List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion

[_Maximus_12]

Nas wants to be a part of St Kildas next great team. His words.
The signatures of Aleer and TDK are important as they help make the vision feel real.

 

[botts]

Theo Dorighsjwotjdbspolous on Triple M

There would literally be no point in us doing that. We would rather offer nas another 100g

 

[Sir Owens]

If we beat Geelong, I'm calling in sick on Tuesday.

 

[_Maximus_12]

If we beat Geelong, I'm calling in sick on Tuesday.

Why stop at Tuesday

 

[akaifu]

The 1.8m must be the front-loaded salary

 

[SainterinSydney]

I think this is some of my best work

 

[billings2paddy]

King is 26 next year, he's in the second half of his career.

Gone

 

[akaifu]

King is 26 next year, he's in the second half of his career.

The optimist would say this is a point where he can reset to square one and potentially have a new lease on life

The club gets his body right - hopefully this "mechanical" problem is the true reason. Does the pre-season and plays most of the next 5+ years right when the side is starting to peak in terms of premiership contention

Like how Curnow and Daniher have/did

 

[SinCitySainter]

Have we really increased our offer to TDK? If that is true then as a club we have lost the plot.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

 

[aidansbonor]

"Saints aren't the right club or fit for him and don't deserve him"

if nas extends I'm not gonna be able to help myself from dropping a few little nice comments over there

 

[Diehard Saint]

View attachment 2370501

"Saints aren't the right club or fit for him and don't deserve him"

if nas extends I'm not gonna be able to help myself from dropping a few little nice comments over there

And why is that?
We don’t deserve him? But they do?
We drafted him, developed him……
what a bizarre post

 

[PandaG]

This chat around Wilson, Garcia and Hastie being potential AA picks is delusional. I pray I'm wrong but what have we seen yet that shows they will get anywhere near that level? There are about five blokes from Wilsons draft class that would already be way ahead of him if you were picking an AA midfield from that draft alone!

Go back to 2016 and see if we weren't saying the exact same things about Billings, Dunstan, Gresham and McCartin. I'll believe we are turning a corner when I see it, but right now we are absolutely nowhere.

Can see Garcia getting there. Drive aggression and talent.

 

[SainterinSydney]

And why is that?
We don’t deserve him? But they do?
We drafted him, developed him……
what a bizarre post

They are a bit different down in SA--the whole cousin thing...

 

[Dr Spaceman]

View attachment 2370501

"Saints aren't the right club or fit for him and don't deserve him"

if nas extends I'm not gonna be able to help myself from dropping a few little nice comments over there

 

[Teflon]

Firstly I’m not the coach, nor the list manager, it’s not incumbent upon me to find the solutions and even if I did they would be meaningless.

Secondly this is the issue. People just preach patience forever. Well we can get mad but that won’t fix anything, be patient.

I’m actually in for giving Ross his allotted time and letting him cook away (my commentary on 2025 is actually that it is what it is, I’m neither mad nor particularly optimistic about it) but my point is that people always have an out.

If 2026 goes to shit there will be the “injuries and a bad draw” crew. Same in 27 and so on. At what point do THEY say “actually nah this is ****ing shit”.

You say that but sound mad…odd

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I’m happy for someone to archive this and prove me wrong but I don’t rate the duursmas. Something about both of them that just looks… I don’t know… ****inf average

Yep, entirely agree.

 

[Teflon]

Anyone know what Tony said about battle this time last yr?

Battle was very heavily influenced on the home front with some Hawk help as well luring his away from Saints …that I do know as fact ..

 

[Teflon]

Don't shoot the messenger but was listening to SEN today ( rarely do) and they were talking about CTE victim Hodge having a go at Riewoldt not criticising Lyon.
Lots of Hodge never critisised Clarkson, Ratten is a Hawthorn coach etc, but they brought up an interesting stat.
Andy Maher was arguing with King about the Saints off air. Apparently King pulled up stats saying we were the fastest team in the comp to get it inside 50 but one of the worst to convert. King believes if Max King was there we win another 5 games for the season.
Now just an opinion by David King but the two stats were telling. How much better did we look with a plodder like Heath bringing the ball to ground and making the defenders actually work.

I firmly subscribe that we have been severely hampered all year without our key back and key forward.

Don't know if we make finals so probably better to be shit this season and get a better pick than come 9th and have pick 13.
I am willing to give Lyon a Mulligan for this year, but if we get the same stack of injuries next preseason that derailed the past two seasons, our preparation needs to be reviewed closely. Gives us no chance or any momentum.

Agree with this
I think people wank on about all Bombers injuries but if you looked at injuries to sides in positions based purely on impact of those injuries I think you’ll find losing your only true gun tall forward and key back would be right up there
Probably also highlights our weakness in too much King dependence…

 

[tomjoad]

Getting *****ng ridiculous, 1.3 take it or leave tdk.

Let him decide if playing in front of "big crowds" is worth 300k,

Also it's funny how carlton playing in front of big crowds is meant to be this massive draw card when it's those same people abusing the players down the race after the game

75-80 thousand people watching you lose week in week out in peak timeslots. No thanks.
If you find that shit attractive, then you're a self flagellating masochist.
If TDK has any brains he'll cash in and be happy to lose Infront of 10000 folk on a Sunday afternoon with a team perpetually rebuilding and selling hope to a deranged fan based that can't stop believing the hype.
Too easy. 1.7-1.8 a year...
Money for jam...easy life.
That's just good self management and business sense right there.
I can't stand Max King. Think he's an overrated spud...but I admire him for cashing in. Dude is cruising.
If TDK is too thick headed to see that, then better not to have him.
We must be firm in our over paying "No Smooth Brains" policy.

 

[Teflon]

I really like Carroll as a player but on balance it was a mistake to sign him after giving Jones another year and bringing in Macrae, left us with a glut of mids which has been great for Sandy but has seen us ranked 17th for contested marks, 17th for spoils, 17th for offensive contested 1v1 wins, 17th for hitouts to advantage and 18th for hitouts - basically dominated in any aerial stat due to our lack of genuine talls

So who would you have gone after instead to fix the lack of tall? Only Blakiston ?

 

[Teflon]

Reckon that says more about Ross and his relationship to Battle than anything else personally but weve done that dance.

Or more likely Battles ability to be swayed by personal relationships outside the club which is expected ….and how it played out ..

 

[jwint43]

Running around without an opponent? You mean All Australian premiership defender Steven May? The amount of disrespect Keeler receives from our own supporters is ridiculous. Remember the pass to Higgins against Collingwood on his opposite foot threaded between 5 pies defenders, no 200cm players can do that. Or kicking goals on the run from 60 metres. But he hasn’t done anything special? The likes of Max Heath is 2 years older and about 10kg heavier than Keeler. Once he puts on another 8kg and can win some one on ones he will be pretty special. Here’s the season averages of some of the comps youngest key forwards prior to the weekend-

Jed Walter 7.4 disposals 1.2 goals
Jye Amiss 7.6 disposals 1.1 goals
Isaac Keeler 6.8 disposals 0.9 goals
Ethan Read 6.6 disposals 0.9 goals
Matt Jefferson 4 disposals 0.4 goals
Max Gruzewski 3.7 disposals 0.7 goals

Prior to his 1 possession stinker his averages matched that of Walter and Amiss, two top 10 draft picks. I’m over the amount of hate this kid gets just because get gets bodied occasionally. Not many of the above forwards are drawing the likes of Barrass and Harris Andrews either. We’ve set him up to fail by making him be the main focal point when he should have been eased in to take the 2nd or 3rd defender, a luxury most young KPF’s get. And his 1 game as a defender drew far better stats than any of tauru’s games so far but literally went unnoticed. I find it bizarre how many supporters generally dislike and don’t rate this kid.

The jury is still out on Keeler, but the one thing you're 100% right on is him having to take the best defender every time he plays. We've actually done alot right this year and it would be a different season if King wasn't injured. We are competitive against everyone in the last 6 weeks, but it breaks down going forward because we have to be perfect to score a goal.

I've said it a few times, but King is the key to unlocking our best team. Owens and Sharman will be far deadlier when they aren't taking the 2nd and 3rd best defenders.

 

[jwint43]

We wont know whether SOS and the club have pulled the right levers with the list rebuild for another couple of years. I can see what the club are trying to do, but you have to question when our fortunes will finally turn.

SOS Positives:
Off loading Billings and Gresham were definitely a big tick for SOS!
Extracting and signing Caminiti was a huge sucess = tick!
We added a delisted Liam Stocker, who has become a solid player = tick!
Macrae last year and his experience has been invaluable. He is a bit of a victim of our young midfield group as most weeks he has worn a tagger, but given the speed of the game you can see why the Bulldogs were keen to get his salary off their books = tick!
I see Tauru playing a Tom Stewart/Sicily type role moving forward. If he becomes a mutliple AA the Battle trade will be a win, but that is years away for the kid to get to those levels. Prospective tick!
It looks likely we will end up adding at the minimum TDK and Aleer to our list - tick!
Drafting has continued to improve since he arrived (Dalrymple) = tick!

SOS Neutrals:
NAS, Windhager and others not signed nearing the end of the year = questionable???
Paddy Dow and more recently Jack Carroll both still have a major ???
Not being in a position to take a player at the mid season draft was questionable.
Releasing Membrey who would have been handy this year ?

SOS Negatives:
Inability to attract an elite midfielder is a huge fail for SOS and the club = fail.
The loss of Battle who regardless of the circumstances, he was the best CHB we have had at the club for sometime = significant loss.
Not recruiting a ready to play CHB after losing Battle = fail.
Most think Marshall will ask to leave and Steele(?) has also been looking around = significant loss.
Recruitment of Harry Boyd was a complete waste of a list position = loss.

Regardless of our ladder position in the main SOS and the club have got most things right as far as player movements are concerned. As a list manager it would be difficult to cover the injuries to key players we have had since his arrival.

I highly doubt it will occur, but if we can turn Marshall and or Steele into quality draft picks that will be another win!

You can't just lay this all on a list manager and simplify it down to a pass or a fail.

"Inability to attract an elite midfielder is a huge fail for SOS and the club = fail."
Is this on SOS? Noone gets elite inside midfielders in their prime without paying a massive price. If you consider Bailey Smith an "inside mid" then he is probabaly the only one that was a steal, and Geelong have the biggest trading advantage in the comp. Elite ballwinners very rarely move clubs, and if they do, they go to winning situations (Dunkley to Brisbane, Smith to Cats) so I feel it's unfair to pin this on him. Almost all inside mid's trades are young project/potential players like Caldwell.

"The loss of Battle who regardless of the circumstances, he was the best CHB we have had at the club for sometime = significant loss".
How much can you blame a list manager on this? If a player wants to leave, there's not much a list manager can do to stop them. If Trav and Taura end up being guns, this will be seen as a win, it's far too early to judge this move.

"Not recruiting a ready to play CHB after losing Battle = fail" Again, CHB's don't just grow on trees. You can't just go "oh well, we lost Battle, let's now recruit a gun backman!" It doesn't work like that.

What he should be scrutinised on is being obsessed with bringing in players from the last place he worked. He did it at Carlton with the Giants and he's doing it with us. My main concern with SOS is his knowledge based is severely limited and he focuses on what he knows rather than daring to get creative.

 

[gubby88]

You can't just lay this all on a list manager and simplify it down to a pass or a fail.

"Inability to attract an elite midfielder is a huge fail for SOS and the club = fail."
Is this on SOS? Noone gets elite inside midfielders in their prime without paying a massive price. If you consider Bailey Smith an "inside mid" then he is probabaly the only one that was a steal, and Geelong have the biggest trading advantage in the comp. Elite ballwinners very rarely move clubs, and if they do, they go to winning situations (Dunkley to Brisbane, Smith to Cats) so I feel it's unfair to pin this on him. Almost all inside mid's trades are young project/potential players like Caldwell.

"The loss of Battle who regardless of the circumstances, he was the best CHB we have had at the club for sometime = significant loss".
How much can you blame a list manager on this? If a player wants to leave, there's not much a list manager can do to stop them. If Trav and Taura end up being guns, this will be seen as a win, it's far too early to judge this move.

"Not recruiting a ready to play CHB after losing Battle = fail" Again, CHB's don't just grow on trees. You can't just go "oh well, we lost Battle, let's now recruit a gun backman!" It doesn't work like that.

What he should be scrutinised on is being obsessed with bringing in players from the last place he worked. He did it at Carlton with the Giants and he's doing it with us. My main concern with SOS is his knowledge based is severely limited and he focuses on what he knows rather than daring to get creative.

just wondering what number Jack Macrae wore at carlton