20th AFL Team

[Aussie in exile]

Alastair Clarkson has just said the NT should get the 20th team.

Pretty sure he has put little-to-no thought into it, but he's just pushing a 20th team to get the heat off North. And the NT just seems to be the default option.

Clarkson isn't on planet earth if he thinks that.
The last thing the AFL needs is another financial blackhole like GWS and the GCS are.

 

[Aussie in exile]

The official crowd at Manuka on April was 13,080 not 11,500 andwas the same a the the NRL match!

The Giants had 13,080 on Anzac Day NOT 11,500 and was the same as the NRL got to their last home match in Canberra so there is good potential to grow our game in the nations capital!
For starters Manuka needs better facilities and be upgraded to 20 - 25,000 same as the rectangular GIO stadium capacity.

That's a huge upgrade Willie and who would you expect to pay for it?
Also as well the Brumbies and Raiders want an upgrade at the stadium they play at and who's going to pay for that?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Which Victorian side do you think would agree to relocate here? North will not, the Bulldogs seem happy with Ballarat as their secondary market, and even financially struggling St Kilda did not renew their one game contract to play a home game in Cairns after their narrow loss there in 2022.

I'm not saying one would.

But you can't speak on behalf of all Canberrans when you say we'd rather the status quo over a relocation.

 

[Walshawk]

That's a huge upgrade Willie and who would you expect to pay for it?
Also as well the Brumbies and Raiders want an upgrade at the stadium they play at and who's going to pay for that?

Manuka is easily upgraded. You could rebuilt the whole eastern half, of just along the wing for starters. What the AFL wants the AFL gets.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I'm not saying one would.

But you can't speak on behalf of all Canberrans when you say we'd rather the status quo over a relocation.

And neither can you speak for all Canberrans when you say we’d rather have relocation over status quo

 

[Canberra Pear]

And neither can you speak for all Canberrans when you say we’d rather have relocation over status quo

I don't pretend to. The difference is our language.

I always (at least try to) use first-person as it's my personal view. I said "I'd take the relocation". Or if I'm speaking about the general vibe in Canberra, I still try to avoid absolutes "the majority of", "many Canberrans" etc.

Where as you have said "Canberra does not want North" or "Canberra isn't interested". I know I'm being pedantic (apologies), but these are still your personal views, but your language frames them as the collective views of Canberra.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Might be silly but update and upgrade Manuka Oval but please never block the sight of the house at the Winston Abraham end.

 

[weewilly]

That's a huge upgrade Willie and who would you expect to pay for it?
Also as well the Brumbies and Raiders want an upgrade at the stadium they play at and who's going to pay for that?

Obviously the Federal and ACT governments with maybe a smaller amount from the AFL and Cricket Australia as they would get the most benefit from an upgrade!

 

[MelbourneGWS]

I don't pretend to. The difference is our language.

I always (at least try to) use first-person as it's my personal view. I said "I'd take the relocation". Or if I'm speaking about the general vibe in Canberra, I still try to avoid absolutes "the majority of", "many Canberrans" etc.

Where as you have said "Canberra does not want North" or "Canberra isn't interested". I know I'm being pedantic (apologies), but these are still your personal views, but your language frames them as the collective views of Canberra.

Fair point. I believe that the majority of Canberrans are happy with the status quo arrangement with the Giants as Canberra’s AFL team. Both the Giants matches have been sold out, and in an election year, there does not seem to be any move by the main parties for a full time AFL team in Canberra.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Obviously the Federal and ACT governments with maybe a smaller amount from the AFL and Cricket Australia as they would get the most benefit from an upgrade!

The direction the ACT Government is pushing is to mirror Tasmania, with a new stadium and an upgraded stadium, with Manuka mirroring the Launceston upgrade.

"As part of our desire to work with the Commonwealth through the National Capital Investment Framework, there'd be two projects in the stadium space," Barr said.

"[That would mirror] what happened in Tasmania where the Commonwealth invested both in the Hobart new facility and in improving the Launceston one.

"We would be asking for a co-investment in the new rectangular stadium and a co-investment in partnership with the territory government at Manuka Oval."

 

[Canberra Pear]

Fair point. I believe that the majority of Canberrans are happy with the status quo arrangement with the Giants as Canberra’s AFL team. Both the Giants matches have been sold out, and in an election year, there does not seem to be any move by the main parties for a full time AFL team in Canberra.

The majority of Canberrans? Looking at any relevant comment section, I'd say you'd be wrong. Any time there's any reference to large spending, or funding Canberra sports, there's usually always negative comments regarding the Giants relationship.

The majority of AFL fans in Canberra? I'd say it'd be fair to say the majority might be content with the status quo. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer another option if presented with one. Give them the option for a full-time team and I'd say the majority of them would ditch the Giants in a heartbeat.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

That's a huge upgrade Willie and who would you expect to pay for it?
Also as well the Brumbies and Raiders want an upgrade at the stadium they play at and who's going to pay for that?

Exactly. The ACT government is already under financial pressure due to the Trams. Also, besides the usual suspects who want money spent on education, health, roads etc rather than sports, the rugby codes also want a new rectangular stadium. Money for sports seem to be tight, with the Barr government in an election year only saving our female soccer team Canberra United from folding at the very last stages - and that too by offering $200,000 the day before the Liberals were going to make an announcement to offer a rescue package if elected.

 

[MelbourneGWS]

The majority of Canberrans? Looking at any relevant comment section, I'd say you'd be wrong. Any time there's any reference to large spending, or funding Canberra sports, there's usually always negative comments regarding the Giants relationship.

The majority of AFL fans in Canberra? I'd say it'd be fair to say the majority might be content with the status quo. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer another option if presented with one. Give them the option for a full-time team and I'd say the majority of them would ditch the Giants in a heartbeat.

Whilst I respect (really!) your advocacy and optimism for a full time Canberra AFL team, I think the chances of that are slim due to the lack of public lobbying by our Government, and the lack of any grassroots campaign for this. This is in contrast to the (albeit twice unsuccessful) campaign for a Canberra A league men’s soccer team that had support (including financial commitments) from many local soccer fans, and key stakeholders in the administration.

 

[Bjo187]

Whilst I respect (really!) your advocacy and optimism for a full time Canberra AFL team, I think the chances of that are slim due to the lack of public lobbying by our Government, and the lack of any grassroots campaign for this. This is in contrast to the (albeit twice unsuccessful) campaign for a Canberra A league men’s soccer team that had support (including financial commitments) from many local soccer fans, and key stakeholders in the administration.

Any lobbying would be behind closed doors surely, otherwise it would ruin the gws deal and crowds would fall off a cliff (like in Hobart).

 

[Aussie in exile]

Manuka is easily upgraded. You could rebuilt the whole eastern half, of just along the wing for starters. What the AFL wants the AFL gets.

How much money do you think it would cost?

 

[Canberra Pear]

How much money do you think it would cost?

The unfulfilled phases of the Manuka masterplan would have cost $45.5m in 2013. About $59m in 2023 dollars.

We've also had other upgrades in the meantime. The media centre, the screen, seat coverings.

So maybe 10-15% of the Hobart stadium?

 

[Walshawk]

How much money do you think it would cost?

If you rebuilt the whole eastern side, with 12k seats to get the capacity over 20k, reckon around $150m for a basic build. $10k per seat would be the absolute minimum and they would want to add some more corporate as well.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Whilst I respect (really!) your advocacy and optimism for a full time Canberra AFL team, I think the chances of that are slim due to the lack of public lobbying by our Government, and the lack of any grassroots campaign for this. This is in contrast to the (albeit twice unsuccessful) campaign for a Canberra A league men’s soccer team that had support (including financial commitments) from many local soccer fans, and key stakeholders in the administration.

Pretty much what Bjo said. Both the ACT Government and AFL Canberra are so publicly linked with the Giants. Any public crapping on that deal would risk what's happening to North in Hobart, without even being sure of securing a team.

Whereas we haven't had an A-League men's match since 2017. Not hurting any relationship there with publicly lobbying for a team.

 

[Aussie in exile]

If you rebuilt the whole eastern side, with 12k seats to get the capacity over 20k, reckon around $150m for a basic build. $10k per seat would be the absolute minimum and they would want to add some more corporate as well.

Do the ACT government have that sort of money in their bank account for a sports stadium rebuild?
Am i right in thinking that the Brummies and Raiders are after a new stadium or a stadium rebuild?

 

[weewilly]

Do the ACT government have that sort of money in their bank account for a sports stadium rebuild?
Am i right in thinking that the Brummies and Raiders are after a new stadium or a stadium rebuild?

The Feds could also put in some money as it is their home city and the ACT govt as it is is no more than a large city council!

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Do the ACT government have that sort of money in their bank account for a sports stadium rebuild?
Am i right in thinking that the Brummies and Raiders are after a new stadium or a stadium rebuild?

Barr’s Trams and the planned $3 billion Tram extension to Woden has put severe pressure on our Territory finances. Indeed the Liberals have stated that they will scrap the Tram extension if elected. Even if there was $ for stadiums, Barr’s priority seems to be an upgrade of the Bruce stadium and he has asked Albanese for 50/50 Federal funding for a 30,000 Bruce stadium. The Rugby codes however want a new rectangular stadium built near the city, and the independent Senator David Pocock also seems to be in favour of this. The ACT Libs want a new stadium built and have also asked the Commonwealth Government for $ for a new stadium, but specifically requested that federal funding not be tied to Barr’s Bruce Stadium upgrade - given Katy Gallagher is the Commonwealth Finance Minister (and Barr’s immediate predecessor as Chief Minister), the Albanese Government is far more likely to acquiesce to Barr’s request.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

A 20th team does not add an extra game every week. Just 11/12 more games. If it placed in a market with similar appeal to GWS or GC, it might actually cost the game money. Another timeslot and more games overlapping is not what the broadcasters want. Reckon we will sit at 19 for quite a while.

However, it can add an extire extra round, by virtue of that fact that an odd number of teams cannot all play an (equal) odd number of games, as it doesn't result in a whole number of games. 19 teams playing 23 games each makes 218.5 games (since each game features two teams). So they'd instead play 22 games each, which makes 209 games. Whereas with 20 teams, they can play 23 games each for a total of 230 games. Another weekend of high ratings might be something broadcasters want.

 

[speedpeck23]

Clarkson isn't on planet earth if he thinks that.
The last thing the AFL needs is another financial blackhole like GWS and the GCS are.

Wow. Be careful with your approach here. The well heeled of Canberra getting their own AFL club ahead of the people of the NT is problematic when the AFL is so massively invested in helping First Nations people. Suddenly the Dreamtime at the G won't look so convincing.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Wow. Be careful with your approach here. The well heeled of Canberra getting their own AFL club ahead of the people of the NT is problematic when the AFL is so massively invested in helping First Nations people. Suddenly the Dreamtime at the G won't look so convincing.

It's not problematic, it's just more viable.

The team in the NT will be a money pit. Which will then divert money away from community resources.

 

[Walshawk]

Wow. Be careful with your approach here. The well heeled of Canberra getting their own AFL club ahead of the people of the NT is problematic when the AFL is so massively invested in helping First Nations people. Suddenly the Dreamtime at the G won't look so convincing.

Darwin is largely a non-Aboriginal town. Less than 10% (13k)identify as such. Almost as many indigenous people in Canberra (8k).

There are two myths often perpetuated about Darwin.
1. That it is full of Aboriginal people
2. That it is as AFL mad as Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide or Tassie. It isn’t. AFL is number 1, but NRL is big there. The NT has the highest participation rate for RL (as it also does for AFL). NRL games draw comparable crowds and ratings as AFL.