewhere else anyway. Sinclair is the one I think is a little more at risk tbh.

 

[Apex36]

Naicos is probably the least accountable defender in the game. Pies being good atm and his kick ins cover him up.

If he was at WC he’d be performing like a pick 40 player.

You’re right bro. Daicos had 73 disposals in the last fortnight, but if you take away all the kick ins he had, his total goes down to a paltry 73 disposals. Covering himself up like a boss.

 

[longdonkey]

I guess with Sicily I'm talking in terms of rolling teams after this round - 4 of 16 games missed is 25% which is starting to push closer to the threshold minus an incredibly standout season. But I do otherwise agree with your point, it's just that these things are often close when we aren't talking about peak GAJ or Franklin.

Sicily would be perfect choice for CHB in the AA team, I've said that for a couple of years now, but also fits as the third intercepting tall in a back pocket very well (which is one of the main reasons I said Allir isn't in my team).

I agree with most of what you're saying but at the same time players like Sinclair and N.Daicos feel like musts. As always we're somewhere stuck between what we think the classic AA structure will be, and what a better balanced team with positional logic would be. Somewhere between the two is where I fit I guess.

Players like Stewart and Sicily are valuable because of their multifaceted games. There's not stacks of players like them who juggle attack/defence from the D50 - often the deepest man. That's why I think with current form at the very least one will be selected again. I wouldn't mind Sicily getting a crack because it's long overdue.

Sicily and Stewart are both valuable assets and if they play 23 rounds they would 100% be in the team. Stewart's form was down at the beginning of the season and in my team in particular he's had some ordinary games when I've watched.

The logic that I use is that if you miss 4 games out of 23 you have missed 17% of the season.

In my opinion there is no player in the competition is 17% better than the next best player. If someone wants to statistically challenge this view I'm happy to see the numbers.

But in my opinion if you miss 4 games you are not in the best 22 players in the competition for that year.

 

[Sea fog]

Jacob Weitering for FB AA it is.

I think they're useful exercises. Sicily has done really well and been in my team again but we are back to the games missed argument. Stewart missing 5 games last year really pushed it. I guess that's right around the cut off mark.

It’s just one aspect of being a defender

Weitering is very good at locking down on his opponent, but he doesn’t give his team as much rebound & drive out of defence like some of the other key defenders do.

AA selectors have generally been reluctant to pick the pure spoiling full backs in the past (e.g. Simon Prestigiacomo, Max Hudghton, Tom Lonergan, etc.)

I mainly posted those 1v1 stats because it’s interesting to compare the various AA contenders and see how they stack up alongside all the other AFL key backs

These can be skewed because some defenders don't play on the best forward. Who are the 1 on 1s against?

 

[HeHateMe]

Sicily and Stewart are both valuable assets and if they play 23 rounds they would 100% be in the team. Stewart's form was down at the beginning of the season and in my team in particular he's had some ordinary games when I've watched.

The logic that I use is that if you miss 4 games out of 23 you have missed 17% of the season.

In my opinion there is no player in the competition is 17% better than the next best player. If someone wants to statistically challenge this view I'm happy to see the numbers.

But in my opinion if you miss 4 games you are not in the best 22 players in the competition for that year.

I can challenge it, only 3 games right now but:

Intercepts:
Ballard: 1st
Wilkie: 2nd
Moore: 3rd
Aliir: 6th
Andrews: 7th
Sicily: 8th

Rebound 50s:
Ballard: 61st
Wilkie: 23rd
Moore: 13th
Aliir: 50th
Andrews: 55th
Sicily: 8th

Marks:
Ballard: 8th
Wilkie: 3rd
Moore: 15th
Aliir: 45th
Andrews: 5th
Sicily: 2nd

Contested Marks
Ballard: 1st
Wilkie: 11th
Moore: 2nd
Aliir: 5th
Andrews: 8th
Sicily: 9th

Effective Disposals:
Ballard: 67th
Wilkie: 26th
Moore: 42nd
Aliir: 100th
Andrews: 55th
Sicily: 15th

Meters Gained:
Ballard: 85th
Wilkie: 50th
Moore: 53rd
Aliir: 109th
Andrews: 83rd
Sicily: 27th

One v one loss %
Ballard: 19th
Wilkie: 32nd
Moore: 10th
Aliir: 26th
Andrews: 14th
Sicily: 4th

Now I'm not saying Sicily should be in your side and is a lock like I was a month ago, he is in the pack but isn't being blown out of the water in any obvious category I could find and is ahead in some other areas compared to his peers.

If he finishes the year better then the others he makes it, as goes with the others.

 

[longdonkey]

I can challenge it, only 3 games right now but:

Intercepts:
Ballard: 1st
Wilkie: 2nd
Moore: 3rd
Aliir: 6th
Andrews: 7th
Sicily: 8th

Rebound 50s:
Ballard: 61st
Wilkie: 23rd
Moore: 13th
Aliir: 50th
Andrews: 55th
Sicily: 8th

Marks:
Ballard: 8th
Wilkie: 3rd
Moore: 15th
Aliir: 45th
Andrews: 5th
Sicily: 2nd

Contested Marks
Ballard: 1st
Wilkie: 11th
Moore: 2nd
Aliir: 5th
Andrews: 8th
Sicily: 9th

Effective Disposals:
Ballard: 67th
Wilkie: 26th
Moore: 42nd
Aliir: 100th
Andrews: 55th
Sicily: 15th

Meters Gained:
Ballard: 85th
Wilkie: 50th
Moore: 53rd
Aliir: 109th
Andrews: 83rd
Sicily: 27th

One v one loss %
Ballard: 19th
Wilkie: 32nd
Moore: 10th
Aliir: 26th
Andrews: 14th
Sicily: 4th

Now I'm not saying Sicily should be in your side and is a lock like I was a month ago, he is in the pack but isn't being blown out of the water in any obvious category I could find and is ahead in some other areas compared to his peers.

If he finishes the year better then the others he makes it, as goes with the others.

I like the metrics that you are using. Sicily was in my team for about the month before his suspension.

I am looking for high intercepts, high contested marks, high metres gained and high defensive 50 metrics.

If you add Luke Ryan to this list he will compare very favourably. I have him and Aliir in my team and Aliir is the one who is most likely to go out.

I have Andrews & Moore in my team. Wilkie I don't rate due to bad disposal and not good one on one, and Ballard is the most likely to come in.

 

[TheUnicorn]

Champion Data's All Australian team and who's pushing close to selection etc.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Close to the money

 

[Apex36]

Close to the money

Martin over Josh Daicos is why champion data should never be trusted with player ratings

 

[RUNVS]

Close to the money

I think Blakey is near AA selection so I like this team a lot but I know a lot of people don't have him there.

 

[HeHateMe]

I like the Blakey selection, the games I've seen him play he has a big impact with his Intercepts ground and air and breakaway from contests. Plays like the way Will Day does when he is down back so it catches my eye. He seems to get a pretty important job as well defensively.

Quick look at his stats he is in the mix with the others. The thing with champion data they tend to have better stats for the defensive side of the game than what we have available. His player rankings is about equal with Sicilys and they are 5th and 6th overall for defenders.

Blakey:
9th for Intercepts
15th for Rebound 50s
50th for Marks
42nd for Contested Marks
23rd Effective Disposals
22nd Meters Gained

 

[Mr Meow]

I think Blakey is near AA selection so I like this team a lot but I know a lot of people don't have him there.

Blakey is a decent shout and has been in very good form - especially recently. People have slept on Swans players during the injury crisis.

The team isn't terrible but the lack of J.Daicos is weird. Macrae and Bolton are also more midfielders, I did have Bolton on a flank but he's playing there less and less. No Charlie Cameron!