List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part II

[bird_man]

Only posting here as it seems where most are

Is it true Tim Membrey was forced to address the players prior to the Giants game by the afl? I heard yes and I heard it was terrible for all involved.
The afl making that a condition for saints picking Caminity?

Without actually knowing for sure, I'd say that it's next to no chance that actually happened.

The AFL could be sued for something like that. I'm not sure what anyone would have got out of it?

 

[ScrappyDo]

They don't, they get paid a standard draftee contract for 2 years.
It is the second and third contract where players not deserving get overs because 95% if TPP HAS to be paid.
WCE did this year while at the same time this year's premiers will paid at most 5 % more in TPP.
It is ludicrous.

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So a club shifts its base to say a nowhere like Seaford. They appoint a terrible coach, bottle a decade of drafting and completely bugger up a rebuild.
They pay their players less because they're cruising around in the bottom 4 each year, and because of that anyone half decent leaves after their initial contract.
How does that club break that cycle?
That is why the minimum TPP was set so high.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So a club shifts its base to say a nowhere like Seaford. They appoint a terrible coach, bottle a decade of drafting and completely bugger up a rebuild.
They pay their players less because they're cruising around in the bottom 4 each year, and because of that anyone half decent leaves after their initial contract.
How does that club break that cycle?
That is why the minimum TPP was set so high.

Rubbish.

It was the AFLPA wanting just more money spent on salary in general.

They don't pay "good" players less, they pay their not so good players less.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Rubbish.

It was the AFLPA wanting just more money spent on salary in general.

They don't pay "good" players less, they pay their not so good players less.

Yeah nar..

 

[kernelT]

Acres wouldn't be playing good footy if we kept him lol. It's like regretting trading Jack Newnes cause he won a game for Carlton once

Just kicked the winning goal in back to back finals when Carlton have barely won one in 20 years, is playing better footy than Wood & Hill and we gave him away for a packet of chips.
Newnes played 150 games so we knew what we were delisting, bit different.

 

[stfan]

Only posting here as it seems where most are

Is it true Tim Membrey was forced to address the players prior to the Giants game by the afl?

That would be 100% garbage. Cannot believe you think it is any way plausible.

I heard yes

And your source is?

and I heard it was terrible for all involved.

Well as it did not happen, it wasn't.

But IF it had of it is exactly why it would not have happened.

The afl making that a condition for saints picking Caminity?

Why on earth would you believe at all that the AFL would force a player with mental health issues to do such a thing?

Why on earth would you believe that the Saints would have agreed to such an appalling thing?

 

[stfan]

Someone that was there
Just came up in conversation with a friend

.

You've been had.

How St Kilda stars heard Tim Membrey was struggling with mental health

St Kilda players found out through their wives and girlfriends that star player Tim Membrey was a late omission for their AFL final on Saturday while some didn't even know until just before kick-off.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah nar..

Sorry you're dead wrong, it was not a strategic move by the AFL.
No club would lose good players by not paying them enough if they weren't constrained by the salary cap.

Doesn't matter if you "yeah nar" it or not.

 

[Sippa]

I’m really comfortable with us letting Gresham go

Does it make us any worse next year ? No I honestly don’t think so at all

Does it give us a chance to add another young player to our current group .. yep.. his disposal and decision making has just been horrific and he just hasn’t become the player we all thought he would become

Hopefully it’s a band 2

Also more cap space to load up for next year or the year after ..

 

[The Boar]

Any chance of:

STK Out: P12
STK In: P6 + Haynes

Essentially buying a pick upgrade, not sure what % of Hayne's contract value it would take

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[Saintbloke]

I don't think we can carry three small forward types in Gresh, Higgins and Butler- one of them needed to stand up in the last few games and in the final, but none did- Gresh got a little of the ball, and Butler and Higgins just made up the numbers, and regularly got beaten in individual contests. Amongst the types of players we need, we should throw a bigger bodied half forward in there. I wonder if Clark could hold down a HFF next season, as he is too slow as a mid.

 

[Sully111]

Just kicked the winning goal in back to back finals when Carlton have barely won one in 20 years, is playing better footy than Wood & Hill and we gave him away for a packet of chips.
Newnes played 150 games so we knew what we were delisting, bit different.

View attachment 1805259

Blake is playing well. We stuffed it with where we played him and gave too much away with the Hill trade etc but I think people are getting a bit carried away with him.

Melbourne sh*t the bed. Should have won easily.

Carlton have arsed their way into a prelim.

Brad Hill and Mason Wood have been excellent for us this year.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Just kicked the winning goal in back to back finals when Carlton have barely won one in 20 years, is playing better footy than Wood & Hill and we gave him away for a packet of chips.
Newnes played 150 games so we knew what we were delisting, bit different.

View attachment 1805259

Blake Acres and Ryan Byrnes AFL Stats Comparison

Blake Acres and Ryan Byrnes AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[beside the seaside]

Any chance of:

STK Out: P12
STK In: P6 + Haynes

Essentially buying a pick upgrade, not sure what % of Hayne's contract value it would take

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

GWS aren't a basket case like Gold Coast. There's no way a deal like that is happening.

 

[bird_man]

GWS aren't a basket case like Gold Coast. There's no way a deal like that is happening.

Agree. The way the Giants run their list and cap is extremely efficient. They value high end draft picks on top of anything else too, they won't be giving up 6 unless they are moving up in the draft.

A very well ran club.

 

[MordySaint]

Top marks for positivity. Premium would be very proud.

Yes, I put all this down to the Richardson era

The only good thing that came out of his tenure was Jimmy Webster

 

[The Boar]

GWS aren't a basket case like Gold Coast. There's no way a deal like that is happening.

Agree generally however they have a player in Haynes on $1.2M next year who is not best 22 regularly, getting older and slower.

On top of that a raft of young guns needing new contracts and more money.

From a list management view, they'd have to be open to moving him on in some fashion. Maybe their Pick 15ish is more of a target.

Certainly won't be a full GCS trade however.

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[gringo2011]

Agree on the drafting, it has been our single biggest failure. But I can’t think of any player that we have let go that I wish we didn’t. I don’t think Newnes or Bruce or Hickey made any difference to our trajectory. They can play support roles but none were going to become a Gawn or a Rozee.

Our poor drafting and recruiting resulted in the high turnover in the last 6 or 7 years. As they say, you can’t polish a …….

Last couple of years we seem to have got a few things right so the challenge in future is not to weed out GOPs it is to hold on to talent.

I reckon we kept swapping out ordinary for more ordinary instead of disciplined list building. It was drafting and then when Lethlean took us down a stupid road of topping up the list with ordinary at top value while giving ours away for free.

We love gambling instead of working hard unfortunately. Even selling off guys like Gresham is a popular move on here but to replace Gresham with an equivalent player would cost us heaps. To lose him for a second round pick is very likely to make the list worse.

Sos and Lyon seem to be singing from the risky list management hymn book again. Like the only way to make it is to take high risk decisions that could be a win but are statistically probably more likely to be a fail.

Diluting your list is rarely a good move unless you have a heap of quality sitting in reserve. Port are very good at trading out players that are limited while potential is still a selling point. Toce seems to be a much better recruiter so far. That said the NGA gave him a huge boost.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah, complete fantasy I reckon. Would potentially be the AFL trading coup of the century.

If we could get just one first rounder for either Howard or Gresham we are making like bandits.

I think it would be poor management. Both best 22 players. Both cost first rounders and in a weak draft and still young enough to be in our next challenge, unless it's a top 8 pick in this draft it is unlikely to be a positive move. It's a fairly uninspiring draft.

 

[BrutThough]

Agree generally however they have a player in Haynes on $1.2M next year who is not best 22 regularly, getting older and slower.

On top of that a raft of young guns needing new contracts and more money.

From a list management view, they'd have to be open to moving him on in some fashion. Maybe their Pick 15ish is more of a target.

Certainly won't be a full GCS trade however.

On Pixel 6a using BigFooty.com mobile app

GWS have already stated their salary cap position is fine and they don't need to be handing over a top pick in a salary dump situation.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Wouldn't mind tryng to accumulate a few picks in next years draft if its said to have more midfield talent

 

[gringo2011]

I agree with you somewhat.

The Billings era rebuild failed spectacularly and probably can be said never really took off.

It’s always easier for us to say the next crop of kids we draft will take us to the flag.

We just have no idea about the draft and how they develop. We can do our best but it’s a crapshoot

But I will say this, our list right now isn’t good enough. Either we tread water and finish 5-10 next few seasons and then inevitably have to rebuild in 5-7 years or we try and make the list younger and try to contend in that time.

Both are likely not to lead to a flag cause it’s bloody difficult to win one but I’d rather try to win than just tread water.

The disciplined thing to do is keep adding players through the draft. Try to grab a few top ups with later picks, trade out fringe players that aren't part of the future etc. Making risky moves has cost us a decade and we seem to be back into the gambling to make it faster again. Carlton and Essendon both had the same attitude to list management for years too. Trying to manipulate the system seems to have the opposite effect. At least if you draft well you keep adding pieces.

 

[gringo2011]

That's not true he further elaborates and he says mccartin is the best player in the draft. They genuinely believed mccartin was the better prospect.

The list committee that handed down that decision consisted of Trout, Libba (his successor who was also s**t), Finnis and Richardson.

It's quite clear none of them had a *in clue when it came to football matters.

Gallagher was shithouse, Lethlean was a list wrecker too.

 

[austinnn]

I’m really comfortable with us letting Gresham go

Does it make us any worse next year ? No I honestly don’t think so at all

Does it give us a chance to add another young player to our current group .. yep.. his disposal and decision making has just been horrific and he just hasn’t become the player we all thought he would become

Hopefully it’s a band 2

Also more cap space to load up for next year or the year after ..

I am happy letting him go for decent compensation only. It has been implied on here that his attitude off-field is less than professional, no idea if it's true.

But one thing about him is that he makes things happen on field. If we had score involvement stats, he'd be one of the top Saints in this category. He's inconsistent and is boom or bust but he has the potential to light up our team, with a bit more maturity and responsibility he could be a Toby Greene type for us.

 

[gringo2011]

Every year we have to be trying every avenue to bring young talent in.
When we had a good list in 2009 , we still should have been looking for talent.
Look for Irish guys, look for NGA, look for mature players, try to draft.

Its slow to judge , but there is no way we should have kept Trout on the books so long.

Finnis seemed to be very forgiving of poor performance. It was a job for life at the Saints with zero KPIs to meet. I think he was happy as long as you didn't ask for anything that would cost money. That football department was as bad as any ever assembled, even in the non professional era.