Rumour 2023 Rumours and Speculation (Rumours total 37!, 1 (busted) BIG FISH ALERT last October 9th) (9 confirmed! 17 Busted!)

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

God i've read some s**t on here... but every single post by a certain moderator (and that just boggles the mind) is the stinkiest crap ever.

You'll have to be more specific

 

[George Kramer]

You'll have to be more specific

Party time excellent

 

[Mostyn]

What really stands out is how well resourced the football departments of those clubs are. Coaching in particular.

Look at the coaching groups for clubs like Collingwood and Sydney compared to ours. Ours looks like a state league club in comparison.

It's a lot easier for a club to staff up their coaching team in Victoria.

Both SA teams' coaching staff look like rubbish.

Neither team can even get SA coaches like Rutten and Skipworth to return.

 

[Scorpus]

It's a lot easier for a club to staff up their coaching team in Victoria.

Both SA teams' coaching staff look like rubbish.

Neither team can even get SA coaches like Rutten and Skipworth to return.

The soft cap is another "equalization" measure that heavily punishes non-Victorian teams to prop up the shit Victorian teams like St Kilda and North

Adelaide, West Coast and Fremantle should be in strong financial positions to outspend a St Kilda level club for the best coaching talent, but can't because of the soft cap.

Port Adelaide and Sydney would also be in a better position than those crappy clubs

 

[Mostyn]

Let's pick an arbitrary year such as 2009 - the past 15yrs, nice round number.

"have never bottomed out"
Sydney - 1 flag, 3 runners up
Geelong - 3 flags, 1 runner up

"have definitely bottomed out" (have finished in the bottom four in the years prior)
Hawthorn - 3 flags
Melbourne - 1 flag
Richmond - 3 flags
West Coast - 1 flag, 1 runner up

Turns out clubs that bottom out not only win flags, they barely lose them either

Carlton bottomed out 20 years ago. Nothing like a flag for them. St Kilda bottomed out multiple times and are nothing more than mediocre.

Richmond bottomed out and spent two decades trying to be something other than a joke - before becoming a great club, who now faces a challenging next decade.

Melbourne spent the best part of 15 years trying to be decent.

West Coasts are in a rebuild now. But let's the real - they've only had three seasons of less than 7 wins in 35 years. They didn't do a bottom out rebuild (until now) - they had a bad year.

Hawthorn is currently in a rebuild - did they do a rebuild the last time? They were doing at least 8 and 10 win seasons throughout the late 90s and 2000s. They had one single season with four wins - and received a priority pick that year and drafted Franklin and Roughhead. They were mostly good and when they had one bottom four season, they were vastly over compensated.

Bottoming out now doesn't get the same instant pop of priority picks it once did. The current rebuilding clubs - including us - face really big challenges. I'm not sure it's the best path forward.

 

[Mostyn]

Its a bit like if you had me writing a screenplay to be acted by Sir Anthony Hopkins. Sure he will do his best with what he's given based upon his innate talent, but lets not pretend that me writing the screenplay is going to help engender a memorable movie.

Likewise, if we have a budget coaching line-up feeding lines to our players, we can't expect to see a premiership performance.

In this metaphor, wouldn't he coaching staff be Hopkins trying to influence the quality as much as he can, and the players be the raw material of the script?

 

[skam85]

If you think Nicks is doing well (or even average), go see the video posted by the club of Nicks talking to the players about last weeks loss after the game, where he says he's so proud of them. It should tell you all you need to know. The guy is a loser, who is proud of losses. And the club is so happy with him they are posting it like it's something good.
Elite standards my ass

Phil Walsh would have made the entire team swim in the freezing cold water of Henley at 4am on Sunday

Not congratulatory ball cupping, hugs and participation awards

 

[Sanders]

When you're saying the same thing as Sanders, that's a solid cue to reassess.

Wrong. Again

 

[Sanders]

Huge fan of people making excuses for a coach with a 30% winning record over 5 seasons

People? Or one unique specimen

 

[George Kramer]

People? Or one unique specimen

2

 

[Sanders]

Because I don't subscribe to emotional "group think" ? ..... I'll take that as a compliment

 

[Sanders]

Take BigFooty out of the equation

Ask any Crows fan at a game, any AFL fan even, what they think of Rachele and the Carlton match

Would any say that Rachele hasn't yet played a "half decent game"?

Would any say the Crows vs Blues match was "boring"?

Not just in general. Could you even find other people with those opinions?

I doubt it. I think those opinions are ridiculous, extreme outliers among anyone that follows the sport. Anyone. Not just hardcore nuffies on here.

I think you’ve not given enough credence to another likelihood: that he’s an attention seeking fantasist and much of what he says isn’t true

Obvs he’s also a terrible judge, but that’s almost subordinated to his tenuous grasp on terra firma

 

[MRB37]

Phil Walsh would have made the entire team swim in the freezing cold water of Henley at 4am on Sunday

Not congratulatory ball cupping, hugs and participation awards

“The AFL is about wins and losses — and there is no moral victories or honourable losses. You either get the job done on game day or you don’t."

 

[GameofSloanes]

The comments are pretty funny though. People have finally had enough.

Yeah, I was going to post something similar thinking it would be full of happy clappers, but was pleased to see most were quite annoyed

 

[Sanders]

Bottoming out now doesn't get the same instant pop of priority picks it once did. The current rebuilding clubs - including us - face really big challenges. I'm not sure it's the best path forward.

This is a really good point. The standard methodology of 3 years in the draft, then filling holes in free agency feels a bit outdated. It didn’t work for us, and maybe it’s just an old-tech approach in a new world order.

Sydney finished just above us in 2020, right down the bottom.

Since then they’ve drafted like crap, or at least nothing exciting: they got Gulden in 2020 who’s a star, but nothing else through the draft that makes a huge difference

They haven’t done anything crazy in free agency - though Grundy looks a nice pickup - and in fact losing Dawson should have hurt them more

So, how come they’re top and we’re… us.

Their super power seems to be development.

We berate, kick and suck the confidence out of our draftees every chance we get; whilst they are going great guns

Why? No idea.

But if you can’t develop, you can’t rebuild

 

[ABAB]

Exactly what happened to us when Nicks drove us to the bottom

What? The list was shit after CM after the amount of experience players who were cut end of 2019. Yes, we kept some for the 2020 COVID-19 interrupted season but they ended up being cut end of 2020 as they were proven to be beyond cooked (just like Smith now).

 

[ABAB]

This is a really good point. The standard methodology of 3 years in the draft, then filling holes in free agency feels a bit outdated. It didn’t work for us, and maybe it’s just an old-tech approach in a new world order.

Sydney finished just above us in 2020, right down the bottom.

Since then they’ve drafted like crap, or at least nothing exciting: they got Gulden in 2020 who’s a star, but nothing else through the draft that makes a huge difference

They haven’t done anything crazy in free agency - though Grundy looks a nice pickup - and in fact losing Dawson should have hurt them more

So, how come they’re top and we’re… us.

Their super power seems to be development.

We berate, kick and suck the confidence out of our draftees every chance we get; whilst they are going great guns

Why? No idea.
,
But if you can’t develop, you can’t rebuild

I don't recall Sydney doing a massive list turnover like we did and just like Collingwood who had a down season (also didn't have to do a massive list turnover), their core list wasn't shit because they didn't have to do a rebuild and they have an added advantage of having access to good to very good Academy players. You can't compare the two, just like you can't compare premium Southern fried chicken to cheap and nasty KFC.

 

[Multiballz]

I don't recall Sydney doing a massive list turnover like we did and just like Collingwood who had a down season (also didn't have to do a massive list turnover), their core list wasn't s**t because they didn't have to do a rebuild and they have an added advantage of having access to good to very good Academy players. You can't compare the two, just like you can't compare premium Southern fried chicken to cheap and nasty KFC

Collingwood were in no mans land a few minutes ago. Good Coaching + development and they won a flag.the next.

 

[WeeBlake]

This is a really good point. The standard methodology of 3 years in the draft, then filling holes in free agency feels a bit outdated. It didn’t work for us, and maybe it’s just an old-tech approach in a new world order.

Sydney finished just above us in 2020, right down the bottom.

Since then they’ve drafted like crap, or at least nothing exciting: they got Gulden in 2020 who’s a star, but nothing else through the draft that makes a huge difference

They haven’t done anything crazy in free agency - though Grundy looks a nice pickup - and in fact losing Dawson should have hurt them more

So, how come they’re top and we’re… us.

Their super power seems to be development.

We berate, kick and suck the confidence out of our draftees every chance we get; whilst they are going great guns

Why? No idea.

But if you can’t develop, you can’t rebuild

I think the other thing is that in 2020 they already had a lot of the players currently playing well on their list, and now those players are hitting their prime, whereas we need another couple of years of development into many of the players we’ll rely on to be competitive - max, Soligo, Thilthorpe, Rachele.

But your development point is good. In 2020 they had Warner, Blakey, rowbottom, mcinerney, Maclean, wicks, amartey on the list with very few games among them.

We had jones, Worrell, hamill, Schoenberg, McHenry, Gollant, Sholl, butts with very few games. They have done way better developing their inexperienced players than us (of maybe they just picked better players).

 

[Sanders]

I think the other thing is that in 2020 they already had a lot of the players currently playing well on their list, and now those players are hitting their prime, whereas we need another couple of years of development into many of the players we’ll rely on to be competitive - max, Soligo, Thilthorpe, Rachele.

But your development point is good. In 2020 they had Warner, Blakey, rowbottom, mcinerney, Maclean, wicks, amartey on the list with very few games among them.

We had jones, Worrell, hamill, Schoenberg, McHenry, Gollant, Sholl, butts with very few games. They have done way better developing their inexperienced players than us (of maybe they just picked better players).

The reason we were short on list spots last year wasn’t because we had so many good players; it was because no one was emerging.

They were all still stuck in 1st or 2nd gear which meant you could throw a blanket over them

 

[huludicidal]

But who? Name names. Other than Dowling - if you think he'd be better than Laird or Crouch, bit controversial but ok - who else are you playing?

p.s Rachele and Max both played in the opening round of their 1st seasons. Apparently Max barely lost a contest all pre season and demanded a spot. No one currently playing SANFL has done that.

Dowling is equally capable as an outside mid and has frequently played in outside roles before - he’s also a goalkicker. Drop Chayce Jones for him. Or Sholl. Or have one less completely inflexible option in the side (this week we have found a way to select all of Laird, Crouch and Berry which is laughable). But I’m sure Nicksy is all for that change and is being overruled by all the other evil selectors right?

Laird is cooked, makes the wrong decision with 80% of his disposals, cannot execute simple 40m passes to save his life, and trails his opponent to the ball routinely. If we’re going to be selecting Crouch (and I absolutely believe Crouch deserves his spot in the side as he has excellent hands and makes the likes of Soligo and Dawson better), Laird cannot co-exist in the same midfield in 2024. It’s really quite glaring. The same could be said for Berry, but I’d give Berry a full game or two in Laird’s role (with Laird dropped) before declaring that.

The notion that Oscar Ryan “isn’t ready” is complete and utter nonsense, especially when we have played Parnell in defence this year (who is a certain delistee this offseason), in addition to Hamill (a likely delistee this offseason, for the second time) and Smith (completely cooked and has played maybe 8 decent quarters total this year). Ryan is one of the best performed and most consistent players at SANFL level for us this season, and also looked great in the preseason. Should have debuted by now and would have at most other clubs where he’s competing with that list of trash for a spot (Milera being injured just makes this even more of a no-brainer).

Curtin should absolutely be in the side right now but NOT played deep in a back pocket for crying out loud. Drop Sholl, Jones or Smith for him and play him as a half back sweeper or on a wing. With Worrell out, and us having a pathetic wing duo of Jones and Sholl (you wouldn’t find a worse starting wing duo in the entire league), it just makes it even easier to fit Curtin in than it would be at a club with quality players occupying these positions.

I can live with Taylor and especially Edwards not being in the side. Edwards seems like he needs another 12 months of development. Taylor I would personally give a debut to, perhaps if neither of Laird (playing awful football) or Berry (remains to be seen if he can nail down a spot) perform well in the coming month. If one of Berry or Schoenberg fail in the next fortnight, there’s another spot Taylor could be trialled in - he’s undeniably a better kick than either of them but the ability to rack up touches probably isn’t there yet. You don’t know until you see him at the level. Successful clubs actually try these things to see what they have.


Side note: in addition to the absolute debacle of selecting all 3 of Laird, Crouch and Berry this week, Nicksy’s clearly also been overruled because it’s not his fault and the more influential selectors than the head coach have gone with the trio of Borlase, Butts and Keane in the same side. Is this real life? That’s mind-bending stupidity and there will be multiple occasions where we chip sideways to Butts or Borlase and they completely stall our forward movement (as neither have any idea how to actually move the ball or create literally anything), in addition to us being exposed for speed. Borlase won’t be on our list next year, and Butts won’t ever play another game in weeks where all 3 of Keane, Murray and Worrell are fit from late in 2024. There’s just no eye towards the future here at all.

I’m happy to put the blame for these ill-advised selections and pathetic lack of player development on the entire selection panel, but Nicks leads that panel, and ultimately if there’s any disagreement, it ain’t him being overruled. And if he is being overruled, that just means he’s even more inept than we thought.

Dowling, Taylor, Ryan and Curtin should absolutely have played far more than 7 AFL quarters between them in their careers to this point (tucked In a back pocket and subbed out twice), especially when the preferred options so far this season are the corpse of Brodie Smith, a duo of Butts and Borlase, the corpse of Laird, Lachie “world record pace for the most failed tackle attempts” Sholl, Chayce “better family than Butters” Jones, Ned McHenry, Patrick Parnell and Will Hamill, in addition to relevant long-term injuries to Worrell, Milera, Murray and Parnell.

As we’ve seen with the likes of Cook, Nankervis, Michalanney and Keane, experience isn’t everything and sometimes inexperienced guys can come straight in and improve the side. We aren’t asking for them to replace consistent performers like Crouch. We’re asking for them to replace guys who have been consistently shit this year (and in some cases, consistently shit for longer than that). Coincidentally, it has consistently been these experienced players (in addition to O’Brien, Keays and others) who have let us down in close games. The only thing they have experience at is losing. Are experienced losers a valuable commodity or do they perpetuate the cycle of losing?

The persistence with most of the above proven failures is mind-boggling, and a big part of the reason the club hasn’t played finals under Nicks and his band of merry men, and is showing no signs of ever playing finals under Nicks.


I absolutely agree that the recruitment is also part of the problem. A big part. But selection is going horribly wrong most weeks and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a more unbalanced side than the one we’re trotting out against west coast.


Side note: selection integrity is another major issue. It was pretty controversial to bring Hamill in for the Collingwood game, but for me, bringing in a player of his size and type against the extremely small Collingwood forward line actually made sense. He then played his best ever game at AFL level, and was one of our best 6-8 players on the day. And his reward is being dropped for Borlase, while Brodie Smith and Chayce Jones are retained. I mean you just can’t even make this stuff up.

Summary:
drop perennial underperformers. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is idiotic.

Play youngsters in their preferred positions, not hidden in back pockets or midfielders on a forward flank.

Prioritise the development of your most talented players. Curtin is a top 5 talent at the club and should NEVER be banished to the sanfl after being subbed out twice, playing out of position. There’s vacancies at half back and wing.

Reward good form. Dowling and Ryan say hello.

Punish poor form. Jones and Smith have been terrible.


Fun side note: The 7 quarters Smith spent out of the team were the best we’ve looked all year, which completely debunks any argument for value he adds to the side.


That’s all anyone is asking for.

 

[jackster83]

Dowling is equally capable as an outside mid and has frequently played in outside roles before - he’s also a goalkicker. Drop Chayce Jones for him. Or Sholl. Or have one less completely inflexible option in the side (this week we have found a way to select all of Laird, Crouch and Berry which is laughable). But I’m sure Nicksy is all for that change and is being overruled by all the other evil selectors right?

Laird is cooked, makes the wrong decision with 80% of his disposals, cannot execute simple 40m passes to save his life, and trails his opponent to the ball routinely. If we’re going to be selecting Crouch (and I absolutely believe Crouch deserves his spot in the side as he has excellent hands and makes the likes of Soligo and Dawson better), Laird cannot co-exist in the same midfield in 2024. It’s really quite glaring. The same could be said for Berry, but I’d give Berry a full game or two in Laird’s role (with Laird dropped) before declaring that.

The notion that Oscar Ryan “isn’t ready” is complete and utter nonsense, especially when we have played Parnell in defence this year (who is a certain delistee this offseason), in addition to Hamill (a likely delistee this offseason, for the second time) and Smith (completely cooked and has played maybe 8 decent quarters total this year). Ryan is one of the best performed and most consistent players at SANFL level for us this season, and also looked great in the preseason. Should have debuted by now and would have at most other clubs where he’s competing with that list of trash for a spot (Milera being injured just makes this even more of a no-brainer).

Curtin should absolutely be in the side right now but NOT played deep in a back pocket for crying out loud. Drop Sholl, Jones or Smith for him and play him as a half back sweeper or on a wing. With Worrell out, and us having a pathetic wing duo of Jones and Sholl (you wouldn’t find a worse starting wing duo in the entire league), it just makes it even easier to fit Curtin in than it would be at a club with quality players occupying these positions.

I can live with Taylor and especially Edwards not being in the side. Edwards seems like he needs another 12 months of development. Taylor I would personally give a debut to, perhaps if neither of Laird (playing awful football) or Berry (remains to be seen if he can nail down a spot) perform well in the coming month. If one of Berry or Schoenberg fail in the next fortnight, there’s another spot Taylor could be trialled in - he’s undeniably a better kick than either of them but the ability to rack up touches probably isn’t there yet. You don’t know until you see him at the level. Successful clubs actually try these things to see what they have.


Side note: in addition to the absolute debacle of selecting all 3 of Laird, Crouch and Berry this week, Nicksy’s clearly also been overruled because it’s not his fault and the more influential selectors than the head coach have gone with the trio of Borlase, Butts and Keane in the same side. Is this real life? That’s mind-bending stupidity and there will be multiple occasions where we chip sideways to Butts or Borlase and they completely stall our forward movement (as neither have any idea how to actually move the ball or create literally anything), in addition to us being exposed for speed. Borlase won’t be on our list next year, and Butts won’t ever play another game in weeks where all 3 of Keane, Murray and Worrell are fit from late in 2024. There’s just no eye towards the future here at all.

I’m happy to put the blame for these ill-advised selections and pathetic lack of player development on the entire selection panel, but Nicks leads that panel, and ultimately if there’s any disagreement, it ain’t him being overruled. And if he is being overruled, that just means he’s even more inept than we thought.

Dowling, Taylor, Ryan and Curtin should absolutely have played far more than 7 AFL quarters between them in their careers to this point (tucked In a back pocket and subbed out twice), especially when the preferred options so far this season are the corpse of Brodie Smith, a duo of Butts and Borlase, the corpse of Laird, Lachie “world record pace for the most failed tackle attempts” Sholl, Chayce “better family than Butters” Jones, Ned McHenry, Patrick Parnell and Will Hamill, in addition to relevant long-term injuries to Worrell, Milera, Murray and Parnell.

As we’ve seen with the likes of Cook, Nankervis, Michalanney and Keane, experience isn’t everything and sometimes inexperienced guys can come straight in and improve the side. We aren’t asking for them to replace consistent performers like Crouch. We’re asking for them to replace guys who have been consistently s**t this year (and in some cases, consistently s**t for longer than that). Coincidentally, it has consistently been these experienced players (in addition to O’Brien, Keays and others) who have let us down in close games. The only thing they have experience at is losing. Are experienced losers a valuable commodity or do they perpetuate the cycle of losing?

The persistence with most of the above proven failures is mind-boggling, and a big part of the reason the club hasn’t played finals under Nicks and his band of merry men, and is showing no signs of ever playing finals under Nicks.


I absolutely agree that the recruitment is also part of the problem. A big part. But selection is going horribly wrong most weeks and I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a more unbalanced side than the one we’re trotting out against west coast.


Side note: selection integrity is another major issue. It was pretty controversial to bring Hamill in for the Collingwood game, but for me, bringing in a player of his size and type against the extremely small Collingwood forward line actually made sense. He then played his best ever game at AFL level, and was one of our best 6-8 players on the day. And his reward is being dropped for Borlase, while Brodie Smith and Chayce Jones are retained. I mean you just can’t even make this stuff up.

Summary:
drop perennial underperformers. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is idiotic.

Play youngsters in their preferred positions, not hidden in back pockets or midfielders on a forward flank.

Prioritise the development of your most talented players. Curtin is a top 5 talent at the club and should NEVER be banished to the sanfl after being subbed out twice, playing out of position. There’s vacancies at half back and wing.

Reward good form. Dowling and Ryan say hello.

Punish poor form. Jones and Smith have been terrible.


Fun side note: The 7 quarters Smith spent out of the team were the best we’ve looked all year, which completely debunks any argument for value he adds to the side.


That’s all anyone is asking for.

We're 13th on the ladder yet have only managed to play one debutant (who has only played five quarters for the season).

We're obviously not contending (despite what Lord Varys thinks), but I'm not sure what exactly it is we are doing? Flailing like a spider (who has just copped an entire can of Mortein) in a desperate attempt to fall into 8th I suppose.

 

[spenze]

We're 13th on the ladder yet have only managed to play one debutant (who has only played five quarters for the season).

We're obviously not contending (despite what Lord Varys thinks), but I'm not sure what exactly it is we are doing? Flailing like a spider (who has just copped an entire can of Mortein) in a desperate attempt to fall into 8th I suppose.

Worst is a coach with three years of a contract, coaching like he is in the last year and needs results to keep going.

It worries me that he is too close to the older players and is hoping to deliver a premiership to them when we are at least three years from that talk

 

[jackster83]

Worst is a coach with three years of a contract, coaching like he is in the last year and needs results to keep going.

It worries me that he is too close to the older players and is hoping to deliver a premiership to them when we are at least three years from that talk

He is a fraud and is gradually being caught out, copying slogans from others and contradicting himself week after week.

 

[spenze]

He is a fraud and is gradually being caught out, copying slogans from others and contradicting himself week after week.

It's in his DNA...but he's learning