Training 2026 Preseason Thread

[Running_Lifter86]

"The Demons won a clearance 53.5 per cent of the time Rivers attended a centre bounce last year – which ranked as the best percentage of the top 125 attendees in the AFL."

A new dawn: What Dees' midfield could look like in 2026

No Christian Petracca or Clayton Oliver, and with Jack Viney sidelined, the Dees' midfield is set to look different in 2026

www.afl.com.au

This is why Oliver should of been traded at the end of 2024, we needed a new mix in the midfield. Oliver can't play anywhere else but midfield and we all know the off field issues.....hindsight is great but they dropped the ball on this.

For mine it is one of the reasons Trac moved on as well, and why he was frustrated in 2025, his midfield minutes were reduced to let others get some midfield time, which i am not against but it shouldn't of been at the expense of Trac, it only was because he could play forward.

I wouldn't have been happy to let Viney walk to north, but i could mount the same argument as i did for as to why we should have traded Oliver earlier than we did.

 

[danster168]

Funnily enough mate, some people like to use stats as a reference, rather than just 'well my eyes tell me... Because some people, not you of course, have a bias in how they watch certain things or certain players.

Wheelo ratings has all these stats if you want to look them up.

Interestingly, Windsor was well above TMac for kick retention in 2024. It's almost as if you're missing the whole point as to the context behind WHY his kicking fell off a cliff in 2025.

If you care, you may want to look into the last 3 games of the year, where Windsor was one of our best for goal assists, score assists and kick retention. Wonder what was different about those games? It's a mystery....

Also, for reference, across the entire league the average kick retention for defenders (who aren't key defenders) is 1.01, the average for mids is -0.5. Not exactly a huge backing for your "half back is so easy" argument.

Yeh, I've looked up wheelo ratings. I can't find kick retention there. Only disposal retention. and kicking efficiency.

I'm genuinely not understanding your point. In Windsors last 3 games he averaged his standard 15 touches a game. did he play midfield or something? Goal assists and score assists over a minuscule 3 game sample size can be completely ignored as we smashed west coast by 80.

I'm not saying Windsor is a poor kick. he's just not a good kick. He's sound. But if you look at kicking %'s. it always favours defenders because of the uncontested chip chip stuff. I admit Windsor is more of a running type so I give him some more leeway. And in terms of easy, I'm referring to finding the footy. Ease of position isn't related to kicking retention.

 

[Lord Nev]

Yeh, I've looked up wheelo ratings. I can't find kick retention there. Only disposal retention. and kicking efficiency.

Retention rating is just kicking.

Just to make sure. Go here: https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats.html?comp=afl&season=2025

Click "Select Statistical Categories" and then in the Disposal Efficiency section you'll see the retention stats.

I'm genuinely not understanding your point. In Windsors last 3 games he averaged his standard 15 touches a game. did he play midfield or something? Goal assists and score assists over a minuscule 3 game sample size can be completely ignored as we smashed west coast by 80.

Yes, Windsor played midfield in the last 3 games, and coincidentally his kick retention (and other important kicking/disposal stats) all of a sudden massively improved. That's the point here mate.

But if you look at kicking %'s. it always favours defenders because of the uncontested chip chip stuff.

Ease of position isn't related to kicking retention.

This is a contradiction, so I'm not sure what you're point is?

As pointed out already, the AFL average retention rate difference between mids and defenders is minuscule. I'm not sure the whole 'half backs get all easy kicks' argument 100% stacks up based on the data.

 

[Lord Nev]

This is why Oliver should of been traded at the end of 2024, we needed a new mix in the midfield. Oliver can't play anywhere else but midfield and we all know the off field issues.....hindsight is great but they dropped the ball on this.

For mine it is one of the reasons Trac moved on as well, and why he was frustrated in 2025, his midfield minutes were reduced to let others get some midfield time, which i am not against but it shouldn't of been at the expense of Trac, it only was because he could play forward.

I wouldn't have been happy to let Viney walk to north, but i could mount the same argument as i did for as to why we should have traded Oliver earlier than we did.

Don't agree on Trac in this.

As per recent article, he was a panic merchant with ball in hand.

Christian Petracca has become a ‘pump-and-dump merchant’ who uses surge kicking.

That’s why his total time with ball in hand is less than 35 seconds per game – ranking outside of the AFL’s top 200 players.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/the-ballinhand-stat-that-separates-the-best-from-just-your-regular-afl-footballer/news-story/b092e1a4d35c5081e1a9c93113a117cc?amp

 

[Running_Lifter86]

Don't agree on Trac in this.

As per recent article, he was a panic merchant with ball in hand.

Christian Petracca has become a ‘pump-and-dump merchant’ who uses surge kicking.

That’s why his total time with ball in hand is less than 35 seconds per game – ranking outside of the AFL’s top 200 players.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/the-ballinhand-stat-that-separates-the-best-from-just-your-regular-afl-footballer/news-story/b092e1a4d35c5081e1a9c93113a117cc?amp

As i said, one of the reasons. His kicking was tripe along with Oliver and Viney, but the decision to play him forward a lot in 2025 squeezed him out, but i have no doubt the injury and post handling didn't help and given the suns rise and dees demise timing was good for both parties for him to leave and unlike Oliver we timed the trac trade right and got overs for him.

 

[danster168]

Retention rating is just kicking.

Just to make sure. Go here: https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats.html?comp=afl&season=2025

Click "Select Statistical Categories" and then in the Disposal Efficiency section you'll see the retention stats.


Yes, Windsor played midfield in the last 3 games, and coincidentally his kick retention (and other important kicking/disposal stats) all of a sudden massively improved. That's the point here mate.




This is a contradiction, so I'm not sure what you're point is?

As pointed out already, the AFL average retention rate difference between mids and defenders is minuscule. I'm not sure the whole 'half backs get all easy kicks' argument 100% stacks up based on the data.

Maybe we should DM this lol

Windsor last 3 games were 21 touches against the Dogs, 16 touches against a VFL calibre team, and subbed out of a game due to lack of impact for 9 touches. I'd imagine that most of his stats went up because the dees have one of their biggest scores I na decade against the Eagles?

In terms of kicking efficiency, that always favours backs. but maybe you use kicking retention. In terms of kicking efficiency I'd imagine our worst kicks were probably our inside mids and our best kicks were basically everyone that played in the back half.

The article/link below is why I really just don't look at stats when it comes to kicking rating/efficiency.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2025/05/13/champion-data-reveals-the-best-and-worst-kicks-in-the-afl

If anyone is playing half back to me, they should be getting minimum 22 or 23 touches a game. Windsor isn't your typical sweeper but I'd like to see him get more of the footy.

 

[MarcMaverick]

As much as I love the fact that we had to change and adapt, both from a personnel and gameplay perspective, what sticks in my craw is that it was done through kicking and screaming and not being more proactive about it.

 

[Lord Nev]

Maybe we should DM this lol

Windsor last 3 games were 21 touches against the Dogs, 16 touches against a VFL calibre team, and subbed out of a game due to lack of impact for 9 touches. I'd imagine that most of his stats went up because the dees have one of their biggest scores I na decade against the Eagles?

In terms of kicking efficiency, that always favours backs. but maybe you use kicking retention. In terms of kicking efficiency I'd imagine our worst kicks were probably our inside mids and our best kicks were basically everyone that played in the back half.

The article/link below is why I really just don't look at stats when it comes to kicking rating/efficiency.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2025/05/13/champion-data-reveals-the-best-and-worst-kicks-in-the-afl

If anyone is playing half back to me, they should be getting minimum 22 or 23 touches a game. Windsor isn't your typical sweeper but I'd like to see him get more of the footy.

Yeah we probably should. But also, it's just one of those ones we're not going to agree on tbh.

Big difference between the 'efficiency' and 'retention' stats though. All the disposal efficiency stats are useless IMO. The criteria is really poor (in some cases you can turn it over but it be an 'effective disposal') and they have no context. I love the kick rating stat, but unfortunately it's not publicly available so retention is the closest we can get.

 

[Lord Nev]

If anyone is playing half back to me, they should be getting minimum 22 or 23 touches a game. Windsor isn't your typical sweeper but I'd like to see him get more of the footy.

Average disposals per game for 'general defenders' (so not including key defenders) is 15 disposals per game.

 

[danster168]

Average disposals per game for 'general defenders' (so not including key defenders) is 15 disposals per game.

yeah he's not bad. he was a top 10 pick so I'd very much like to see him get more of the footy. He's not the sort of defender that screams lockdown defender so if he's not defending he should be getting his hands on the footy more. hopefully this year.

 

[danster168]

Hey, so even though the intraclub is being streamed, is it still open to the public to watch or not?

 

[Lord Nev]

yeah he's not bad. he was a top 10 pick so I'd very much like to see him get more of the footy. He's not the sort of defender that screams lockdown defender so if he's not defending he should be getting his hands on the footy more. hopefully this year.

Absolutely not a defender, and that's kinda the crux of my point in highlighting the drop off in the kicking stats between wing and mid compared to half back. Was telling that it took Goodwin so long to make the move. Classic Goody stuff really.

King is apparently pretty bullish on Windsor so hopefully we see that this year. I personally think we will.

 

[Lord Nev]

Hey, so even though the intraclub is being streamed, is it still open to the public to watch or not?

Not listed as an open session on the website, so I probably wouldn't make a special trip out there without ringing them.

Training Times | Melbourne Football Club

Check out when Melbourne's AFL and AFLW sides are hosting open training sessions

www.melbournefc.com.au

 

[Bluelegs]

Every time Nev gets into a long argument on here I learn about new stats I've never heard of like Kick Pollution and Hand to Foot Rating.

 

[Lord Nev]

Every time Nev gets into a long argument about on here I learn about new stats I've never heard of like Kick Pollution and Hand to Foot Rating.

Adding this post to your 'Fugazi Rating' stat column on Wheelo now.

 

[Lord Nev]

Viney - Hopefully back round 8ish.
Culley - Back for the early rounds.
White - Wait and see.

Injury Update | Viney, Culley undergo surgery

GM of AFL Football Performance Alan Richardson has provided an update on a number of Demons

www.melbournefc.com.au

 

[stEdy]

Just watching Windsor he seems quite hit and miss with his kicking.

His bad kicks were absolute shanks that really stand out in your mind. I guess that's why his kicking, although not elite, seems to perform better in Nev's stats as your mind over-focuses on the terrible kicks.

He can also pull off some very good kicks. I'm thinking of his running goals (that one from 50 against Port to win the game in his 1st year and that goal in R1 against GWS last year). He also hit some really nice passes on the run against WCE (?) to Fritta twice on the lead which really stood out as our mids rarely do that. Also noting that we used him a bit as the designated kicker out of defense if Bowey wasn't involved - which shows the coaches rate his kicking and decision making pretty highly.

Still wait and see for me. His speed, agility and willingness to take the game on is a weapon regardless. Keen to see what kind of player he becomes with a license to attack and some midfield time.

 

[Demon Attack]

Maybe we should DM this lol

Windsor last 3 games were 21 touches against the Dogs, 16 touches against a VFL calibre team, and subbed out of a game due to lack of impact for 9 touches. I'd imagine that most of his stats went up because the dees have one of their biggest scores I na decade against the Eagles?

In terms of kicking efficiency, that always favours backs. but maybe you use kicking retention. In terms of kicking efficiency I'd imagine our worst kicks were probably our inside mids and our best kicks were basically everyone that played in the back half.

The article/link below is why I really just don't look at stats when it comes to kicking rating/efficiency.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2025/05/13/champion-data-reveals-the-best-and-worst-kicks-in-the-afl

If anyone is playing half back to me, they should be getting minimum 22 or 23 touches a game. Windsor isn't your typical sweeper but I'd like to see him get more of the footy.

He was subbed due injury.

 

[Bluelegs]

Viney - Hopefully back round 8ish.
Culley - Back for the early rounds.
White - Wait and see.

Injury Update | Viney, Culley undergo surgery

GM of AFL Football Performance Alan Richardson has provided an update on a number of Demons

www.melbournefc.com.au

Annoying we don't get a full list from the club.

 

[Lord Nev]

Annoying we don't get a full list from the club.

Probably easier to just list who's not injured.

 

[Bluelegs]

Probably easier to just list who's not injured.

I'd really like to just an idea of weeks until each player is back to full training. Cobbling together an injury list from fan training reports is a bit limited as there may be players who have adapted programs as a precaution or whatever, but would be right for selection if we were playing this week.

 

[Lampers]

I'd really like to just an idea of weeks until each player is back to full training. Cobbling together an injury list from fan training reports is a bit limited as there may be players who have adapted programs as a precaution or whatever, but would be right for selection if we were playing this week.

This I reckon is spot on. No point pushing limits now so conservative management is the sensible thing if the players already have a fitness base.

In the season proper they’d be jabbing guys up left right and centre to play.

 

[TheBoss]

Windsor being "played out of position" is just Bigfooty spin.

Moving him to HBF was not a coaching experiment. He got moved because he was no longer a top-two winger at the club. It is just the natural result of drafting kids who play his role better than he does.

 

[Lord Nev]

Oh no, it's match sim and they've got hats on....

 

[Lampers]

A few players are out there that I wasn't expecting who have had niggles in recent times. Sharp and Laurie (don't get too excited!). Kentfield despite the recent facial injury is also playing as well as Jiath.

That would seem to validate the theory that the large number of players in quasi-rehab was more of a conservative management thing than a spate of serious injuries.