List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[s_wd6]

So we need to pick and choose who we show respect to and who we chuck the toys out of the cot for?

Correct. We respect players who show loyalty to the club and not players who look outwards the second they are told they have something to work on.

 

[rgauci]

You reckon that Treacy kicks more than double his goals because he doesn't spend 20% time in the ruck over about 5 or 6 games?


Fat chance

0.9 goals per game, vs 1.6 goals per game. Not quite double. The only time it makes any sense is if Darcy is leaving, which would be a terrible mistake to let him leave.

Otherwise you are investing salary cap and draft capital into an improvement of half a goal a game. It’s just not worth it. There is not enough room to play Darcy, Jackson, Amiss, Macdonald and Treacy. It would mean Treacy gets dropped to WAFL. Which is a waste of his talent and is poor list management.

I’d much rather use that draft capital and salary cap to improve our wings, which are probably the worst in the league. They will be the worst in the league if Henry leaves.

 

[freo_leo29]

0.9 goals per game, vs 1.6 goals per game. Not quite double. The only time it makes any sense is if Darcy is leaving, which would be a terrible mistake to let him leave.

Otherwise you are investing salary cap and draft capital into an improvement of half a goal a game. It’s just not worth it. There is not enough room to play Darcy, Jackson, Amiss, Macdonald and Treacy. It would mean Treacy gets dropped to WAFL. Which is a waste of his talent and is poor list management.

I’d much rather use that draft capital and salary cap to improve our wings, which are probably the worst in the league. They will be the worst in the league if Henry leaves.

If Treacy can have growth at 21 then Logan can too

If both double their output by age 24 then Logan looks even better

 

[Purple Suit]

Correct. We respect players who show loyalty to the club and not players who look outwards the second they are told they have something to work on.

But he wasn't the greatest player ever at the time of his first big contract. Look, the signs are pointing at Henry leaving but at no time should the club act before it has been confirmed and stop being professional.

Henry is being loyal by honoring his contract, never requesting a trade and trying as hard as he could to become a better player. Once his contract is up, we need to agree on a new one or we trade him. 12 months ago, he was looking at being delisted right about now anyway.

 

[s_wd6]

But he wasn't the greatest player ever at the time of his first big contract. Look, the signs are pointing at Henry leaving but at no time should the club act before it has been confirmed and stop being professional.

Henry is being loyal by honoring his contract, never requesting a trade and trying as hard as he could to become a better player. Once his contract is up, we need to agree on a new one or we trade him. 12 months ago, he was looking at being delisted right about now anyway.

Hence, why the club should sit down with him this week and confirm it. With 2 weeks left, nothing is changing.

And also, he requested a trade last year.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Freo will drive a hard bargain with Henry. I wouldn't be surprised if they ask for a 1st rounder.

 

[Purple Suit]

Hence, why the club should sit down with him this week and confirm it. With 2 weeks left, nothing is changing.

And also, he requested a trade last year.

Players don't always have their mind made up with 2 weeks left in the season. There is another 7 weeks till the trade period starts, plenty of time to consider offers and decide on your future. It's a big decision, forcing someone into making a rushed one is probably not going to be the best outcome or serve any purpose. It also works both ways, we might find an upgrade on Liam if he waits too long or spend our cap elsewhere.

He didn't request a trade, at least publicly from what remember. Jumping at more shadows?

 

[Mags98]

l

This is true to an extent but how I judge our team, or even say, our forward unit or midfield group, is by how they compare to the best sides in the comp that will be contending when we are.
Or even more specifically, how they compare to other sides in a similar phase of development to ourselves.
For example I’m not to stressed how we stack up in comparison to Geelong or Richmond or West coast. Even Collingwood and Brisbane are more mature sides that might find their window closing pretty fast, both have lots of players over 30.
We likely won’t be playing high stakes finals from 2025-2029 against those teams.
We should be comparing instead to teams like Adelaide, Sydney, GWS, Hawthorn, possibly even Gold Coast if they can get their act together. I would add north but they seem completely unable to develop the vast amount of high draft picks already there.

I would not say we have the best set of forwards out of that group of teams. I think we definitely need to improve it, to get to a point where we are not just contending, but actually winning.
In saying that I think the gaps are in our small forward group as opposed to our talls. The emergence of Sturt has added a second medium/tall option that can hopefully be relied on to kick goals consistently in addition to Amiss.
The Sonny Walters replacement is what bothers me. Pickett would have been perfect.

lucky enough for us then it seems small forwards can come in straight away and have a great impact year 1 (kozi, ginnivan, rachelle, stevo etc) so happy for that to be the last piece rather than a tall

 

[Dockeroo]

l

lucky enough for us then it seems small forwards can come in straight away and have a great impact year 1 (kozi, ginnivan, rachelle, stevo etc) so happy for that to be the last piece rather than a tall

If Henry goes to the pies I’d ask for Ginnivan

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

But he wasn't the greatest player ever at the time of his first big contract. Look, the signs are pointing at Henry leaving but at no time should the club act before it has been confirmed and stop being professional.

Henry is being loyal by honoring his contract, never requesting a trade and trying as hard as he could to become a better player. Once his contract is up, we need to agree on a new one or we trade him. 12 months ago, he was looking at being delisted right about now anyway.

Sorry mate, this just seems like head in the sand type stuff about how trades and player movement works

 

[s_wd6]

Players don't always have their mind made up with 2 weeks left in the season. There is another 7 weeks till the trade period starts, plenty of time to consider offers and decide on your future. It's a big decision, forcing someone into making a rushed one is probably not going to be the best outcome or serve any purpose. It also works both ways, we might find an upgrade on Liam if he waits too long or spend our cap elsewhere.

He didn't request a trade, at least publicly from what remember. Jumping at more shadows?

He requested a trade. Was never officially announced bc Freo weren’t going to entertain it. That didn’t stop Colin from trying to make it happen, hence why Henry’s name was in the whiteboard.

 

[Purple Suit]

Sorry mate, this just seems like head in the sand type stuff about how trades and player movement works

So you wouldn't play him in the last two games? Seems like an unprofessional dummy spit to me.

 

[Purple Suit]

If Henry goes to the pies I’d ask for Ginnivan

I just threw up in my mouth a bit.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

So you wouldn't play him in the last two games? Seems like an unprofessional dummy spit to me.

Oh no, I don’t agree with that either (though I understand his position), im more talking about the general reasoning on Henry staying or going. Everyone in the club absolutely knows if hes staying or going at this point

 

[Purple Suit]

Oh no, I don’t agree with that either (though I understand his position), im more talking about the general reasoning on Henry staying or going. Everyone in the club absolutely knows if hes staying or going at this point

While you're 95% right & all signs point towards going, what happens if Henry hasn't decided yet or changes his mind? Is that impossible in the modern footy world?

It rarely happens with someone out of contract in recent times but I think Gaff was one who was off to North and changed his mind (backfired terribly for WC in the end). It also happens with no name players this late but probably more to do with list spots / trade interest / depth decisions than clubs wanting to retain.

 

[Paracleet]

While you're 95% right & all signs point towards going, what happens if Henry hasn't decided yet or changes his mind? Is that impossible in the modern footy world?

It rarely happens with someone out of contract in recent times but I think Gaff was one who was off to North and changed his mind (backfired terribly for WC in the end). It also happens with no name players this late but probably more to do with list spots / trade interest / depth decisions than clubs wanting to retain.

He's right it does happen. There are multiple factors that can come into play. Situations can change at target clubs too (trade capital reduced by other deals or unexpectedly good performance. Salarary cap availability changes for similar reasons.). That there is talk on official afl media he might stay on a short deal is unlikely to be made-up.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

While you're 95% right & all signs point towards going, what happens if Henry hasn't decided yet or changes his mind? Is that impossible in the modern footy world?

It rarely happens with someone out of contract in recent times but I think Gaff was one who was off to North and changed his mind (backfired terribly for WC in the end). It also happens with no name players this late but probably more to do with list spots / trade interest / depth decisions than clubs wanting to retain.

I dont think we differ here. I'd agree that I am 95% sure he's leaving. Of course, things can change and sometimes they do but I'll put it in the certainty bucket until proven otherwise. I'd have a slight addendum and say with 99.9% certainty the club and Henry know what he's doing and the 0.1% is the extreme unlikely scenario he backflips at this stage of the game.

I dont agree with dropping him regardless

 

[Taylor]

That there is talk on official afl media he might stay on a short deal is unlikely to be made-up.

All that this requires is that there is an offer for that on the table, or even a hint of that on the table.

The reality is that Fremantle need to have an offer of some description to him to prevent him from being able to be delisted.

 

[Taylor]

I dont agree with dropping him regardless

I'm very curious to see what happens at the ground on Sunday..

 

[Superkoops]

If Henry goes the deal has to include either of the following:
- a very good second (between 20-25);
Or
- an upgrade of our first pick into the first round along with an upgrade of one of our thirds

I would then target Dylan Stephens

15

Dylan Stephens

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

and he would have knowledge that there is a opening on the wing every week at Freo.

Sydney list manager Kinnear Beatson was more coy (than Walls and Belly on Henry) when answering a question about him staying with Sydney (on the Gettable segment). He also thought Dylan played full game but was again sub.

Also read this on AFL.com.au
“Sydney also continues to wait on a decision over the future of the club's former top-five pick Dylan Stephens, with the classy midfielder still weighing up a contract offer amid rival interest.”

Reckon a second round pick would get the deal done. Say we end up with pick in the 30’s as part of upgrading a third.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

If Henry goes the deal has to include either of the following:
- a very good second (between 20-25);
Or
- an upgrade of our first pick into the first round along with an upgrade of one of our thirds

I would then target Dylan Stephens and he would have knowledge that there is a opening on the wing every week at Freo.

Sydney list manager Kinnear Beatson was more coy (than Walls and Belly on Henry) when answering a question about him staying with Sydney (on the Gettable segment). He also thought Dylan played full game but was again sub.

Also read this on AFL.com.au
“Sydney also continues to wait on a decision over the future of the club's former top-five pick Dylan Stephens, with the classy midfielder still weighing up a contract offer amid rival interest.”

Reckon a second round pick would get the deal done. Say we end up with pick in the 30’s as part of upgrading a third.

Stephens sounds like he's going to North.

I think getting a 1st in someway for Henry (even if that's upgrading pick 21) will be important for future trading plans. Without checking, taking a 1st rounder this year will help with satisfying the "number of 1st round picks across 4 years" rule if we are chasing a big name next year.

 

[Joao]

How much of the Henry palaver is due to Colin Young’s TV show wanting to draw out the drama?

The thought crossed my mind but I doubt Freo would play along.

If Henry goes to the pies I’d ask for Ginnivan

I know he can play but he is completely unlikable. Don't want. He'd have to be a LOT better before I'd be interested.

 

[Taylor]

Stephens sounds like he's going to North.

I think getting a 1st in someway for Henry (even if that's upgrading pick 21) will be important for future trading plans. Without checking, taking a 1st rounder this year will help with satisfying the "number of 1st round picks across 4 years" rule if we are chasing a big name next year.

We are still okay to trade our future first in the 2024 trade period because of Jye Amiss and Neil Erasmus in 2021.

 

[Alfonz]

Stephens hasn't impressed me. Looks quite average to me and not really interested. If he wasn't drafted so high, nobody would even be talking about him. McAsey is a stone cold dud, but the rest of that top 15 have all shown way more (albeit only recently from Henry and Flanders).

 

[s_wd6]

The thought crossed my mind but I doubt Freo would play along.

I know he can play but he is completely unlikable. Don't want. He'd have to be a LOT better before I'd be interested.

Ginnivan is unlikeable in the same way Ballas was. It's nice having an annoying player that gets under oppo players and fans skin when he plays for your team.