List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[gringo2011]

Seriously, if SOS lets Windy leave, he can follow him out the door. Give him the years he wants, find a compromise with the cash. Marcus is the glue in so much of our good work, has a great attitude and will probably end up in the leadership group if not the captain.

Saints fans need to show him the love too! This cheering for Nas on the 7th minute of the game, lets hear cheer for Windhager on minute 2 and show him he's loved at St Kilda.

Just get Bassat to take over dealing with Windhager like he did with Nas. Seemed to get shit done very quickly when he went over SOS' head.

 

[BrutThough]

If he does go I think it will hurt us a lot more than people realise. Unless they pull off something like Flanders or another mid that can step up we go backwards short term and probably long term unless we can find a ready made replacement. I think he could end up embarrassing us and also makes us look a bit less credible in our criticism of the AFL.

I'll preface this by saying I want to keep him and would hope our offer has increased for him. But at the same time, we might be overstating his presence in the midfield recently. He's been playing wing and half back mainly, not full time midfield when not tagging.

Nas will be midfield every game next year. We've chosen to play Hugo in there ahead of him. We will play a fit Pou in there ahead of him. We've expressed a desire for Wilson and Boxhall to spend time there. Maybe Hall, Henry, even Higgins etc. If we have 2 rucks, maybe Owens gets more time around the midfield. Plus the two oldies floating around.

All this to say, maybe we believe we have enough similar types and that he's near his ceiling while believing others will match his output for cheaper? For a long time, we've called for list management to not overpay to keep B graders. Could that be what is finally happening with this situation?

 

[CaptainRisky]

They weren’t guns either.

Williams was this decent half back they paid big money thinking they could turn into a midfielder who could break lines.

Martin was a bunch of unfulfilled potential. Still is and hugely injury prone.

At their best before they started getting injured they would have walked into our team

 

[CaptainRisky]

I'll preface this by saying I want to keep him and would hope our offer has increased for him. But at the same time, we might be overstating his presence in the midfield recently. He's been playing wing and half back mainly, not full time midfield when not tagging.

Nas will be midfield every game next year. We've chosen to play Hugo in there ahead of him. We will play a fit Pou in there ahead of him. We've expressed a desire for Wilson and Boxhall to spend time there. Maybe Hall, Henry, even Higgins etc. If we have 2 rucks, maybe Owens gets more time around the midfield. Plus the two oldies floating around.

All this to say, maybe we believe we have enough similar types and that he's near his ceiling while believing others will match his output for cheaper? For a long time, we've called for list management to not overpay to keep B graders. Could that be what is finally happening with this situation?

Fair enough post but i cant see Higgins ever playing in the guts

 

[BrutThough]

Fair enough post but i cant see Higgins ever playing in the guts

Neither can I. I just listed him since after the Essendon game, Ross mentioned running him in there. I doubt it ever happens.

 

[stavro#4]

At their best before they started getting injured they would have walked into our team

That still doesn’t make them guns.

The idea of spending big on a half back to transition into midfield is the mature age recruit version of using a top 10 pick on a half back to become a midfielder

 

[SaintsofSteel]

As much as l think Windy is over-rating himself
I wouldn't say Flanders is an upgrade.

I don't either but perhaps the club do?

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon Dodson looks a really good prospect as well but the takeaway from one great VFL performance is unmatched since Freeman.
He's a promising kid. That's all for now.

VFL Stats - Alex Dodson

vfl.aflmstats.com

He's played a total of 15 VFL games. In his third match he came in and had 18 touches 4 marks and kicked 1.2 against a really strong Bulldogs side playing as a forward.

Two games later plays some ruck and gets 17 touches and 17 hit outs as a ruck forward. Two games later backs that up with a nearly identical performance and then the next match kicks 4.1 from 19 touches.

Two games later he is dominant in his 12th game of footy with 29 disposals, 35 hit outs and scores 3.1.

Three games after that he has his absolute kick the door down game where we can't keep him out with 35 disposals which must be nearly a record for a tall at Sandy but also has 41 hit outs and 139 fantasy points. He's kicked 12.6 in his 15 matches and 151 hit-outs from very limited rucking opportunities.

This kid isn't just a good prospect. He is looking ridiculous. I can't remember seeing a tall kid look so good at such a young age. Apparently other clubs are already looking at him and he's making them look more and more. He's going to have them circling like sharks if he keeps it up.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Nope. I thought it was classy of the Pies to recogize his contribution to the game, mostly with the Saints.

I'm not against the act of them chairing him off and obviously appreciate the Pies recognising his Saints' career. It's just sickening seeing him in a Collingwood guernsey during all of it haha.

No regrets us letting him go, though.

 

[stavro#4]

I don't either but perhaps the club do?

Last years Sam Flanders is better than this years Windhager.

Not sure what the story is with him this year.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Thanks list manager , FMD

What do you suggest we do with Windy?

 

[hangdog]

Just put the troll on ignore. Kent arseh*le calling people peadilophiles on here. Don't know ow why the mods don't card the f-wit

I used to think "nonce" was slang for an idiot. So one time I did something dumb and said "Gee I'm a nonce" and my British mate nearly choked on his coffee

 

[hangdog]

Geez these last few pages have been a struggle

View attachment 2404160

I reckon Baldwin has bigger things to worry about...

 

[gringo2011]

everyone defending Sos and having a go at people that called for his sacking, bunch of woke ass PC BS. Tell me, what's wrong with saying ok Sos you've done a good job, nay a great job, but we're gonna sack you anyway. Sometimes you just need a good sacking, the natives get restless and someone has to go. Not everything has to be justified with "logic" and "hindsight"

Or it comes with the territory. If he can't handle it it's probably not the right job for him. We are a critical juncture. Get things right and we rise up over the next few seasons. Get it wrong and it's potentially years in other mediocrity cycle.

He's dragging contracts out and so far waiting has bumped nearly every one of them much much higher. He's failed to attract the absolute elite players from other clubs and even Nas needed intervention from Bassat to get done.

We are celebrating him signing up the best player we've drafted in 20 years like that was exceptional for a list manager. He's making risky calls and copping it for them. I'm not sure the club would expect anything else. He'll be judged next year if we can push back up the ladder and if he gets it right he'll get the. praise for it.....or at least not bagged.

 

[Miha]

Last years Sam Flanders is better than this years Windhager.

Not sure what the story is with him this year.

I think Hardwick moved him out of midfield where he was thriving and hasn’t been influential since then ended up a sub. Happy to be corrected

 

[gringo2011]

Marshall was 24 before he broke out.
TDK 24/25 before he did the same.

That means we likely have 3-4 more years before Dodson gets to a similar level.

Rucks are all about physical development- comparison young kids coming through who can play more running roles are more immediately ready.

Luke Jackson played in a premiership side in his second year and contributed. Not all tall players take years. Especially seeing as Jackson is probably the closest comparison to Dodson. Both are handy forwards and their ability to impact isn't just in the ruck.

 

[stavro#4]

Luke Jackson played in a premiership side in his second year and contributed. Not all tall players take years. Especially seeing as Jackson is probably the closest comparison to Dodson. Both are handy forwards and their ability to impact isn't just in the ruck.

Who is another example outside of Luke Jackson?

 

[TheJackal]

VFL Stats - Alex Dodson

vfl.aflmstats.com

He's played a total of 15 VFL games. In his third match he came in and had 18 touches 4 marks and kicked 1.2 against a really strong Bulldogs side playing as a forward.

Two games later plays some ruck and gets 17 touches and 17 hit outs as a ruck forward. Two games later backs that up with a nearly identical performance and then the next match kicks 4.1 from 19 touches.

Two games later he is dominant in his 12th game of footy with 29 disposals, 35 hit outs and scores 3.1.

Three games after that he has his absolute kick the door down game where we can't keep him out with 35 disposals which must be nearly a record for a tall at Sandy but also has 41 hit outs and 139 fantasy points. He's kicked 12.6 in his 15 matches and 151 hit-outs from very limited rucking opportunities.

This kid isn't just a good prospect. He is looking ridiculous. I can't remember seeing a tall kid look so good at such a young age. Apparently other clubs are already looking at him and he's making them look more and more. He's going to have them circling like sharks if he keeps it up.

Well said Gringo. Just watching him yesterday, he was clunking everything as a tall forward during match sim. Looked a lot more capable than Keels and Heath in that snippet of training and they should be years ahead in development.

Who knows what another preseason brings. Sky is the limit for all of our kids, Dodson is a talent - noone is gifting him games but I'm not interested in the club holding him back either.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Who is another example outside of Luke Jackson?

You'd also hope that Keeler is ahead of Dodson next year for the KPF/secondary ruck role.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Where does everyone want to see Tauru settle positionally long term?

He looks more of a natural defender though

 

[gringo2011]

Hang on a minute, mate.

Are you trying to tell me that Ben Paton isn't a gun? But he has had 30 possessions four times this season and 20-plus a further seven times.

Also, Jacob Koschitzke is a weapon. Few weeks back against, kicked 4 goals, had 26 possessions, 8 clearances, 25 hitouts?

Looks way better than TDK.

You're a liar - guns everywhere in the VFL.

There are hundreds of guys that are excellent VFL players but have limitations that stop them being serious AFL players. Ben Paton is a GOP at AFL level but as a small defender he's not overly quick, strong or elite at any one aspect of the game.

Dodson looks like he's an absolute unicorn. If Rory Lobb gets $1.2 million a season for being a tall and mobile player without a lot of elite aspects to his game it shoes how hard they are to find. Good ruck forwards are almost the hardest players to find in footy.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

No they weren't. Williams was starring off HBF at GWS, they thought he could be a mid. Jack Martin looked on his way to being a star and McGovern looked a premium tall back. All looked like solid gets. Injury cruelled Martin and Williams. McGovern wasn't able to take the next step.

Agree to disagree

'Solid gets' don't equal $1m+ contracts in my book though (which is what fkd Carlton's cap)

 

[gringo2011]

Don’t care which gimp is running it, just some standards would be nice. You retired yet? Put your hand up

You really need to bring back your American Psycho avatar. It's disconcerting seeing you as that kid. You'll always be a yuppie Christian Bale to me.

 

[TheJackal]

Who is another example outside of Luke Jackson?

Brodie Grundy, NikNat, Tim English, they were the first 3 I looked up. All played a fair bit in their second season.

 

[Sainterz12]

I hope like others that Dodson will be good, but comparing him to Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

24

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

seems a bit far fetched?
For a “potential” first rounder why did he fall to us after Geelong drafted the second ruck on his team?