2026 Brownlow Medal

[Mr Meow]

And here we have it folks!

My favourite narrative has made yet another appearance!

Meanwhile, Collingwood have contended for multiple premierships, including winning one (in no small way courtesy of N. Daicos himself), while over the same time period the Doggies have had a single Elimination Final loss...

Love it!

Ablett didn't play a single final 2011-2015 while Sam Mitchell 3peated and starred in finals to a far greater degree than Daicos ever has. Perhaps Mitchell's the undisputed best midfielder of the century.

Joel Corey was a lot more successful than Chris Judd 2007-2011 too.

22 players dictate team success. If one player has a single final over a 3 year period it's likely because his team was severely deficient in some areas. You can have 2 or 3 star midfielders each season and be a mediocre team overall. It doesn't diminish the excellence of their best player.

2023 Daicos had some solid midfield vote stealing competition, with a functional De Goey and Mitchell having his last competent season. 2024-2025 it was senior citizens and plodders. Bont in various seasons was with prime Macrae, Libba, Treloar and then in 2025 Richards - an F grade defence is what handicapped them. A bit different to Daicos alongside Ned Long and a 55 year old Pendlebury/Sidebottom double. The Brownlow and Coaches votes tallies each year for those midfield teammates tell the story.

 

[Cdog71]

Just one example, and this was before the 2025 season, where Daicos again outperformed Bont on season output...

Why Russell thinks there is “daylight” between the best player in the AFL and the rest

Dwayne Russell is a massive fan.

sen.com.au

But, but, but 'only die-hard Collingwood supporters!'

He also had Daicos as 6th best player for 26

 

[Fadge]

Ablett didn't play a single final 2011-2015 while Sam Mitchell 3peated and starred in finals to a far greater degree than Daicos ever has. Perhaps Mitchell's the undisputed best midfielder of the century.

Joel Corey was a lot more successful than Chris Judd 2007-2011 too.

Oh.

I hadn't realised Sam Mitchell consistently outpolled GAJ, and Joel Corey consistently outpolled Judd, in the Brownlow.

That's right, they didn't.

 

[Mr Meow]

Oh.

I hadn't realised Sam Mitchell consistently outpolled GAJ, and Joel Corey consistently outpolled Judd, in the Brownlow.

That's right, they didn't.

Now you're changing the argument again as I once again contradict your original points. I'm getting bored about you constantly whinging that nobody will agree with your Daicos assertions.

I've already calmly and rationally deconstructed it over thousands of words, with relevant facts. The rest is just you having a tantrum and everyone is getting sick of having to entertain it. Get over it and yourself.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

And here we have it folks!

My favourite narrative has made yet another appearance!

Meanwhile, Collingwood have contended for multiple premierships, including winning one (in no small way courtesy of N. Daicos himself), while over the same time period the Doggies have had a single Elimination Final loss...

Love it!

They tie themselves into knots with ridiculous, conflicting, illogical theories and flog phrases like "podium finish technology"

Meanwhile, the greatest vote winner per game in history is favourite for the Brownlow again

And don't they cry

 

[Fadge]

He also had Daicos as 6th best player for 26

You might want you understand the rationale for his 2026 rankings....

It's a prediction, based on a predicted harder season for Collingwood....

 

[HeathySure]

There are like 50 players to discuss in this thread. Maybe when it becomes clearer who are the favourites that we start discussing the chances. Plenty of other threads to discuss the usual suspects. Even i get bored with the same thing over and over in multiple threads

 

[Corn Cobbers]

There are like 50 players to discuss in this thread. Maybe when it becomes clearer who are the favourites that we start discussing the chances. Plenty of other threads to discuss the usual suspects. Even i get bored with the same thing over and over in multiple threads

The market is stark though

Daicos is very short, followed by NWM and Bont and then Butters, then you're basically already down to 20 to 1 long shots

So it's natural that these are the players you'd talk about the most pre-season

 

[Fadge]

Now you're changing the argument again as I once again contradict your original points. I'm getting bored about you constantly whinging that nobody will agree with your Daicos assertions.

I've already calmly and rationally deconstructed it over thousands of words, with relevant facts. The rest is just you having a tantrum and everyone is getting sick of having to entertain it. Get over it and yourself.

Yes, you 'contradicted' me....

By using Sam Mitchell, who played in a better team than GAJ yet received FEWER votes over the duration referenced, and Joel Corey, who played in a better team than Chris Judd yet received FEWER votes over the duration referenced, with Nick Daicos, who played in a better team than Bont but has received MORE votes over the duration referenced.

Some contradiction.

 

[Cdog71]

who played in a better team than Bont but has received MORE votes over the duration referenced.

I’ts interesting the amount of players in the Bulldogs who have positive champion data ratings.
I’m not really a SuperCoach guy but it does seem to me that Bulldogs have more threats in the midfield group than the Pies, that Daicos is the main player for Collingwood to make things happen or they get the ball in his hands or however you’d like to phrase it and for good reason.
It’s about the team dynamic from one club to another.
A better team..?
Yeah, ok you’ve had higher finishes and get scored against less than what the oppo scored against the bulldogs on average.
Daicos is about fwd transition and creating, I don’t think his positioning in the defensive structure is the number 1 priority

 

[ReturningHawk]

How did NWM poll last year? I’m interested to see how he’ll go this year with a few more hard tags.

Sam Mitchell claimed that we ‘tried’ to tag him when we played last year, but he had 27 uncontested possessions… wouldn’t call that the hardest of tags.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

It will be a 3 way tie between Bont, Daicos and NWM

AFL knows Bont has to get one, they can make this one Daicos first and since NWM got just 2 votes vs the dees he will get superstar bonus.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Oh.

So you're happy to give credit to Bont for 'raw stats' based on a head to head subjective comparison with Daicos.

But not happy to give Daicos credit for receiving more Coaches votes or Brownlow votes than Bont in years he didn't win.

Also completely ignoring finals performances when doing the comparisons.

Can you see how that may be perceived as disingenuous?

But you're missing the point that Bont is the better statistical player because he is the better player because he plays football better,.

But Bont has better teammates that steal votes from him because the Dogs have are more top heavy (ie they win games because their 1st-10th best on the park are talented, and the 11th-22th suck). They also have weak defence and games are won by the Dogs' midfield and forward line (with defenders harmed in all voting systems)

On the other hand, Collingwood win games where Daicos plays well, but the game was won by Collingwood's defenders who nontheless don't get votes, or otherwise their 11th-22th best players collectively playing well, without the top-heavy players competing with Nick Daicos to get votes.

There are literally circumstances in which Bont plays well for fewer coaches votes because he had an excellent game that would be BOG in most matches, but the Dogs had a player that played such an exceptional game they were BOG.

Or that Bont just was able to raise to another level to beat another excellent player, while Daicos didn't have to to still be the best midfielder in the game, and be BOG, but a 'lower' best on ground as Pies won through defenders and role players (who don't poll anyway).

Games with 9-10 coaches votes 2023-: Daicos 15, Bont 20
Average Player Ratings Points in those games: Daicos 20.1, Bont 24.9

Bont's average BOG game is clearly of a much higher standard than Daicos' BOG game, because that makes sense, because Bont's had to have had played an absolutely more excellent game to have had a better game than Libba/Richards/Naughton/Darcy

Whereas Daicos hasn't had to have played as such a good game because it's likely that the likes of Moore, Quaynor Maynard, Howe (who are all stronger than the Dogs) were the ones that contributed to wins, prevented opposition forwards and mids from having a good BOG games, but don't poll themselves, or if they do not above Daicos, because it's very hard to assess the contribution to winning by defenders but nonetheless they're responsible, but the votes go to Daicos.

Round 20, 2025: Dogs beat Essendon by 93 points. Naughton 7 goals, Darcy 6 goals, 10 and 7 coaches votes each. Bont 7 coaches votes with 20 kicks, 2 goals and 14 contested possessions and being higher ranked than both Darcy and Naughton on player ratings points.

Round 17, 2025: Collingwood beat Carlton by 59 points. Daicos 10 coaches votes from 22 kicks, but 8 votes to Moore and 5 votes to Cameron. ie Collingwood didn't win through depth of midfield, they won through defence and ruck as much.

Did Daicos really have a 3 better coaches vote game than Bontempelli? You would have us believe that he did.

You could have swapped Daicos and Bont's teams for the last three years, and I'm very confident, even if both players played as well, that Bont's coaches votes increases and Daicos' decreases.

 

[Mr Meow]

But you're missing the point that Bont is the better statistical player because he is the better player because he plays football better,.

But Bont has better teammates that steal votes from him because the Dogs have are more top heavy (ie they win games because their 1st-10th best on the park are talented, and the 11th-22th suck). They also have weak defence and games are won by the Dogs' midfield and forward line (with defenders harmed in all voting systems)

On the other hand, Collingwood win games where Daicos plays well, but the game was won by Collingwood's defenders who nontheless don't get votes, or otherwise their 11th-22th best players collectively playing well, without the top-heavy players competing with Nick Daicos to get votes.

There are literally circumstances in which Bont plays well for fewer coaches votes because he had an excellent game that would be BOG in most matches, but the Dogs had a player that played such an exceptional game they were BOG.

Or that Bont just was able to raise to another level to beat another excellent player, while Daicos didn't have to to still be the best midfielder in the game, and be BOG, but a 'lower' best on ground as Pies won through defenders and role players (who don't poll anyway).

Games with 9-10 coaches votes 2023-: Daicos 15, Bont 20
Average Player Ratings Points in those games: Daicos 20.1, Bont 24.9

Bont's average BOG game is clearly of a much higher standard than Daicos' BOG game, because that makes sense, because Bont's had to have had played an absolutely more excellent game to have had a better game than Libba/Richards/Naughton/Darcy

Whereas Daicos hasn't had to have played as such a good game because it's likely that the likes of Moore, Quaynor Maynard, Howe (who are all stronger than the Dogs) were the ones that contributed to wins, prevented opposition forwards and mids from having a good BOG games, but don't poll themselves, or if they do not above Daicos, because it's very hard to assess the contribution to winning by defenders but nonetheless they're responsible, but the votes go to Daicos.

Round 20, 2025: Dogs beat Essendon by 93 points. Naughton 7 goals, Darcy 6 goals, 10 and 7 coaches votes each. Bont 7 coaches votes with 20 kicks, 2 goals and 14 contested possessions and being higher ranked than both Darcy and Naughton on player ratings points.

Round 17, 2025: Collingwood beat Carlton by 59 points. Daicos 10 coaches votes from 22 kicks, but 8 votes to Moore and 5 votes to Cameron. ie Collingwood didn't win through depth of midfield, they won through defence and ruck as much.

Did Daicos really have a 3 better coaches vote game than Bontempelli? You would have us believe that he did.

You could have swapped Daicos and Bont's teams for the last three years, and I'm very confident, even if both players played as well, that Bont's coaches votes increases and Daicos' decreases.

Very well articulated again, but to be honest this has been put forward by many different posters and is always mocked/scoffed at by the usual suspects. "But Collingwood have performed so much better, so does this mean Daicos is singlehandedly causing this?".

The midfield partners - for both Bont and Daicos - over the past few years and the seasons/vote tallies they had, it's all been presented to Pies supporters. Of course it is a strong factor in the game by game voting systems. A raw vote average by itself is not a bulletproof case for a stronger player. Everything has it's context.

There's no hiding from raw statistics and any algorithm that assesses them to rank output though. There's no hiding from total accolades won and tallied. Over the past 3 years those 2 areas are on Bontempelli's side, while Daicos has vote averages on his. Bont has the leadership credentials and less weaknesses. Daicos is more prolific at winning uncontested ball.

You can argue the case of either but Bontempelli has been the more complete player, with stronger output in totality.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Jagga Smith is a lock.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Very well articulated again, but to be honest this has been put forward by many different posters and is always mocked/scoffed at by the usual suspects. "But Collingwood have performed so much better, so does this mean Daicos is singlehandedly causing this?".

The midfield partners - for both Bont and Daicos - over the past few years and the seasons/vote tallies they had, it's all been presented to Pies supporters. Of course it is a strong factor in the game by game voting systems. A raw vote average by itself is not a bulletproof case for a stronger player. Everything has it's context.

There's no hiding from raw statistics and any algorithm that assesses them to rank output though. There's no hiding from total accolades won and tallied. Over the past 3 years those 2 areas are on Bontempelli's side, while Daicos has vote averages on his. Bont has the leadership credentials and less weaknesses. Daicos is more prolific at winning uncontested ball.

You can argue the case of either but Bontempelli has been the more complete player, with stronger output in totality.

I think it should be without question that Bontempelli has been generally consistently the league's best player since 2021, and yet raised his level the last 2 years, but that just hasn't been reflected in voting systems because of team balance.

Obviously, every game has to have a BOG but the quality of that exact game across all 214 games in a season differ and naturally vary quite wildly. Of the 5-7-odd BOG games a season that Bont has played they're nearly always in the best 50 or so games played by any BOG game by any player for the season. Daicos has otherwise had games that have gotten him votes but nonetheless closer to rank 150 or 200 or 214 of those games.

 

[Fadge]

But you're missing the point that Bont is the better statistical player because he is the better player because he plays football better,.

But Bont has better teammates that steal votes from him because the Dogs have are more top heavy (ie they win games because their 1st-10th best on the park are talented, and the 11th-22th suck). They also have weak defence and games are won by the Dogs' midfield and forward line (with defenders harmed in all voting systems)

On the other hand, Collingwood win games where Daicos plays well, but the game was won by Collingwood's defenders who nontheless don't get votes, or otherwise their 11th-22th best players collectively playing well, without the top-heavy players competing with Nick Daicos to get votes.

There are literally circumstances in which Bont plays well for fewer coaches votes because he had an excellent game that would be BOG in most matches, but the Dogs had a player that played such an exceptional game they were BOG.

Or that Bont just was able to raise to another level to beat another excellent player, while Daicos didn't have to to still be the best midfielder in the game, and be BOG, but a 'lower' best on ground as Pies won through defenders and role players (who don't poll anyway).

Games with 9-10 coaches votes 2023-: Daicos 15, Bont 20
Average Player Ratings Points in those games: Daicos 20.1, Bont 24.9

Bont's average BOG game is clearly of a much higher standard than Daicos' BOG game, because that makes sense, because Bont's had to have had played an absolutely more excellent game to have had a better game than Libba/Richards/Naughton/Darcy

Whereas Daicos hasn't had to have played as such a good game because it's likely that the likes of Moore, Quaynor Maynard, Howe (who are all stronger than the Dogs) were the ones that contributed to wins, prevented opposition forwards and mids from having a good BOG games, but don't poll themselves, or if they do not above Daicos, because it's very hard to assess the contribution to winning by defenders but nonetheless they're responsible, but the votes go to Daicos.

Round 20, 2025: Dogs beat Essendon by 93 points. Naughton 7 goals, Darcy 6 goals, 10 and 7 coaches votes each. Bont 7 coaches votes with 20 kicks, 2 goals and 14 contested possessions and being higher ranked than both Darcy and Naughton on player ratings points.

Round 17, 2025: Collingwood beat Carlton by 59 points. Daicos 10 coaches votes from 22 kicks, but 8 votes to Moore and 5 votes to Cameron. ie Collingwood didn't win through depth of midfield, they won through defence and ruck as much.

Did Daicos really have a 3 better coaches vote game than Bontempelli? You would have us believe that he did.

You could have swapped Daicos and Bont's teams for the last three years, and I'm very confident, even if both players played as well, that Bont's coaches votes increases and Daicos' decreases.

Are you familiar with the term 'swings and roundabouts'?

Oh boy.

But you went to a lot of trouble in an attempt to explain an overly simplistic example.

Elephant stamp for you.

 

[Fadge]

A raw vote average by itself is not a bulletproof case for a stronger player.

There's no hiding from total accolades won and tallied.

'Votes are not important, unless of course they lead to winning an award and it fits a specific narrative...'

'Because if Player A comes 2nd, and Player B comes 15th, it doesn't tell us anything...'

You really are quite brilliant, MR Meow.

 

[Fadge]

I think it should be without question that Bontempelli has been generally consistently the league's best player since 2021, and yet raised his level the last 2 years, but that just hasn't been reflected in voting systems because of team balance.

Obviously, every game has to have a BOG but the quality of that exact game across all 214 games in a season differ and naturally vary quite wildly. Of the 5-7-odd BOG games a season that Bont has played they're nearly always in the best 50 or so games played by any BOG game by any player for the season. Daicos has otherwise had games that have gotten him votes but nonetheless closer to rank 150 or 200 or 214 of those games.

Yep, of course.

Despite Daicos playing in more winning teams than Bont, and therefore higher quality games.

Such a ridiculous position you are presenting.

 

[Mr Meow]

'Votes are not important, unless of course they lead to winning an award and it fits a specific narrative...'

'Because if Player A comes 2nd, and Player B comes 15th, it doesn't tell us anything...'

You really are quite brilliant, MR Meow.

Adults are speaking. I hope you don't mind.

 

[ReturningHawk]

I see that some people are using this thread to discuss the 2026 brownlow medal. Please desist, your posts will be deleted. Only discussion relating to Nick Daicos being the best player of all time will be allowed.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yep, of course.

Despite Daicos playing in more winning teams than Bont, and therefore higher quality games.

Such a ridiculous position you are presenting.

But the Dogs have been the far better team by winning games by bigger margins and losing games by narrower margins.

Pies may have won a few more games with Daicos but all the scored 813 more points than their opponents in 70 games. Dogs have scored 1,243 more points than their opponents in 65 games with Bont.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Go Caleb Serong

3

Caleb Serong

Age

25

Ht

180cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.6

5star

CL

2.6

4star

D

13.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

6.0

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.6

4star

CL

2.6

4star

D

13.0

4star

K

7.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.6

5star

CL

2.6

5star

- he always polls well, never gets injured and is probably the best player on a stacked Freo team that will win 16+ games again.

If they get off to a big start and the media get onboard he could be a big chance.

...or just Daicos obviously.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

But the Dogs have been the far better team by winning games by bigger margins and losing games by narrower margins.

Pies may have won a few more games with Daicos but all the scored 813 more points than their opponents in 70 games. Dogs have scored 1,243 more points than their opponents in 65 games with Bont.

Wtf...

 

[Fadge]

Wtf...

Just another example of the twisted logic required to support the narrative Player A has been better than Player B over 3 seasons, despite Player A having received 15% fewer Coaches votes, 35% fewer Brownlow votes, and having played fewer finals with inferior performances in those finals.