List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Sainter62]

How good

View attachment 2429264

That's what a mass exodus looks like to those numbnut "journos"

 

[Ads734]

Surely we don’t trade both Steele and Ro.

On the contrary I think one definitely goes.

Imagine tho , we lose Wilkie, ro and Steele. Yikes.

 

[Joffaboy]

Nothing wrong with a finisher in a good side. We have needed 22 work horses to cover for lack of skills for years. In a better side guys that get out in space and convert are a genuine asset. I reckon he was mismanaged out of the AFL. He's not too different to guys like Ginnivan who've made a career out of being an annoying dickhead.

Yeah I know, was just taking the piss. Would never call Hill inside but is quite damaging with run and delivery.

 

[sauce_head]

OK so to be clear, I used 'restraint of trade' to mean 'the ability to practice a person's normal occupation'. I said 'virtually unenforceable' as a function of how often employers include purported restraint on performing one's normal occupation vs. how often that particular restraint would be enforceable.

Your comment above raises restraints in the context of non-solicitation and IP protection which are proper and reasonable but that's not what I was talking about. I'm talking about literally the ability to ply your trade. 'Goodwill' implies a business purchase / sale of some sort so wouldn't seem relevant to an AFL player.

I am not sure if this is your point already but not being able to break a contract to enable the negotiation of another contract to do essentially the same thing (with the same standard conditions), is not a restraint of trade. A restraint of trade could possibly occur initially where the player does not enjoy the choice of where he plays, due to a drafting system or similar. However, once freely able to agree to a contract outside of any duress etc, it does not become restraint of trade simply because one party to the agreement seeks to enforce said contract. If, once the contract has been validly terminated there were restrictions as to where the player could play, then that may be a restraint of trade scenario whereby the relevant clauses may be deemed unenforceable.

 

[ThomasR]

Sorry, what!?

You think losing Marshall AND Wilkie for SDK is an upgrade?

You missed the part where Dogs pay massive overs for Wilkie

I think if you can turn Marshall (29yo) and Wilkie (29) into Naughton (25), SDK (24) and Flanders (24) you'd have to look at it. Keeps that window open for a lot longer.

Naughton is an immeasurably better forward than Marshall and prospered as a second tall to Darcy, kicking 60 goals this year. Would likely do the same standing next to King

SDK is a 204cm full back who can compete with the giant forwards. A point of difference to Wilkie (and JSOS, Aleer, Tauru, Barrat etc), and apart from an ageing Howard we don't really have that type

I could see the Cats trading SDK if it unlocks the Curnow trade, with O'Sullivan looking the goods. Likewise the Dogs with Naughton/Wilkie as they have Croft coming through and the Crows showed three tall forwards in a final doesn't really work. Would be a huge call by them but it will take one if they want to prise out Cal

Wouldn't have even thought it was possible to lose our most important (and contracted) player but if you can significantly improve the balance and age profile of the list, it needs consideration

 

[Joffaboy]

The question Stav is if the Bulldogs were prepared to trade the necessary pieces in a trade would we pull the trigger and do it?

That’s the question we need to ask ourselves.

We need to seriously consider that they will be prepared to eat a shit sandwich to get this done, otherwise they just look sillier and more desperate by the minute.

Presumably the Bulldogs have gamed this out.

Well they would have to eat OUR shit sandwich, not what they consider a shit sandwich ( Kamis and two future 2nds)

 

[stavro#4]

You missed the part where Dogs pay massive overs for Wilkie

I think if you can turn Marshall (29yo) and Wilkie (29) into Naughton (25), SDK (24) and Flanders (24) you'd have to look at it. Keeps that window open for a lot longer.

Naughton is an immeasurably better forward than Marshall and prospered as a second tall to Darcy, kicking 60 goals this year. Would likely do the same standing next to King

SDK is a 204cm full back who can compete with the giant forwards. A point of difference to Wilkie (and JSOS, Aleer, Tauru, Barrat etc), and apart from an ageing Howard we don't really have that type

I could see the Cats trading SDK if it unlocks the Curnow trade, with O'Sullivan looking the goods. Likewise the Dogs with Naughton/Wilkie as they have Croft coming through and the Crows showed three tall forwards in a final doesn't really work. Would be a huge call by them but it will take one if they want to prise out Cal

Wouldn't have even thought it was possible to lose our most important (and contracted) player but if you can significantly improve the balance and age profile of the list, it needs consideration

I see zero futures that the dogs trade Naughton this offseason.

They are going to purely go down the pick route or offer junk like Khamis

 

[tassiesaint2024]

Sorry, what!?

You think losing Marshall AND Wilkie for SDK is an upgrade?

No. That isn’t what I said, well not what I meant to say. No one in their right mind would say Marshall and Wilkie for SDK in isolation is an upgrade. Thought the dogs paying massive overs part was clear.

Marshall in my mind is superfluous now with TDK coming in, as I’ve said many times.

The players we have picked up in the backline are quality and if you add SDK into that mix. I’d say it’s a very strong defence.

Add the “massive overs” from the dogs for Cal (a player or two and a FRP for instance) and in my opinion, we are stronger long term.

Just my view.

 

[Sully111]

Everything is peaches and cream as long as Wilkie doesn't request a trade. That will be a Defcon 1 level disaster. I would hope that the club would then stick to their guns and do what the Swans did with Papley.

I don't think it would be a disaster. It would just be a reflection on Wilkie imo.

The club has already done enough to get some credit. We're not going to have every single thing go our way, and that's ok.

If by some chance he did say he wants to go to the dogs we say no or we get a hefty reward, but either way, it shouldn't be blown up to be more than it is.

 

[stavro#4]

No. That isn’t what I said, well not what I meant to say. No one in their right mind would say Marshall and Wilkie for SDK in isolation is an upgrade. Thought the dogs paying massive overs part was clear.

Marshall in my mind is superfluous now with TDK coming in, as I’ve said many times.

The players we have picked up in the backline are quality and if you add SDK into that mix. I’d say it’s a very strong defence.

Add the “massive overs” from the dogs for Cal (a player or two and a FRP for instance) and in my opinion, we are stronger long term.

Just my view.

Can’t see the cats trading SDK for Marshall and the dogs pick 10.

Can’t see the dogs parting with someone like Freijah, let alone AND pick 10.

It’s why the entire scenario sounds like Beveridge is on crack

 

[The Punter]

Can’t see the cats trading SDK for Marshall and the dogs pick 10.

Can’t see the dogs parting with someone like Freijah, let alone AND pick 10.

It’s why the entire scenario sounds like Beveridge is on crack

Funny you mention that, beca<REDACTED>

 

[phantom13]

It’s funny what is a pure athlete vs pure footballer. For someone his size he has a beautiful kick technique and times his spoils as well as anyone.

Hmmm dont agree, his kicking mechanics arent great and his decision making with ball in hand is very unnatural.

In any event my point was that he has alot of scope to improve as a footballer and has every athletic gift in the world.

Its a positive.

 

[Armoooo]

Weird list of clubs for Flanders isn't it?

Melbourne, Carlton, Essendon and Us?

Surely we're the only ones threatening finals action any time soon. So does he want the money, guaranteed midfield spot even if it's in a bottom side, a better chance of success or some mixture of the 3. You'd have to think he's ours.

Our first definitely gets it done, we'll probably play handball for as long as possible trying to get something back.

If we can turn our first into Flanders and Aleer, I'd be pretty happy.

 

[NAS THE GOAT]

Can someone send Bevo Steven May

1

Steven May

Age

33

Ht

193cm

Wt

101kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

307.3

4star

D

15.5

4star

K

12.1

5star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

378.4

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

’s phone number? Then he can call a KPD who is available to have a chat to. Instead of trying to pull off Hail Mary calls on Cal Wilkie

 

[TheNewEnsign]

If, once the contract has been validly terminated there were restrictions as to where the player could play, then that may be a restraint of trade scenario whereby the relevant clauses may be deemed unenforceable.

This is the point I was getting at and I suppose we can't know the answer without actually seeing a player's contract and whatever post-employment restrictions apply.

Some other comments are a bit muddied by the posters thinking that players are contractors engaged under a service agreement whereas they are not; the CBA makes it clear they are employees - (although employees of both the club and the AFL and tbh I have no idea how that works practically speaking).

So I guess the scenario I'd put forward is - Player (A) is employed by a club under a contract expiring in 2027. He wants a huge payday so 'resigns' from his employment with the club (as surely he must be able to since he's an employee) giving adequate notice of the resignation.

Club (X) is so desperate for this player they are willing to offer them employment. Presumably they can do this and if the offer was made, does the AFL or former club have some kind of enforcement mechanism to stop it?

Edit: Reading your comment again, perhaps because the AFL would be a party to both employment agreements and there's a CBA involved is the protection against restraint of trade.

 

[Sainter62]

You think let’s say 2 of, Croft Sanders Freijah will be offered up?

two? not even one of

 

[TheJackal]

Well they would have to eat OUR shit sandwich, not what they consider a shit sandwich ( Kamis and two future 2nds)

Please don't mention sandwiches, I've still got trauma and I'm only just recovering.

 

[stavro#4]

really mate?

Just wait until the season ends. This is going to make the Merrett/Essendon divorce seem like a conscious uncoupling.

Cals management are willing to get super personal, accusations of nepotism (no guesses who that applies to) and a culture of bullying and harassment.

If a trade isn't sorted out quicksmart we will be in unprecedented territory. My understanding is that the dogs know the extent to which Cal and his manager are willing to go and as such wont feel in any particular rush to make their best offer.

Dogs are either going to score the heist of a century or there is going to be a schoolgirl sized PR drama for my poor old saints.

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

Didn't we pull that exact maneuver with Heath Black one year? He didn't get back to WA because we couldn't get the fax sent in time?

Grant Thomas has spoken about this happening with Stephen Milne.cant remember who though.

 

[Leap of Faith]

You missed the part where Dogs pay massive overs for Wilkie

I think if you can turn Marshall (29yo) and Wilkie (29) into Naughton (25), SDK (24) and Flanders (24) you'd have to look at it. Keeps that window open for a lot longer.

Naughton is an immeasurably better forward than Marshall and prospered as a second tall to Darcy, kicking 60 goals this year. Would likely do the same standing next to King

SDK is a 204cm full back who can compete with the giant forwards. A point of difference to Wilkie (and JSOS, Aleer, Tauru, Barrat etc), and apart from an ageing Howard we don't really have that type

I could see the Cats trading SDK if it unlocks the Curnow trade, with O'Sullivan looking the goods. Likewise the Dogs with Naughton/Wilkie as they have Croft coming through and the Crows showed three tall forwards in a final doesn't really work. Would be a huge call by them but it will take one if they want to prise out Cal

Wouldn't have even thought it was possible to lose our most important (and contracted) player but if you can significantly improve the balance and age profile of the list, it needs consideration

I know trading CW is just about unthinkable but for a deal like SDK, Naughton and Flanders you’d have to take it. Seems very unlikely to me.

 

[beside the seaside]

I loved the Bulldogs 2016 premiership, probably the greatest flag of this period of footy and amazing to see a drought broken.

Having said that their supporters carry on like they're this dynasty side when they've been nothing but disappointing ever since. They didn't even make finals this year and haven't won one since 2021 yet their fans think they're on the cusp of a flag.

Come win a flag with us Wilks lol. Such a strange bunch of supporters.

 

[stavro#4]

Grant Thomas has spoken about this happening with Stephen Milne.cant remember who though.

Milney was going back to essendon until GT got sacked and Ross came in wasn’t he?

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I had a dream about unicorns last night

Wilkie for Sam Darcy confirmed

You were dreaming of kernelT mate...

 

[Joffaboy]

really mate

So he will nuke the club and his mates by calling JSOS nepotism and saying they held a gun to his head to make all those glowing video's.
All those who have re-signed and have nomed us have been bullied

This is very creative stuff.

 

[TheNewEnsign]

So he will nuke the club and his mates by calling JSOS nepotism and saying they held a gun to his head to make all those glowing video's.
All those who have re-signed and have nomed us have been bullied

This is very creative stuff.

Don't forget when Ross said on Footy Classified that Cal had called him up earlier in the same evening to say he loved the club - RtB clearly making that up too so the rot goes even deeper.