List Mgmt. 2023 Draft/Trade/FA thread

[Scythe]

Seems a good time to pin this:


OOC players:

• Michael Hibberd (retired)
• Deakyn Smith (delisted)
• Andy Moniz-Wakefield
• Jake Melksham (delisted, will be re-drafted as a rookie)
• Luke Dunstan (retired)
• James Jordon (signed with Sydney as a Free Agent)
• Kye Turner (delisted)

Traded out:

• James Harmes (Bulldogs)
• Brodie Grundy (Sydney)

Traded in:

• Tom Fullarton (Brisbane)
• Jack Billings (St Kilda)
• Shane McAdam (Adelaide)

Drafted:

• Caleb Windsor (Pick 7)
• Koltyn Tholstrup (Pick 13)
• Kynan Brown (Rookie)

 

[Demon13304]

I literally can't be funked arguing here anymore. You say your points, it gets ignored and you end up going around and around in circles

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Personally I've always had the view that it would have been good to have had a couple of cracks this draft with picks between 20-35. You can cherrypick examples of good picks and bad picks in that region but I think if you give yourself a couple of chances in that zone you're every chance of getting a good player.

I'm no draft expert but names like Collard, Schoenmaker and Jiath interest me in the 20s as players who have plenty of potential upside but you wouldn't stretch to take top 12. Maybe an alternative could have been to shuffle up a bit further into the 20s with the two picks we traded.

But I've also said from the start that our pick swap has to be judged on what we get out of pick 11 because we must have done the trade for a specific reason. But clearly it's not going to look great if pick 11 returns a so-so result and there's some really good kids in the 25-35 zone.

 

[Lord Nev]

New feather in the master trader's cap...

 

[BaliDemon]

Agree 100%. We have significantly weakened any hands we may been able to use for live trading opportunities or strengthening our 2024 draft hands for a 3 pick upgrade when we don’t even know whose going to be on the board at 11 and 14 anyway.

Pick 40 Neal-Bullen
Pick 31 Rivers
Pick 37 Petty
Pick 27 Sparrow
Pick 31 Fritsch

All premiership players.
Good AFL players.

But let’s just chuck 27 & 35 in the bin so we can move from 14 to 11.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Every draft pool always has the same depth to them for eternity.

 

[Scythe]

Pick 40 Neal-Bullen
Pick 31 Rivers
Pick 37 Petty
Pick 27 Sparrow
Pick 31 Fritsch

All premiership players.

But let’s just chuck 27 & 35 in the bin so we can move from 14 to 11.

I don't know how many times it needs to be said that we weren't going to use those picks regardless, but here we are again.

 

[BaliDemon]

I don't know how many times it needs to be said that we weren't going to use those picks regardless, but here we are again.

Then our whole list management strategy needs to be called into question. And as Mich0 has rightly pointed out, those picks would’ve provided bargaining chip power for this year and next.

Flushing them down the toilet for next to nothing was ludicrous.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Also keep in mind that the National Draft isn't the be-all and end-all that it once was. There are other means to recruit talent these days. DFA, SPP, MSD, and possibly MSTP.

 

[Lord Nev]

I don't know how many times it needs to be said that we weren't going to use those picks regardless, but here we are again.

Wouldn't bother explaining any further to the myriad of posters who can't grasp any kind of context around these kinds of things.

List spots, list needs, future planning, getting in before others on deals, quality of different drafts, targeted players etc etc. You can almost guarantee that many of those saying 'we should be using more picks!' have also said 'Goody is wasting our list!'...

 

[Scythe]

Then our whole list management strategy needs to be called into question. And as Mich0 has rightly pointed out, those picks would’ve provided bargaining chip power for this year and next.

Flushing them down the toilet for next to nothing was ludicrous.

Why? The picks spent on new players will be used to fill the spots of those we have delisted. Melksham and Moniz-Wakefield are the only two left OOC, and both deserve a new deal.

And how do you know it's 'nothing'? For all we know, the difference in talent between someone like Windsor and someone like Murphy or DeMattia could be massive, making it well worth the pick. I'd happily trust that Taylor and Lamb evaluated that in great depth when making the move.

The melts over two mid-late second rounders are quite bewildering. I'm all for due criticism of the club, but this just feels like a massive reach.

 

[dazzledavey36]

Oh dear.. some serious embarrassing melts going on here...

 

[MarcMaverick]

Melting at checks notes 19 degs is not healthy at all.

But, if you must, do it properly

 

[BaliDemon]

Why? The picks spent on new players will be used to fill the spots of those we have delisted. Melksham and Moniz-Wakefield are the only two left OOC, and both deserve a new deal.

And how do you know it's 'nothing'? For all we know, the difference in talent between someone like Windsor and someone like Murphy or DeMattia could be massive, making it well worth the pick. I'd happily trust that Taylor and Lamb evaluated that in great depth when making the move.

The melts over two mid-late second rounders are quite bewildering. I'm all for due criticism of the club, but this just feels like a massive reach.

I thought my argument that 1/4 of our 2021 premiership side was filled with blokes picked in the 25 - 40 range, was pretty solid.

I’m not sure I “happily trust” everything that Tim Lamb is doing at the moment (or of late). Keeping multiple spud forwards on the list too long plus this overreach for pick 1 has me doubting too many of his chess moves. The proof will be in the pudding but he’d want to be sure pick 11 is a bona fide gun and at least a full tier in quality above whoever’s picked at 14.

We’ve paid a hefty price for that ‘jump’.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Every draft pool always has the same depth to them for eternity.

Is this poetry?

 

[MarcMaverick]

Is this poetry?

Or a riddle.

 

[TheBoss]

The melts over two mid-late second rounders are quite bewildering. I'm all for due criticism of the club, but this just feels like a massive reach.

Because in a competitive setting where you have finite resources then it is in the club's interest to maximise value.

The pick swap trade is akin to spending $10 on a can of coke. Sure, you could argue that you got the can of coke that you coveted but it does not excuse that you overpaid for it by a fair margin.

I don't understand why criticising the poor value of this trade is such a controversial idea. Particularly when pick swaps can happen right up until draft night. It was not as if there was a burning platform to close out the deal during trade week.

Moving up those 3 spots was to have a crack at Harley Reid. That gambit failed. There was no specific target that they were moving up the board for.

Pick 14+27+35 have a draft index points equivalent around pick 3. I understand that draft index points are not the best indicator, but it just highlights how much capital we are burning.

 

[BaliDemon]

I don't understand why criticising the poor value of this trade is such a controversial idea. Particularly when pick swaps can happen right up until draft night. It was not as if there was a burning platform to close out the deal during trade week.

It’s the sort of slightly irrational “trust the club it never makes a bad decision” defensiveness one usually finds on Demonland.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Is this poetry?

Depth, pools and eternity. I can see where you are coming from. Completely unintentional.

 

[SugarHealey]

KPF but his Lisfranc injury is pretty bad,

Where has this info come from.?

 

[TheBoss]

It’s the sort of slightly irrational “trust the club it never makes a bad decision” defensiveness one usually finds on Demonland.

It was only a few weeks ago that me saying that '...maybe Bartlett had a point' went from being controversial and shouted down, to having people starting to agree when all the bad press started.

I think having different opinions on a discussion forum is great for discourse, but others prefer an echo chamber.

 

[BaliDemon]

It was only a few weeks ago that me saying that '...maybe Bartlett had a point' went from being controversial and shouted down, to having people starting to agree when all the bad press started.

I think having different opinions on a discussion forum is great for discourse, but others prefer an echo chamber.

Lemme tell ya ‘bout a lil’ phenomenon known around here as ‘The Clique’

 

[eaglevision]

Where has this info come from.?

Medical. Obviously I won’t be commenting on it further. Crows and Dees have obviously reassessed him and deemed that he is still of high value so hopefully all heading in the right direction, he’s a good bloke and a good player.

 

[TheBoss]

Not sure if this was discussed earlier but HS posted a mock draft.

It has us taking Leake (6) and Windsor (11).

Still a few weeks to play out.

 

[Demon13304]

It was only a few weeks ago that me saying that '...maybe Bartlett had a point' went from being controversial and shouted down, to having people starting to agree when all the bad press started.

I think having different opinions on a discussion forum is great for discourse, but others prefer an echo chamber.

It’s the sort of slightly irrational “trust the club it never makes a bad decision” defensiveness one usually finds on Demonland.

What are you guys on about
90% of posters have been ripping the club to shreds the last month, there has been a lotttt of criticism of the club. you're not different for continuing to do so lol
You could say that defending the club on this right now is going against your alleged "echo chamber"

We're just saying that some second round picks aren't worth melting over, especially before the draft as even happened

I don't understand why criticising the poor value of this trade is such a controversial idea.

Wait wait so do want discussion or not? Because what's happening is you're saying what you think, and other posters are discussing/disagreeing with you in which you've ignored several points that others have made and have just gone around and round again.

 

[BaliDemon]

What are you guys on about
90% of posters have been ripping the club to shreds the last month, there has been a lotttt of criticism of the club. you're not different for continuing to do so lol
You could say that defending the club on this right now is going against your alleged "echo chamber"

We're just saying that some second round picks aren't worth melting over, especially before the draft as even happened

Wait wait so do want discussion or not? Because what's happening is you're saying what you think, and other posters are discussing/disagreeing with you in which you've ignored several points that others have made and have just gone around and round again.

Bit rich to talk about others having a ‘melt’ when you’ve just had your very own one here