Autopsy 2023 Preliminary Final Blues brave season comes to an end

[manang magoos]

The way I see it he will have an insurmountable lead if he gets at least 2 votes. Will take him to 20. Nobody left will have more then 10 votes by the end of this round (Degoey will be on 10).

He played a game worthy of 7-8 votes. Was definately in the top 3 players on the ground. Loss might see other players rewarded and get 4-6 but should still be enough. The game was pretty close so a Carlton player needs to get some votes and he was clearly the best.

Grand final votes apparently rated at 1.5 so if player gets 10 votes will receive 15

 

[Stamos]

Our “extremely flawed” coach got us to our first prelim in 23 years, and massively overachieved based on every single person’s expectations coming into the season.

That's not true. Post Round 15 expectations sure, but not pre-season expectations.
We absolutely should have made the Prelim, and we did.

 

[Stamos]

Grand final votes apparently rated at 1.5 so if player gets 10 votes will receive 15

Didn't know that. Fair enough.

 

[JJBagger]

That's not true. Post Round 15 expectations sure, but not pre-season expectations.
We absolutely should have made the Prelim, and we did.

No one had us getting close to top 4 this year going into round 1. the vast majority of fans and media people I saw comment on it said that a home final and a finals win was the pass mark. To have gotten within 3 goals of a granny is massive compared to even those expectations

 

[F_therest]

It hurts I know. But you have to be so proud of how they performed in the second half of this season.

After no September action in a decade, winning 4 straight finals and ultimately a GF was going to be a significant stretch! We need to be battle hardened and experience in big finals gives us that.

They looked mentally and physically spent. Gave it everything in the first qtr but then we had nothing else to give.

Lions keep adding layers to their team and performance and they are cherry ripe for this.

Collingwood are good. Brisbane are better.

Lions by 4 goals.

Yep both Brisbane and Collingwood have been pretty consistent finalists over the last 5 years...both have lost multiple prelim finals in this time and Collingwood a Grand Final in 2018. Both have paid their dues so to speak to deserve their spot next week. Us winning would have come from absolutely no where.

Both teams have way more finals experience than us and ultimately, the extra game we had to play plus playing at the Gabba arguably cost us.

Top 4 essential next year.

 

[BlueBayou]

Thank you and thank you all. I can't say we share a tradition, I can appreciate yours. I can't say the issues that plagued federation didn't impact the uptake of the AFL in NSW. AFL has been played in NSW for over a century and yet has faced major headwinds in an attempt to be snuffed out by NRL. I don't know why the AFL went with creating a new team instead of uplifting an existing one.

I can say I love this game and would love nothing more than to see us both at the very top of the ladder next season. We don't have tradition, that is right, but you can bring and share your tradition with us.

Much respect for you and your team, I wish we had the same traditions here but we don't. We do have belief, belief from people from AFL strongholds who believe that AFL can take off here. It can be very lonely place living in NRL territory, where there's an oversaturation of NRL to snuff out any other sport.

Gutted for my team, gutted for yours and that's not to take away from the way you guys are feeling.

Again, I apologise if my remarks were taken the wrong way. That is down to my inability to write what I am thinking with clarity. I think the Giants are a fantastic football team, and I thought probably the best team of the year, despite losing a few they shouldn't have. You were a single mistake away from knocking the filth out of the finals, and then likely to go all the way.

The Giants will be a force for the forseeable future. That is how traditions are made.....

 

[gbatman]

All the doom and gloom and we lost a prelim on the road by just 16 points. The argument that we lost to pace isn't entirely accurate. We lost because our strength was at stoppage and we got destroyed at stoppage in the second quarter.

Their pace would not have been as damaging if we didn't let them waltz out of every stoppage with barely any pressure. Our bulls didn't play well enough.

Also I get having Saad on Cameron and he did a pretty good job but then we lost his pace and line breaking in attack. And people calling for Fisher, I don't get it. He is fast and accumulates but he panics and plays for himself too much. Having Boyd, Williams and Saad across half back next year should make the team look faster.

Looking forward to 2024 and after two half seasons I'm hoping they can finally play top level footy for a whole season and finish top 2.

On Pixel 4 using BigFooty.com mobile app

So you're saying we lost because we are a one dimensional team that is too heavily reliant on winning stoppage and contested ball? If we don't win stoppages we can't win games? Sounds like a teams structure issue to me.

Our strength during our winning streak was stoppage and clearance work AND run and carry and our ability for our defence and midfield to connect with our forwards. But we destroyed the latter by removing our better run and carry players from the team.

We didn't go into finals with a clearance and contested ball issue so why did we change our team up to take all the run and carry out of the side. Why we changed the structure of the side for finals when there was no problem there makes no sense.

The Brisbane Lions are one of the best contested sides and the best clearance side in the finals statistically. It's fair to assume you might go up there and equal them but beat them and beat them on this alone, no way. You beat them by equalling their clearance and contested work and with good run and carry and allowing our forward line to kick a strong score.

Their run and carry and run from stoppage was huge. It looked like us at our best. Our run and carry has not existed all finals series. Only in spurts. Pretty much only when Walsh or Saad has it.

They waltzed out of stoppages because they were quicker and more agile and their rucks were ontop. Cripps, Kennedy, Hewett don't have the agility their mids do. Cerra can hardly move. Walsh and Dow are our only real agile mids at the moment. Too many trucks in a car race.

We could do with some shorter mids in there who have good lateral movements. Rayner and Neale are lightning with their sidestep work which is super important.

Saad on Cameron was a good matchup but it robbed us of all our run. Cincotta was stiff and sore, should not have played. Boyd was a good selection. Fisher should have came in to help with rebound knowing Saad was going to be tied up on Cameron and Boyd was coming in from not having played in months.

2024 will be awesome, just hope we embrace the run and carry part of the game more than we did this finals series and we have a good run with injuries.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

Great effort boys to make a Prelim very proud. Also very proud that we didn't get blown away it certainly looked that way in the third. Amazing we got to within three kicks in the last, our never say die attitude held us in good stead.

We can talk about who played and who shouldn't have played, who played well and who played poorly but to me the thing that cost us dearly were the basic errors we made which brought Brisbane back into the game. We had the same problems vs Sydney and Melbourne but were somehow able to still win. I guess as you go deeper it gets harder. I thought we needed everything to go right but as it stands we still could've won had we maintained composure and been able to hit easy targets.

I guess without wanting to point fingers the biggest let down was Charlie who really needed to stand up in this game if we were to win. I can understand it's harder to mark the ball in finals but in all three finals his opponent outmarked him far too many times for my liking. Must at aleast bring the ball to ground. But hey we played finals on the back of Charlie's brilliance. I'm sure he'll be back bigger and better than ever and should he get another chance, I'm positive he'll deliver.

Very proud of Harry played and absolute belter.

Boyd inclusion was genius. Stepped back into the side like he'd never missed a game. Cant believe his player rating was a 5 were they watching the same game?

In general I thought our key defenders played very well and beat their men, Weiters and Marchy hold your heads up high. Hopefully marchy can stay injury free next year.

Much to look forward to next year but now the long wait begins.

Did somebody say Spring Carnival? See you next year guys!

 

[manang magoos]

Insecure because I thought the giants were the best team of the year????
Facts seem to bother a lot of people.

Well Giants were obviously not best team of year as there not in the big dance unfortunately I hate too say it but best two are playing off

 

[Stamos]

No one had us getting close to top 4 this year going into round 1. the vast majority of fans and media people I saw comment on it said that a home final and a finals win was the pass mark. To have gotten within 3 goals of a granny is massive compared to even those expectations

I absolutely thought we should be top 4 going into this year.
We played like crap for a huge portion of the year and finished 3rd. It wasn't over-achievement. The turn-around was great, but that was only necessary because we were playing so poorly.

 

[bmaurizio]

Overall great effort by the boys second part of the season 2023 has been inspirational almost overwhelming so.
In yesterday’s game however Lions were the better team, with Coleman and Mcinerney the clear difference, Oscar belted the ball clear and to Lions advantage at will and Kiddy moved so sublimely our players seemed static.& inert.
Our playing list needs an overhaul to challenge the top 4, hopefully a clear plan is ready to go,.
Im confident it is and we‘re in good hands , team momentum is so incredibly positive , we should able to attract the ability, skill & speed required to make up the gap.
In Austin we trust.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Leg speed did not beat us last night

Sport is played above the shoulders. Are we saying we only had enough petrol for the first qtr? I call bulldust

What killed us was our inability to put scoreboard pressure on the Lions, and that included the last 6-8 minutes of the first qtr!!!

Scoreboard pressure changes the mindset of the opposition, including coaches...they don't necessarily play with their natural flair, they start to veer away from their system because they start panicking (ABOVE THE SHOULDERS)

Even coaches start panicking and throwing magnets around etc

Fix up our transition game and we win the flag in 2024!!!!!

 

[Giant YoYo]

Again, I apologise if my remarks were taken the wrong way. That is down to my inability to write what I am thinking with clarity. I think the Giants are a fantastic football team, and I thought probably the best team of the year, despite losing a few they shouldn't have. You were a single mistake away from knocking the filth out of the finals, and then likely to go all the way.

The Giants will be a force for the forseeable future. That is how traditions are made.....

All good.

I agree with you - the humans and their belief in this club is phenomenal. I'm all in and I'm not even from AFL territory. They're absolutely brilliant, as is your club.

 

[Neese]

I am going to watch again before I comment further because you miss a heap watching while at the pub.
I woke up this morning still super proud and trust the recruiters to fill in the last couple of gaps and the coaches and players to work on the deficiencies.
I also acknowledge that there was a lot of tired and sore players out there and happy they finished the match off strongly.
Lastly go Brisbane.

 

[gbatman]

One thing I noticed Brisbane do very well they get ball to 0-30 in front goal very well and seem to maintain space there where our 0-30 in front goal is always congested whoever we play

Ball movement. Carry the ball quickly, go as direct as possible, get it past the press and into the open space. We were doing that a lot second half of this season. Particularly the game against Port Adelaide. Pretty much most games where Charlie kicked a bag or we kicked a big score. We were opening the forward line up.

That's what happens when you dump all your run and carry players out of the team.

You move the ball slow. No carry just slow boundry play or bombing it into the press. This allows the press to keep falling back until it's in your forward line.

Long story short it's a race between the ball and the opposition's press into your forward line. If the press gets back first it's congested and scoring is unlikely and it's just crash and bash and injuries. If the ball beats the press into the forward 50 then it's open, forwards can just lead into space, just have to hit them, our you go straight at them and they have a one on one. Very likely to score.

Brisbane were running with the ball, that opened their forward line up, it also ran our legs off trying to defend that play and get our press back.

We didn't run with the ball after the first quarter. Which left petrol in Brisbane's tank, because we were easy to defend against, no hard running for them. Which allowed them to stay fresh, run with the ball and open our forward line up.

Teams selection. Too many of our better ball carriers in the stands and not on the field.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

To clarify - wasn’t the scared panic of last year, we weren’t scared or nervous, but 1 goal in a half of footy is a definite “shat” especially when u have a 5 goal head start

Calm down mate. We had a lot of banged up players out there and I'm not sure there was any other team that would've been able to do better against them last night.

These things take time to build, Lions finally won a prelim after losing a couple. We weren't embarrassed out there and we took it to them till the end despite the situation.

Main thing is to build from this result next year and use it to drive us to go all the way. We got close, no doubt that'll give them confidence that their best stacks up against anyone.

 

[Neese]

I'm not sure it was team selection. More Brisbane had a week off and we were well tired and carrying injuries.
More I think about it the more I am impressed with this team. Imagine we come out firing next year instead of coming from 15th position. Way more positives than negatives this season.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

What a great year it has been for the club, the team took us one hell of a ride and the growth in all areas of the club has been amazing. Watching football is a thing of joy again, I'm proud of the way we have managed to turn the corner.

With another big pre season behind a lot of our younger players, we should come out bigger and better in 2024. We will capitalise on the strides we have made this year.

Plenty of reasons to be happy with things at the moment and I look forward to improvement again in 2024. We are back.

Having a high % able to complete pre season should help I thought with amount of injuries we had coming into season and throughout pre season we be grateful to make finals - for the team to gel and turn mid season is huge ..

 

[myblueroan]

Again, I apologise if my remarks were taken the wrong way. That is down to my inability to write what I am thinking with clarity. I think the Giants are a fantastic football team, and I thought probably the best team of the year, despite losing a few they shouldn't have. You were a single mistake away from knocking the filth out of the finals, and then likely to go all the way.

The Giants will be a force for the forseeable future. That is how traditions are made.....

The supporters can't help it if the foundation of their club was manufactured. Once onboard, they no doubt experience the same highs and lows, the same passion.
Just like every club forum on here says pretty much the same stuff.
Very generous response from Giants supporter I thought. And good on you B.B for clarifying your pov.
Cheers.

 

[BlueGum]

It's been a great ride in the back half of the season.

Proud of the turnaround, the coach not getting sacked, the effort of players, the magic moments and the good footy. Haven't enjoyed watching this team as much since the 90s.

Hats off to all the supporters turning up in numbers and volume. Barracking for the team with you has been a heap of fun.

See you all there next year. Few things to work on. Few spots on the list to improve. Lessons to learn. Work to be done, but still proud of the big strides taken in '23.

 

[Blue1980]

The supporters can't help it if the foundation of their club was manufactured. Once onboard, they no doubt experience the same highs and lows, the same passion.
Just like every club forum on here says pretty much the same stuff.
Very generous response from Giants supporter I thought. And good on you B.B for clarifying your pov.
Cheers.

I agree, we can be nice to each other .

Also every club has to begin somewhere, giants have built something very impressive in just over a decade.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Thought Coleman killed us.
In terms of pace around the ball, here’s hoping Williams can get on the park in 2024, though not sure he will add the midfield pace.. do we give philp another year..? Has blistering speed.

Seemed to give both there halves to much opportunity to capitalise off turnover -- suppose must of been a question in box to keep trying to get on top with extra at stoppage and turn game or defend Coleman -- reminded of Sinclair against us for saints

 

[BlueBlood15]

Proud of the effort to get to a prelim and fight it out on the night but also obviously disappointed we couldn’t pull off the win.

Brisbane were ultimately too good on their deck over the course of four quarters. They’ve done that to 12 other teams this year so there’s no shame in losing this one.

Was sitting in the Carlton members area of the crowd. The first quarter was incredible. A Carlton takeover of the Gabba. Not much to cheer about after that but credit to Brisbane. We did look tired as the game wore on.

Walsh was very good. Harry our best forward. I thought the backline was generally solid under pressure. Boyd was an inspired selection.

Onwards and upwards for 2024.

 

[gbatman]

Our “extremely flawed” coach got us to our first prelim in 23 years, and massively overachieved based on every single person’s expectations coming into the season. Every coach has some flaws, but we are still learning as a club how to become a sustainable team in terms of success.

I disagree with the sentiment that we threw the gameplan out. There were clearly aspects that were altered and adjusted, but we played very similarly. I could see in the Sydney and Essendon games that synergy between the players was developing, we just weren’t executing basic skills and it hurt us on the scoreboard especially. The big differences i noticed from the 2 finals to rounds 12 and 13 was how there was always the right players in the right spots to create, whether that was through a change in setups or just pure increase in effort and application, who knows.

I just think the season got a little too long for us, and we had too many sore bodies to carry us through. Still obviously plenty to work on, but the back half of this season has been an overwhelming achievement for this club

I was saying this all year. We have a great list. It only achieved a finals appearance because we threw the game plan and team selection ideas out the window and tried some things. New game plan, better team selected and a great list and we won an extraordinary amount of games.

Then for some reason we choked at team selection and dropped a lot of our ball carriers. Who instigated the new style of play.

We made some mistakes. I hope we learn. I really do

The game plan of 2022 and early 2023 compared to late 2023 and our finals series is chalk and cheese.

We selected more runners, we implemented forward/mids, we changed our stoppage setups, moved from stationary grappling to being on the move, we implemented a runner at ball ups to run through the stoppage, we allowed the players to take risk turning the ball over in the middle of the ground, we took more risks and put the ball into the middle, we focused on applying pressure by playing close at stoppages and using closing speed rather than adding extra players to the stoppage and keeping the ball in congestion, we stopped slow switching and holding onto the ball for fast movement, and more forward movement, Fisher to defence, Dow into the side, Kemp in, Docherty middle and wing, Fogarty and Cuningham in and playing the forward mid role, not playing Kennedy and Hewett. We flipped what we have been doing for the last season and a half on it's head. Then finals came and we went back to a slower team that takes less risk and doesn't carry the footy and doesn't run from behind play. OK going back to something that has failed before over something that brought a heap of success.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. It's that kind of thing.

We didn't have a problem with the structure of the team, it wasn't losing, it was winning so why on earth change it back to a structure that was losing and proved not good enough to make finals.

There deserves to be a lot of talk and controversy around the team selection and structure for finals.

We made a prelim, awesome. We won our first two finals games because we were good enough to stick with our opposition and our opposition both had horrendous nights in front of goal. We were very very lucky to be here. Can't pretend that the team selection was brilliant.

I reckon we played one or two who were sore and should have missed this week, mainly Cincotta. Truth is we didn't have enough run and speed and ball winners in defence to generate run and we were too slow and lacked agility at the stoppages. All things which could have been fixed with team selection. I'm not saying that cost us the game but we went away from what was winning us games and I believe it would have got us closer to winning this one and would have won the last two games a lot cleaner and easier.

Just watching how Brisbane, GWS and Collingwood have embraced run and speed this finals series. We did, it worked really well, then we didn't.

I think there is a big fat 'why' that needs to be addressed here.

I don't think it comes down to we weren't good enough on the night, I think it comes down to we were too slow and that is a team selection thing.

 

[JuddgementDay]

Ball movement. Carry the ball quickly, go as direct as possible, get it past the press and into the open space. We were doing that a lot second half of this season. Particularly the game against Port Adelaide. Pretty much most games where Charlie kicked a bag or we kicked a big score. We were opening the forward line up.

That's what happens when you dump all your run and carry players out of the team.

You move the ball slow. No carry just slow boundry play or bombing it into the press. This allows the press to keep falling back until it's in your forward line.

Long story short it's a race between the ball and the opposition's press into your forward line. If the press gets back first it's congested and scoring is unlikely and it's just crash and bash and injuries. If the ball beats the press into the forward 50 then it's open, forwards can just lead into space, just have to hit them, our you go straight at them and they have a one on one. Very likely to score.

Brisbane were running with the ball, that opened their forward line up, it also ran our legs off trying to defend that play and get our press back.

We didn't run with the ball after the first quarter. Which left petrol in Brisbane's tank, because we were easy to defend against, no hard running for them. Which allowed them to stay fresh, run with the ball and open our forward line up.

Teams selection. Too many of our better ball carriers in the stands and not on the field.

“Too many of our better ball carriers in the stands and not on the field” - I like most of your post, but this one confuses me

Apart from you wanting Fisher - who else would you have included and at whose expense to get the right balance that you were seeking for?

Personally, I wouldn’t have included Kennedy as the Sub, but that’s marginal