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S Durdin for Young maybe? You rate Durdin too!
Prediction 2024 - Best 23 + Emergencies - Rolling
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4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
Guess a fair bit hinges on form in the pre season games, but Fogarty - to my mind - just doesn't do enough offensively.
C. Durdin for mine offers way more.... and don't discount M. Owies!
C. Durdin for mine offers way more.... and don't discount M. Owies!
Interesting. I like Nigel, always been good enough, but if he is still having to be nursed at 27 (28 in June) he is not the bloke to retain as reliable depth when the hard decisions are made at season’s end.I do but he has been in rehab a lot. I don’t know if managed or inj
I firmly believe Durds is the future. Not sure he is up against Fog for a spot. Owies is a great competitor and a little under rated by some, but clearly in danger of falling out of the mix. Fantasia makes life very interesting.
Our small forwards are currently an even bunch. Personally hoping Durds and Mots get a good run at it to lock down spots for the future.
I see the recruitment of Fantasia as a statement that we view our incumbent mature smalls as areas for improvement. I have my doubts that we will line up with more than two dedicated small forwards. With quality mediums Martin and Elijah Hollands in the mix and the norm of Walshy starting forward before working up the ground, we will lack the room.
Thinking Cottrell and Fogarty in a battle as that 7th forward on the bench, but that may be over ridden with Doc occupying a spot as a utility/hybrid. Cotts is under rated in forward discussions, he is now more forward than wing in our line up.
Will be a little surprising with JSOS out of action if we don’t start the season with Pitto first ruck and TDK playing plenty of forward which again reduces opportunity for the smalls.
Earls Smother
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This is not directed at you, but I am seeing most teams include Ollie Hollands on the wing and not necessarily having Cottrell in the team.
Up until the finals they both effectively played every game they were available for. It was Hollands who was left out for the first final (in which Cottrell was very good), and he was sub for the Melbourne game.
Hollands will certainly benefit from a full pre-season, but Cotts also had no pre-season last year due to the foot issue. I respect your opinion because you see more than the rest of us, but I'm interested in why so many people just put Hollands in and not Cottrell. I would at least have Cotts as sub in your side above, if not replacing Fog in the 22.
Hollands is just a better more consistent player. I like Cottrell but he isn’t in Hollands class or consistency
I think Cottrell is fighting with Fogarty, DC, E.Hollands for the High HF/Wing role and I’d be happy with any of them
That’s just my opinion
I don't think they are competing for the same spot. Cotts played the latter half of the year as a forward and has been training as such this preseason. Don't think he was picked on a wing ahead of Hollands at any stage last year.
Competing with the likes of E.Hollands Fog, Cunners for those high half forward spots.
Our depth in both ends of the ground is excellent.
In the back end I have Kemp, Cincotta, Wilson, Cowan, Young and Durdin missing from best 22. That's one hell of a good VFL backline.
Kemp is a player who was good last year at AFL level and one who I expect to improve this season. Talented and good athlete who's career has been slow to get going. Cincotta was good last season as well. One of the best two way running attacking half backs in the VFL. He was solid in the AFL. After his first AFL preseason I expect his running and his all round game to go up quite a bit. Young is an AFL quality full back, he just lacks versatility to play other roles but we have seen him perform at AFL level. Durdin is an AFL quality key defender who just seems to get injured a lot. Wilson is a star of the future who I hope transitions quickly to a midfield position. Reckon he's a draft steal. Cowan is a very talented player. Really like him, took big steps last season will take more big steps this season.
Then there are the forwards. Motlop, Fantasia, Curnow, McKay, Martin, E Hollands and DeKoning are probably our 7. That leaves Owies, Durdin, Fogarty, Cuningham, Lemmy, Cottrell, Silvagni and Moir out. So we are leaving out half of our regular forwards of the last two seasons.
Some serious talent on the side lines. Owies was out third best goal kicker last season and just keeps getting the job done. Durdin is a player who I have always really rated, love how he plays and his talents and should be improving this season after a down year. Fogarty has had a good preseason and many have him in their best 22. Cuningham was good last season as that forward/mid. He comes in after his first preseason in donkey's years so improvement should be solid. Lemmy by all reports is having a good preseason. Cottrell was really good last year and plays two positions so hard to leave him out. Silvagni is injured so DeKoning likely to play the second ruck role. Moir is a first year player who is hugely talented.
Nothing set in stone but can't see Fantasia missing if fit, Curnow, McKay, Martin, E Hollands or DeKoning missing the side and Motlop in his third season after another good preseason in him should be best 22. If not he's got players on his hammer.
Could easily rock up at some stage and see these names in the VFL:
B: Kemp Young Cowan
HB: Cincotta Durdin Wilson
IC: Carroll
C: Binns Hewett/Kennedy Monahan
OB: O'Keeffe Carroll ??
HF: Cottrell Cuningham Owies
F: Durdin Lemmy Fogarty
IC: Moir
It's no wonder that the match sim games have been quality. Thats massive depth in our ends.
Wings are good. You have Cottrell and Binns there who at VFL level will kill it on a wing.
All we need is our young onballers to pick up. It's the middle of the ground that worries me if there are injuries. If... this is footy, when.
VFL midfield...
AFL locks for mine. Wings are Hollands and Acres. On the ball are Pittonet first ruck. Cripps, Cerra, Walsh, Docherty are our locks with the last spot out of Hewett and Kennedy. At this stage reports are saying Kennedy has been better.
Then after all this, what if McKay rucks? TBH the AFL team I have come up with, it looks a bit tall. Structurally it would probably be better with TDK taking first ruck, Pittonet in the reserves and McKay rucking. Then you pick another small forward.
I'm not sure what directing we will go. Curnow's athleticism means playing three talls works for us as he moves like a third tall more than a key position player. Going to be super interesting to see which way we go.
In the back end I have Kemp, Cincotta, Wilson, Cowan, Young and Durdin missing from best 22. That's one hell of a good VFL backline.
Kemp is a player who was good last year at AFL level and one who I expect to improve this season. Talented and good athlete who's career has been slow to get going. Cincotta was good last season as well. One of the best two way running attacking half backs in the VFL. He was solid in the AFL. After his first AFL preseason I expect his running and his all round game to go up quite a bit. Young is an AFL quality full back, he just lacks versatility to play other roles but we have seen him perform at AFL level. Durdin is an AFL quality key defender who just seems to get injured a lot. Wilson is a star of the future who I hope transitions quickly to a midfield position. Reckon he's a draft steal. Cowan is a very talented player. Really like him, took big steps last season will take more big steps this season.
Then there are the forwards. Motlop, Fantasia, Curnow, McKay, Martin, E Hollands and DeKoning are probably our 7. That leaves Owies, Durdin, Fogarty, Cuningham, Lemmy, Cottrell, Silvagni and Moir out. So we are leaving out half of our regular forwards of the last two seasons.
Some serious talent on the side lines. Owies was out third best goal kicker last season and just keeps getting the job done. Durdin is a player who I have always really rated, love how he plays and his talents and should be improving this season after a down year. Fogarty has had a good preseason and many have him in their best 22. Cuningham was good last season as that forward/mid. He comes in after his first preseason in donkey's years so improvement should be solid. Lemmy by all reports is having a good preseason. Cottrell was really good last year and plays two positions so hard to leave him out. Silvagni is injured so DeKoning likely to play the second ruck role. Moir is a first year player who is hugely talented.
Nothing set in stone but can't see Fantasia missing if fit, Curnow, McKay, Martin, E Hollands or DeKoning missing the side and Motlop in his third season after another good preseason in him should be best 22. If not he's got players on his hammer.
Could easily rock up at some stage and see these names in the VFL:
B: Kemp Young Cowan
HB: Cincotta Durdin Wilson
IC: Carroll
C: Binns Hewett/Kennedy Monahan
OB: O'Keeffe Carroll ??
HF: Cottrell Cuningham Owies
F: Durdin Lemmy Fogarty
IC: Moir
It's no wonder that the match sim games have been quality. Thats massive depth in our ends.
Wings are good. You have Cottrell and Binns there who at VFL level will kill it on a wing.
All we need is our young onballers to pick up. It's the middle of the ground that worries me if there are injuries. If... this is footy, when.
VFL midfield...
AFL locks for mine. Wings are Hollands and Acres. On the ball are Pittonet first ruck. Cripps, Cerra, Walsh, Docherty are our locks with the last spot out of Hewett and Kennedy. At this stage reports are saying Kennedy has been better.
Then after all this, what if McKay rucks? TBH the AFL team I have come up with, it looks a bit tall. Structurally it would probably be better with TDK taking first ruck, Pittonet in the reserves and McKay rucking. Then you pick another small forward.
I'm not sure what directing we will go. Curnow's athleticism means playing three talls works for us as he moves like a third tall more than a key position player. Going to be super interesting to see which way we go.
Totally agree that Durds along with Motlop are our future - both dynamic and dangerous small forwards still learning the craft. Fantasia is the icing on the cake when he's up and running.
I've said it before, and will keep banging on about it, but Owies is not a dangerous small forward in the traditional sense - but a creative forward stuck in a small man's body. He's slow, no overhead skills, average kicking ability, rarely front an centre to the talls - but the two things he does well is maintain pressure, and find space in the forward half to lead in to. With the latter, he was found out during the finals, where any hole in the forward half is quickly closed down because of the manic pace of finals football - and was subsequently dropped for the prelim.
Having said that, he does bring something different to the other 'smalls' - but for mine Durds and Motlop are our two starting small forwards, Fantasia as the 7th forward, and Fog/Owies competing for the remaining spot.
Forward 7: Charlie, Harry, Martin, Durdin, Motlop, Fantasia, Fog/Owies - and TDK ruck/forward.
thylacine60
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been saying it for years - if he was on the run the cops would never find him...........he pops up unexpectedly like a mushroom in a beef & cheese pie
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C.Durdin is a bit of a myth at the moment. I think he will need to improve a fair bit if he wants to play regular AFL footy in 2024. He is very talented but imo doesn’t really excel anywhere and goes missing far too often (though he is not alone there).
He is behind Fantasia, Owies and Motlop as a pure goal sneak.
Likely behind Fogarty as the pressure small.
Doesn’t have the productivity to play off HFF like Cottrell, Hollands, Cuningham.
Very important year for Durds. Will need to take his chance when it comes as competition is hot.
I believe Cottrell has earned that seventh spot. The big question is how Elijah fits in, and I am pretty sure he will.
thylacine60
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might all come down to how he (or they) perform at match-sim and the pre-season games...........the pressure is good pressure.......
JustaBattler
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Owies is very underrated on here- and yet he kicked more goals than any forward apart from Charlie and Harry.....I like forwards who kick goals. I do think Motlop has more natural talent and Durdin is a better defensively and Fantasia might eclipse the lot of them or not...Fogarty is a mid playing as a forward because he isnt big enough to fit in the on ball mid role FT but is smart enough to link well...more interested in teh progress of Moir and the all year fitness and availability of Martin - Jack will be a big loss -(IMO) - then one has to consider that Docherty goes all right as a HF/mid. /wing rotation as does Kennedy - the bloke who Teague had learning to run lines...
plethora of possibilities to think about- and in teh end- the best defending forwards who can kick their expected share a game - will play - nothing complicated about Vossy- tackle first then do something with the ball second - really liked hearing from player commentary recently - that the focus continues to be defense first in pre-season training - it is the foundation stone of 'modern football'.
plethora of possibilities to think about- and in teh end- the best defending forwards who can kick their expected share a game - will play - nothing complicated about Vossy- tackle first then do something with the ball second - really liked hearing from player commentary recently - that the focus continues to be defense first in pre-season training - it is the foundation stone of 'modern football'.
thylacine60
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yep, gotta be excited at the prospect of moir full psycho on the hff, launching mortars into the square off both feet..............
JustaBattler
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I'm excited about this kid - blokes that can kick off either foot and make the distance whilst moving around defenders- are very rare.
Earls Smother
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I don't disagree with that, but we had 4 guys who played in those elite running roles that mixed and matched a bit - Acres, Doc, Ollie and Cotts (not counting the true mids). Certainly Acres and Hollands were more "wingers" than the other 2.
But when faced with leaving one out for the first 2 finals, Voss chose Hollands. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what actually happened. Doc is the one who then shuffles accordingly, and then we have Elijah to consider from round 3 (2).
They both had very similiar years statistically, with Cotts kicking more goals (as he should, playing more forward). I don't really care who gets picked - I try to work out what Voss is likely to do. If you go by the sides here, everyone picks Ollie and a lot leave Cotts out. I'm not sure Voss will go that way. FWIW I hope both play and we only pick 2 "smalls". I do think these elite running types will be used as sub fairly regularly, particularly when Elijah has to fit in.
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The good thing is all of these guys seem capable and are young enough to improve plenty. The season is long and they will all get a chance at some point to show that.
Wasn’t long ago we were debating between Tutt, Lamb, Sumner and Kerridge for those spots. Matty Wright was always underrated though.
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
Said this before - the 2 small forward spots are anyone's.....
All have merit.
One must presume a fit Fantasia is a walk up to start with - too much pedigree & proven quality....
Then the choice between Owies, Durds and Mots - super tough.
Agree that Fogarty is competing with E. Hollands/Cotts/Cuners....
All have merit.
One must presume a fit Fantasia is a walk up to start with - too much pedigree & proven quality....
Then the choice between Owies, Durds and Mots - super tough.
Agree that Fogarty is competing with E. Hollands/Cotts/Cuners....
4flagsin5yrs
Premiership Player
Both Moir and E. Hollands can comfortably launch the ball 50+
With the marking power of Harry and Charlie close to goal, I'm expecting some mega scores this year... and some big individual bags.
It's a fair point. If we see Doc and Acres as our best 2 wingers, based on last year Cotts was ahead for that half forward / 3rd winger role. That said, Hollands sounds like he has taken a step forward over summer and Doc could play elsewhere (as a HF/mid), opening up that 2nd wing spot. I guess it depends on how we structure up and how desperately we want to fit in certain players.
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But what if we have lost to Brisbane the week before
Elaborating on what I said earlier, here's a team I think we will go with and how it works.
B: McGovern Weitering Newman
HB: Saad Marchbank Williams
C: Acres Cripps O Hollands
HF: Martin McKay E Hollands
F: Fantasia Curnow Motlop
OB: Pittonet Walsh Cerra
IC: Boyd Kennedy Docherty DeKoning
SUB: A forward
Backline
I love the mobility and the run but the intercept marking ability that is also there. There is speed and endurance but also rotations. You want all your small backs to be able to play back pocket and HBF so they can rotate. We don't want guys stuck on the flank doing a lot of hard running all game because the pockets aren't fit enough or good enough to play up the ground. In finals last year we were down to Saad as our only prime two way running AFL level back flanker with Boyd doing an admirable job on the other flank, Newman doing his usual and Cincotta struggling after a long run in his first AFL preseason.
What I love is knowing Saad, Boyd, Williams and Newman can all play half back and back pocket and will be rotating and keeping each other fresh.
What I also love is Marchbank and McGovern. They read the game so well and intercept mark but they also bring flanker level leg speed. Marchbank brings two way run. We saw just how much he likes to get involved in the break and chaines of play after the turnover after no preseason and years off. He used to play wing for us at times. He's had his first preseason in so long, he adds another runner to our half back line as well as a key position player. McGovern fitter than ever brings the same thing.
A thing we may see later in the season is Williams rotating through the middle, perhaps with Docherty. But I think that is a thought that we just hold expectations on as well. Speaking of Williams, here is a talented footballer who came to us from GWS lacking conditioning and fitness. Last preseason he got himself in ripping condition only to go down with a knee. This season the AFL world gets to see him at a level of conditioning he has never been at before.
Weitering is Weitering. We know what we get here.
Midfield
Wings
Acres is one of the game's better wingers and it's great to have him. Hollands is one of the games up and comers. Wing is a tough role that takes a lot of hard work, patience and good positioning for mixed results when it comes to reward. I think we will see Docherty rotate through the wings at times and Cottrell if he is in the side. Binns will be pushing hard for selection for this position as well. I really like our wings. I think there is a lot of talent here.
I think Docherty and E Hollands will pinch hit and be a part of the wing rotations as well as onball rotations.
On Ball
Our challenge isn't talent with this group but getting the two way run and pace improved. I rate our onball group quite highly but there are a few sides out there who bother us in this area. Collingwood and Brisbane being the main ones, who's speed and agility appear to be a problem for us at times and Adelaide have as well. Do we go up a level? I think we do.
We have Kennedy, Cripps and Hewett in ripping condition at the moment. A little improvement in their running goes a long way. Walsh and Cerra in good condition. Walsh missed last preseason. I think Docherty goes in there a lot as well. What we gain this season is the rotations.
E Hollands I think will be rotating into the middle a lot. Probably 50/50. This means guys like Cripps, Cerra, Walsh and Docherty change with him regularly in the forward line.
2022 Brownlow medal level Cripps was rotating forward and kicking goals. Then he wasn't. I want to see that come back. Cerra was going forward at Fremantle and kicking goals. I want to see that. Docherty has been training at half forward. We know he has a good onball and win game. So he and E Hollands probably unlock those forward rotations here.
The ruck is a tricky one. I can see TDK and Pitto rucking together. I think TDK is the most important player on the list at the moment. IMO he's had his first two consecutive preseasons now. He was so so good at the end of last season. I'm really excited about what he brings as a forward and as a ruck. But don't be surprised if TDK is the number one ruck if McKay takes to the role. Most sides have the second big forward rucking and are choosing to go smaller and more mobile.
Forwards
What is there not to love about the forwards? McKay and Curnow are Coleman quality key forwards. DeKoning is one of the best up and coming forward/rucks.
Fantasia, he's having a good preseason. He's quick, enduring and a very high quality player. We should be excited about having him. Martin fit is just sublime. Motlop is due. He's just due, if he isn't we have others. E Hollands. I think we have snagged a good player at the right time of their career.
Do we have enough rotations with the mids? I'd like to see two. Hollands will go in there. Docherty probably will so there are two. Could Motlop? Fantasia has at times and so has Martin but being injury prone may not.
I think the sub for us will be really important being a forward here. Someone who can go on the ball would be ideally. Cuningham? Durdin? Cottrell to rotate with the wings and forwards?
The Sub
Most will pick the next best footballer which is Hewett. I'm picking a forward. This gives us the option of changing the structure from three tall forwards to two. Sub Pittonet out and put DeKoning into the ruck. Or if a mid goes down then E Hollands and Docherty take more midfield minutes and are replaced by a forward. If a defender goes down Docherty moves out of the forward/mid role to defence.
We have outstanding depth in our forward department. Which forward? Hard to say. Lots of good cases for Durdin, Cottrell, Owies, Fogarty and Cuningham. Then there is Moir who could come on at some stage.
The sub also needs to be an impact player. In the past picking slower inside mids as subs (Curnow, Hewett, Kennedy) has been our thing and it has never worked IMO. Someone with legs peed and good skills who can hurt the opposition and make things happen. Someone who can come into that forward line and release a Hollands or a Docherty or a DeKoning to another position/role.
Picking a small forward in that team means we can cover any injury to a small on any part of the ground. It means we can bring a good quality impact player into the game. It means we can change structure by taking Pittonet out, going with McKay as second ruck and TDK in the ruck with a faster, smaller forward line.
It just works.
B: McGovern Weitering Newman
HB: Saad Marchbank Williams
C: Acres Cripps O Hollands
HF: Martin McKay E Hollands
F: Fantasia Curnow Motlop
OB: Pittonet Walsh Cerra
IC: Boyd Kennedy Docherty DeKoning
SUB: A forward
Backline
I love the mobility and the run but the intercept marking ability that is also there. There is speed and endurance but also rotations. You want all your small backs to be able to play back pocket and HBF so they can rotate. We don't want guys stuck on the flank doing a lot of hard running all game because the pockets aren't fit enough or good enough to play up the ground. In finals last year we were down to Saad as our only prime two way running AFL level back flanker with Boyd doing an admirable job on the other flank, Newman doing his usual and Cincotta struggling after a long run in his first AFL preseason.
What I love is knowing Saad, Boyd, Williams and Newman can all play half back and back pocket and will be rotating and keeping each other fresh.
What I also love is Marchbank and McGovern. They read the game so well and intercept mark but they also bring flanker level leg speed. Marchbank brings two way run. We saw just how much he likes to get involved in the break and chaines of play after the turnover after no preseason and years off. He used to play wing for us at times. He's had his first preseason in so long, he adds another runner to our half back line as well as a key position player. McGovern fitter than ever brings the same thing.
A thing we may see later in the season is Williams rotating through the middle, perhaps with Docherty. But I think that is a thought that we just hold expectations on as well. Speaking of Williams, here is a talented footballer who came to us from GWS lacking conditioning and fitness. Last preseason he got himself in ripping condition only to go down with a knee. This season the AFL world gets to see him at a level of conditioning he has never been at before.
Weitering is Weitering. We know what we get here.
Midfield
Wings
Acres is one of the game's better wingers and it's great to have him. Hollands is one of the games up and comers. Wing is a tough role that takes a lot of hard work, patience and good positioning for mixed results when it comes to reward. I think we will see Docherty rotate through the wings at times and Cottrell if he is in the side. Binns will be pushing hard for selection for this position as well. I really like our wings. I think there is a lot of talent here.
I think Docherty and E Hollands will pinch hit and be a part of the wing rotations as well as onball rotations.
On Ball
Our challenge isn't talent with this group but getting the two way run and pace improved. I rate our onball group quite highly but there are a few sides out there who bother us in this area. Collingwood and Brisbane being the main ones, who's speed and agility appear to be a problem for us at times and Adelaide have as well. Do we go up a level? I think we do.
We have Kennedy, Cripps and Hewett in ripping condition at the moment. A little improvement in their running goes a long way. Walsh and Cerra in good condition. Walsh missed last preseason. I think Docherty goes in there a lot as well. What we gain this season is the rotations.
E Hollands I think will be rotating into the middle a lot. Probably 50/50. This means guys like Cripps, Cerra, Walsh and Docherty change with him regularly in the forward line.
2022 Brownlow medal level Cripps was rotating forward and kicking goals. Then he wasn't. I want to see that come back. Cerra was going forward at Fremantle and kicking goals. I want to see that. Docherty has been training at half forward. We know he has a good onball and win game. So he and E Hollands probably unlock those forward rotations here.
The ruck is a tricky one. I can see TDK and Pitto rucking together. I think TDK is the most important player on the list at the moment. IMO he's had his first two consecutive preseasons now. He was so so good at the end of last season. I'm really excited about what he brings as a forward and as a ruck. But don't be surprised if TDK is the number one ruck if McKay takes to the role. Most sides have the second big forward rucking and are choosing to go smaller and more mobile.
Forwards
What is there not to love about the forwards? McKay and Curnow are Coleman quality key forwards. DeKoning is one of the best up and coming forward/rucks.
Fantasia, he's having a good preseason. He's quick, enduring and a very high quality player. We should be excited about having him. Martin fit is just sublime. Motlop is due. He's just due, if he isn't we have others. E Hollands. I think we have snagged a good player at the right time of their career.
Do we have enough rotations with the mids? I'd like to see two. Hollands will go in there. Docherty probably will so there are two. Could Motlop? Fantasia has at times and so has Martin but being injury prone may not.
I think the sub for us will be really important being a forward here. Someone who can go on the ball would be ideally. Cuningham? Durdin? Cottrell to rotate with the wings and forwards?
The Sub
Most will pick the next best footballer which is Hewett. I'm picking a forward. This gives us the option of changing the structure from three tall forwards to two. Sub Pittonet out and put DeKoning into the ruck. Or if a mid goes down then E Hollands and Docherty take more midfield minutes and are replaced by a forward. If a defender goes down Docherty moves out of the forward/mid role to defence.
We have outstanding depth in our forward department. Which forward? Hard to say. Lots of good cases for Durdin, Cottrell, Owies, Fogarty and Cuningham. Then there is Moir who could come on at some stage.
The sub also needs to be an impact player. In the past picking slower inside mids as subs (Curnow, Hewett, Kennedy) has been our thing and it has never worked IMO. Someone with legs peed and good skills who can hurt the opposition and make things happen. Someone who can come into that forward line and release a Hollands or a Docherty or a DeKoning to another position/role.
Picking a small forward in that team means we can cover any injury to a small on any part of the ground. It means we can bring a good quality impact player into the game. It means we can change structure by taking Pittonet out, going with McKay as second ruck and TDK in the ruck with a faster, smaller forward line.
It just works.
- Thread starter
- #675
That's a really strong side and yet I think a couple more are very much in the mix
With Elijah missing first game, i think one of Cottrell or Hewett will come in, the other will be the sub
And still some strong emergencies
