List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Joffaboy]

Good stuff on Windy.

Also says we are interested in Cam Mackenzie and meeting with Sam Flanders next week.

Rowan Marshall hasn’t requested a trade. Is not about whether he wants to go. It’s about whether the saints would actually trade him. It will be about picks in return.

At the end, Byrnes, Arie and Jones, being made to wait. No mention of Carroll, Is he contracted?

 

[stavro#4]

At the end, Byrnes, Arie and Jones, being made to wait. No mention of Carroll, Is he contracted?

Nope

 

[gringo2011]

It would be baffling to me to pick the dees over us at this point (especially when its not like hes gonna be behind a stack of stars struggling for game time) but i guess he has his reasons if he does.

I look forward to the articles about how the dees must have coughed up all sorts of crazy cash for him if it happens.

Money is the only advantage they would have over us. Carlton and Essendon don't exactly look promising either.

 

[SainterinSydney]

I don't say this lightly, but Wilkie is close to the most important player on the list. We have been blessed with his durability, but if he had ever suffered an injury for any length of time, I can guarantee our defence would have fallen apart.

 

[TheNewEnsign]

I hate the precedent this is setting. Whats the point of contracts if players can threaten to break them after one phone call?
Might as well pay these blokes on pro rata rate at this point

The overlay to a lot of player movements in the last ~ten years (or maybe, underlay is a better term) and why clubs facilitate player's requests is the AFL is (rightly) very worried that a player will go nuclear and bring a restraint of trade action against the club / AFL; they may well win and it would break the current system apart.

Pretty much every person on this board who is employed has the option of going to their employer tomorrow and resigning, and then can choose a new employer in the same field (and don't bring up supposed restrain of trade clauses in normal contracts, they are virtually always unenforceable except in niche circumstances). It is very unusual that AFL players cannot do that, the clubs understand that and that's why almost always a deal gets done if a player truly wants out.

 

[stavro#4]

The overlay to a lot of player movements in the last ~ten years (or maybe, underlay is a better term) and why clubs facilitate player's requests is the AFL is (rightly) very worried that a player will go nuclear and bring a restraint of trade action against the club / AFL; they may well win and it would break the current system apart.

Pretty much every person on this board who is employed has the option of going to their employer tomorrow and resigning, and then can choose a new employer in the same field (and don't bring up supposed restrain of trade clauses in normal contracts, they are virtually always unenforceable except in niche circumstances). It is very unusual that AFL players cannot do that, the clubs understand that and that's why almost always a deal gets done if a player truly wants out.

This isn’t real.

The rules as stands are agreed to by the player association after votes by their members (players).

The players have agreed to these rules - hence also having things like free agency.

 

[gringo2011]

If Marshall and/or Steele go. You watch people try sell it as just that.

It looks confusing to people outside the club. Losing a captain and a favourite son looks like turmoil or weird list management if you don't look too deep into it. Marshall makes sense for him and the club now that we've got TDK, I'm not sure too many would be in shock.

Steele hasn't performed that well recently but dangling your captain is a footy taboo. We should be thankful that nearly every captain in the AFL seems available at the same time.

Anyway, there will be no criticism if we start the season with a bang and start winning matches. You are only a shit club if you are losing.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

Good stuff on Windy.

Also says we are interested in Cam Mackenzie and meeting with Sam Flanders next week.

Rowan Marshall hasn’t requested a trade. Is not about whether he wants to go. It’s about whether the saints would actually trade him. It will be about picks in return.

Adam Cooney is a shocking analyst. Not a lot going on upstairs

 

[SainterinSydney]

Apparently their ItK.

Let the games begin.

View attachment 2429322

Tom Papley says hello

 

[stavro#4]

Better not be us.

Stephenson has approached several AFL clubs, including Port Adelaide and Carlton, to gauge their interest in him, according to three sources who confirmed his interest in a potential return on the condition of anonymity.

 

[phantom13]

I reckon we've almost moved past Henry. He's really wing/HHF and Hall and Windhager have probably overtaken for those spots and with Ryan coming in and Garcia performing things are getting tight. Hill maybe phased out potentially if he performs better but he was so far back in the VFL he looks like he's going to struggle to get back and leap frog others. Even Collard looked ahead of him.

We haven’t really seen his best and granted he’s not the same walk up inclusion that King and Pou are but his best is still worthy of the 23

 

[gringo2011]

Understand your point but it’s difficult out to know if he would have stayed anyway. Battle is the same output as last season (actually statistically a little less output but slightly more attacking) but now he is in a Hawks top he is AA. I don’t think he has actually improved, to pick up a point earlier, not necessarily yours. Still a very good player though, but not our best backman.

Definitely gets a big club loading but also the trade speculation and move made a guy lots had never heard of a household name. Selectors all of a sudden kept an eye out for what he does that's so special perhaps.

 

[tassiesaint2024]

Controversial opinion, a bit convoluted and probably unlikely…. but if the dogs pay massive overs for Cal and we can somehow sling Marshall and something to the cats for SDK. I’m not against it. SDK, Silvagni, Tauru and Aleer as a backline, with picks incoming, is a big long term list upgrade from 2025.

 

[billings2paddy]

Herald Sun -

North Melbourne and Western Bulldogs are both firmly in the market for an experienced key defender, but it is understood the Bulldogs are prioritising their aggressive push for St Kilda vice-captain Callum Wilkie.


Would be a shame if they come away from the trade period having not made an improvement to their key backs however stocks.

They have to make it look like they are having a crack for the fans

 

[St Neil]

I’m happy to keep pick 7.

Take a gun lad at the draft and match a bid for Fincher.

Keep the flow of elite talent coming through.

 

[nikkig98]

The overlay to a lot of player movements in the last ~ten years (or maybe, underlay is a better term) and why clubs facilitate player's requests is the AFL is (rightly) very worried that a player will go nuclear and bring a restraint of trade action against the club / AFL; they may well win and it would break the current system apart.

Pretty much every person on this board who is employed has the option of going to their employer tomorrow and resigning, and then can choose a new employer in the same field (and don't bring up supposed restrain of trade clauses in normal contracts, they are virtually always unenforceable except in niche circumstances). It is very unusual that AFL players cannot do that, the clubs understand that and that's why almost always a deal gets done if a player truly wants out.

This isn’t quite right. Most people can walk away from a job, sure, but AFL players are in a very closed, tightly regulated competition. And it’s not like they’re the only ones with limits, plenty of professions have enforceable restraints. Doctors often can’t practice within a certain radius after leaving a clinic, lawyers deal with conflict of interest restrictions, IT consultants are barred from taking clients to competitors. The AFL isn’t some weird outlier, the same principle applies wherever an employer has invested heavily in training, branding, or customer relationships.


And the idea that restraints are “virtually always unenforceable” is oversimplifying it. Under Australian law, restraints are presumed void, but they can and do get enforced if they’re reasonable and protect a legitimate business interest, things like confidential info, client connections, goodwill or specialist training.

 

[TheNewEnsign]

This isn’t real.

The rules as stands are agreed to by the player association after votes by their members (players).

The players have agreed to these rules - hence also having things like free agency.

Agreeing to a contract or a set of rules does not mean the contract is protected from judicial review. It's not exactly a fringe opinion that parts of the AFL draft and contract system might not hold up under legal challenge.

I said 'go nuclear' above because it would have to be an extraordinary circumstance and player would make themselves an absolute pariah within the league (i.e. to clubs and AFL House). Wilkie's not going to be that guy but I am not changing my view that it's still an undercurrent when a contracted player requests a trade.

 

[Verdun66]

Just on the Viking. Pretty sure he is at the younger end of his draft year. Missed the preseason and then pretty much the first half of the real season.

Ross has said at least twice that I can remember he hasn’t really been coached yet. Mostly been in rehab. He is still very under developed both physically and game wise.

And yet despite a few errors he shone pretty brightly. Track watchers say it is quite striking the way he moves. And his skills such as high marking are rare.

If we handle him the right way there is a superstar player that we can watch for a long time. But again patience is key. He is almost in the 2025 draft year in terms of age. Even a few months can make quite a difference in your teen years.

Comparing him with Battle is fruitless to say the least.

 

[FQFjt]

We haven’t really seen his best and granted he’s not the same walk up inclusion that King and Pou are but his best is still worthy of the 23

Easily. His best is electric and a huge point of difference.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I don’t think Flanders is chasing success, if he is why would he leave a team that’s already playing finals and looks like it’s still rising and which he’s best 22?

I think he’s chasing a role.

I reckon he wants to be the next Zac Butters, so that he can maximise his value.

Reckon he’s more likely to get that opportunity at Melbourne.

Flanders knows he will soon be squeezed out and his value $$$ will drop significantly. GCS have 3 x quality mids coming this draft plus the other kids from recent drafts, the club and Sam know what is ahead.

They know now is the right time to jump or fall through the cracks in the VFL.

 

[gringo2011]

Better not be us.

Stephenson has approached several AFL clubs, including Port Adelaide and Carlton, to gauge their interest in him, according to three sources who confirmed his interest in a potential return on the condition of anonymity.

He was such an unfulfilled talent. Go back and watch his games at Collingwood. Going to a bottom club when you are a fire starter was a terrible bit of management. He's got some Ginnivan about him when up and about. His whole time at North was wasted. If you got him on minimum wage and paid nothing but a list spot he'd be good for someone. Maybe not us now we have Ryan.

 

[stavro#4]

Controversial opinion, a bit convoluted and probably unlikely…. but if the dogs pay massive overs for Cal and we can somehow sling Marshall and something to the cats for SDK. I’m not against it. SDK, Silvagni, Tauru and Aleer as a backline, with picks incoming, is a big long term list upgrade from 2025.

Sorry, what!?

You think losing Marshall AND Wilkie for SDK is an upgrade?

 

[FQFjt]

Agreeing to a contract or a set of rules does not mean the contract is protected from judicial review. It's not exactly a fringe opinion that parts of the AFL draft and contract system might not hold up under legal challenge.

I said 'go nuclear' above because it would have to be an extraordinary circumstance and player would make themselves an absolute pariah within the league (i.e. to clubs and AFL House). Wilkie's not going to be that guy but I am not changing my view that it's still an undercurrent when a contracted player requests a trade.

I would assume that the player movement rules are also conditions of each team's licence, which is a contract between the club and the AFL and has nothing to do with restraint of trade. I very much doubt that the system is a built on a house of cards that any disgruntled player (and there have been many) could exploit with ease.

 

[AirWinmar]

Blokes old enough to pull his head in and clearly hasnt

If anything he has actually got worse

 

[Joffaboy]

The overlay to a lot of player movements in the last ~ten years (or maybe, underlay is a better term) and why clubs facilitate player's requests is the AFL is (rightly) very worried that a player will go nuclear and bring a restraint of trade action against the club / AFL; they may well win and it would break the current system apart.

Pretty much every person on this board who is employed has the option of going to their employer tomorrow and resigning, and then can choose a new employer in the same field (and don't bring up supposed restrain of trade clauses in normal contracts, they are virtually always unenforceable except in niche circumstances). It is very unusual that AFL players cannot do that, the clubs understand that and that's why almost always a deal gets done if a player truly wants out.

I see your restraint of trade and raise a breach of contract.