List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[L_W_P]

If Butters and and Nas both want to leave end of this season we have to get him. It’s a perfect trade. If he doesn’t want to play for us we need to change his mind.

Easier said than done.

This is why the AFL needs to change the rules re: contracted players. If they are asking for a trade back to a specific state, and they aren't qualified as FA players, then the clubs should be able to deal with whichever team they want.

Nas wants back home? Cool, if both teams are happy to meet his contract demands then let the bidding war begin.

Butters wants back to Vic? Awesome. Hey Port, straight swap?

Then it's on us to convince Butters to stay on long term, rather than having to try and sell him the club from the outside.

 

[Saint Shags]

Those clubs are gonna talk to him regardless of what we might say.

And that is fine. What i would be concerned with is a club encouraging a player to talk to other clubs.

Weren't we in a similar situation last year? Didn't we encourage some to look at other avenues.

 

[phantom13]

And that is fine. What i would be concerned with is a club encouraging a player to talk to other clubs.

Weren't we in a similar situation last year? Didn't we encourage some to look at other avenues.

Think youre putting way too much emphasis on the word encourage.

We wouldnt have said "Yeh Nas, go have a chat with Port and the Crows while youre home cause we dont really give a ****, happy to trade you".

We would have said "We get it, your home and family is there, happy for you to chat to them, would be silly not too but you know we want to make you home here and will basically give you whatever you want. Speak to them and keep us informed of where youre at".

There is nothing unusual or remiss that the club is doing here.

 

[L_W_P]

Yeah from the outside looking in it’s pretty shambolic at this point. Hopefully things are being sorted behind the scenes but things are starting to feel really ominous

I don't think it's been shambolic.

Look at how Carlton have handled TDK vs how we are handling NWM.

Tommy has been ostracized, talked down, scrutinized on every possession and is now being forced into a subpar role in order to allow the Blues to start prepping for next year.

Meanwhile we are still pumping Nas up, using him as a key part of the team, putting value into his role and position in the squad and highlighting him as a star of our future finals push.

All the signs from Carlton are saying "Just **** off already" while all the signs from the Saints are saying "We will do what we can to keep you."

Ultimately Nas might still leave but I don't think that money or the handling of the offer are going to be the tipping points.

It's a question of potential success at both clubs combined with being able to enjoy playing with mates.

Does he feel better with Port, JHF & Jace or the Saints, Windy & Keeler?

 

[stavro#4]

So what is it?

They know he either goes home now or in 2 years time?

You can let people talk to however they want, without encouraging them to do it.
See the difference?

You’re caught up with him signing this contract. The reality is that it seems it’s going to be a 2 year deal.

I will say my opinion is also that…

Had Bergman not re-signed
Had port retained their FRP this year (currently 8) + Joe Berry.

I reckon the landscape would be pretty different and we could be seeing a deal done this year.

Kicking the can 2 years down the road represents our current best path forward. A lot can change in a few months let alone 2 years. You want to show that his best interests are also our best interests.

The club don’t want Nasiah for 2 more years. They want him for an entire career. You let him do what he needs now, you get your 2 years and you just have given yourself some breathing room to attempt to make it impossible for him to walk away in a few years time - when he could be very settled off the field and we could be flying on it.

You encourage him to do what he needs now to feel comfortable enough to say this is where I want to be and the fact Port aren’t in an asset position to make this a straight forward deal today helps us and wouldn’t be lost on his management.

 

[goodie23]

Surely any deal is subject to a medical, wasn’t that the out on Soldo last year.

And wasn't that a sliding doors moment - Port would've almost certainly used the Soldo pick on Dodson.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[gringo2011]

Tail end of the season and too many important contracts not done.

If we've offered unders to the likes of Windy, while throwing 1.7 at a ruckman, it will have an effect on the psyche of players. It's human nature to want to feel valued, particularly when you're giving 100% in a side that's losing most games.

The longer it goes on, the more the risk of losing players.

FFS just get it done.

Nearly certain that Nas is gone now. Windhager sounds like they wouldn't mind cashing him in as he's not in long term planning.

Could be a lot of movement this season. Marshall is almost certainly gone. Steele looking around, Windy looking around and you imagine a fairly hard cull of middlers.

 

[Sir Owens]

NAS is gone-ski. The AFL needs to bring in that if you're not a free agent or a restricted free agent, you can't choose where you want to play.

The best chance of re-signing him now is to go scorched earth with the manager and demand a massive premium for any trade, or else he's off to the preseason draft. Carl Dilena has already subtly floated this on the podcast.

Hastie is locked in on the half-back flank now for the rest of the year.

 

[Yawkey way]

Dan Butler says hi

Oh please it’s not even close, butler is a decent kick who occasionally miss hits one as does Sharman. Gresham need to run wide for extra distance from 30m.

Before his injury problems he had more range but even at junior level he kicked mongrel punts trying for distance. He was a turn them inside out, look up and hit a target player. He was also a clever small forward who kicked goals at a good rate before his injury’s.

I have nothing against him, he’s still doing a decent job for the dopers.

 

[gringo2011]

I wouldn't look into that too much, that whole series of articles about the player managers has been Saints Bashing Central.

In the "Clubs player want to play for" from Monday, our premiership window score was given 3 points - worst in the AFL, 1 behind WC, 2 behind powerhouses North Melb, Richmond and Essendon. And our "Culture" was rated behind culture kings such as Carlton, Melbourne and the Bombers.

If Nas goes we are probably looking at a longer term rebuild unfortunately. It's not looking like we are heading for greener pastures lately. I'd say we are behind everyone besides Richmond and WCE after likely list changes and the Tigers had a windfall 2024 draft. If our kids don't come on we are absolutely screwed.

 

[gringo2011]

It makes no sense to me have not locked down the likes of Windy and Hall, regardless of what Nas is doing.

In the case of Hall in particular, his price would have increased, so essentially the delay could have bitten us on the arse somewhat, even if we sign him.

I think a balance needs to be struck between not being pushovers and identifying the players to take us forward, and showing them some faith. Particularly when we're throwing huge contracts at players outside the club.

SOS seems like the old fashioned hard man type negotiator who doesn't move much.

 

[goodie23]

Nearly certain that Nas is gone now. Windhager sounds like they wouldn't mind cashing him in as he's not in long term planning.

Could be a lot of movement this season. Marshall is almost certainly gone. Steele looking around, Windy looking around and you imagine a fairly hard cull of middlers.

This post-season is real make-or-break territory, SOS and co. will either come out of it looking like geniuses or donkeys.

 

[Saint Shags]

Nearly certain that Nas is gone now. Windhager sounds like they wouldn't mind cashing him in as he's not in long term planning.

Could be a lot of movement this season. Marshall is almost certainly gone. Steele looking around, Windy looking around and you imagine a fairly hard cull of middlers.

Its simple. We lose Nas and Windy. The build starts again.

 

[stavro#4]

Twomey

- both Adelaide clubs offers are front ended. Likely $2m in his first season or two over there.

- However there is confidence that he will sign a 2 year deal at the saints

 

[aidansbonor]

Easier said than done.

This is why the AFL needs to change the rules re: contracted players. If they are asking for a trade back to a specific state, and they aren't qualified as FA players, then the clubs should be able to deal with whichever team they want.

Nas wants back home? Cool, if both teams are happy to meet his contract demands then let the bidding war begin.

Butters wants back to Vic? Awesome. Hey Port, straight swap?

Then it's on us to convince Butters to stay on long term, rather than having to try and sell him the club from the outside.

Realistically how are we going to convince butters to come to us after losing our best player in over a decade, whilst sitting in the bottom 4

Love the idea and love Zak as a player but seems impossible he'd nominate us over Dogs, Cats, Hawks etc

 

[_Maximus_12]

Like clock-work; the weekly 48 hour 'Sky if falling' window has opened.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Twomey

- both Adelaide clubs offers are front ended. Likely $2m in his first season or two over there.

- However there is confidence that he will sign a 2 year deal at the saints

The exact phrase 'I also think that both teams have front ended their offers too. It could even be to that $2million dollar mark for multiple seasons at the start of their offers'


Still very much speculation.

 

[tommo7]

Confidence in this, confidence in that, just sign the bloody contract please.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

We were confident about battle aswell

 

[The Jack]

Agreed on all points posted.

May as well be now then if that's the case. Why prolong it? We aint winning a flag in the next 2 years.

 

[beside the seaside]

May as well be now then if that's the case. Why prolong it? We aint winning a flag in the next 2 years.

It's never certain that a player will go home. Things can change drastically, if we can get Nas to sign a two year deal who knows where things are at in two years' time.

In terms of the "sky is falling" though, he's our best young player and he is unsigned getting into late July with the SA teams coming hard for him. It's a difficult time for supporters and we went through the exact same thing with Battle last year, it's reasonable for supporters to be concerned at this stage of course we all hope he signs on as it seems if he leaves we'll get screwed.

 

[akaifu]

He's been pretty unimpressive to me. Probably costs a FRDP for a pretty meh player. I'd rather take our chances at the draft.

MacKenzie just needs more inside mid time - Hawks are playing him too much on the outside. He goes from the 5th banana to probably starting top 3 CBA mid with us especially if we let Steele go

He's a good ball user and that's what we need in our midfield imo. I honestly think we can turn our pick ~8 into Cmack + Aleer and maybe a steak knives guy like James Blanck for KPD depth if we cut Howard. If we keep our pick this year we pretty much get a Greeves so its Greeves vs Cmack + 2nd rounder. Given how many 1st & 2nd yr mids we have, Cmack suits our age demographic pretty well alongside Pou

Could have a CBA rotation of Macrae, Phillipou, MacKenzie, Garcia, Boxshall, NWM next year. Add on maybe MiniPou with the Marshall pick and perhaps a Riley Onley (194cm inside mid) with a potential Steele pick

 

[Miha]

Gone

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Only thing is worpel leaves so they will wanna keep mckenzie