Melbourne had the best list according to Champion Data heading into the 2019 season...finished 17th.
3 reasons why we'll rebound in 2022
- Thread starter Damo80
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Ah Champion Data. More like desisted after 3 games in 7 years data. Absolute s**t
Yes Caddy may work, but I reckon his papers are stamped. Reckon Cumberland will force his way into the side early next year. Not afraid to go for his marks and very good once the ball hits the deck. Reckon he will really surprise, has all the attributes.
Yes I forgot about Cumberland and Raithsmith showed plenty of form as a midsized forward in the latter part of the year too.
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- Aug 13, 2017
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1 reason, the draft , only took Jackson and pickett 2 years to become guns
We nail the draft with our great hand boy oh boy look out.
We nail the draft with our great hand boy oh boy look out.
RichLeMonde
Club Legend
We won premierships based on extremely astute recruiting and player development that was tailored to the existing rules. We all know we developed an incredible backline system, and produced our own scores mainly by creating turnovers through pressure, particularly as teams brought the ball from their back half through the middle of the ground, or during the possession that followed them winning a clearance.
But after watching the two prelims, I think we're miles off it. Our old systems don't work (although of course there's still a role for manic pressure), and our new 'systems' don't either. Some of best players were really tailored to the old systems. Vlaustin has been an outstanding reader of the football and decision maker, with elite intercept skills, and has defended big and small, relying on nous rather than pure athleticism. But he is significantly less well suited to the new rules IMO, or at least he can't do what he used to when our midfield is getting consistently smashed. At the other end, guys like Castagna and Rioli have been crucial parts of our gameplan, but just don't add as much value under the new rule-set.
Clearances have never been our strength, and they're now more important than ever, as is having A-graders packed between the 2 arcs. Compared to the Dogs, Melbourne, Port, and even Geelong, we have a lot of C-graders running between the arcs, with quite a few who would struggle to get picked in many sides in the top 8. Our midfield and centreline is IMO nowhere near one of the best 8 in the competition.
So to me, the first thing the club needs to do is realistically appraise where it's at, rather than write off 2020 as an anomaly.
Having said all of that, Dusty is obviously a generational talent, and there are many individual pieces who are still incredibly hard to come by, such as key backs like Balta and Grimes, key forwards like Jack and Lynch, and guys who at their best are true A-graders, like Prestia, Bolton, Short and Edwards, with guys like Baker and Lambert not far behind.
If we are to have one more crack we need to implement a lot of things incredibly quickly and basically play a different brand of football to that which won us three flags, all in the space of one off-season.
We need to do a lot: find an elite team of assistant coaches; choose well in the draft; be aggressive at the trade table. Topping up like Geelong have done is fraught. We showed a better way when we brought in Prestia in his prime. YOu can't get something for nothing, though. We should consider trading quality youth, like Chol, to bring quality players, in their prime, to bolster our midfield stocks.
I feel like if we don't get this right, we could go backwards fast. Get it right, and have a bit of luck, and we could be knocking on the door of the top 4. I think Dimma's mindset and ability to appraise where we're at will have a fair bit to do with the outcome.
But after watching the two prelims, I think we're miles off it. Our old systems don't work (although of course there's still a role for manic pressure), and our new 'systems' don't either. Some of best players were really tailored to the old systems. Vlaustin has been an outstanding reader of the football and decision maker, with elite intercept skills, and has defended big and small, relying on nous rather than pure athleticism. But he is significantly less well suited to the new rules IMO, or at least he can't do what he used to when our midfield is getting consistently smashed. At the other end, guys like Castagna and Rioli have been crucial parts of our gameplan, but just don't add as much value under the new rule-set.
Clearances have never been our strength, and they're now more important than ever, as is having A-graders packed between the 2 arcs. Compared to the Dogs, Melbourne, Port, and even Geelong, we have a lot of C-graders running between the arcs, with quite a few who would struggle to get picked in many sides in the top 8. Our midfield and centreline is IMO nowhere near one of the best 8 in the competition.
So to me, the first thing the club needs to do is realistically appraise where it's at, rather than write off 2020 as an anomaly.
Having said all of that, Dusty is obviously a generational talent, and there are many individual pieces who are still incredibly hard to come by, such as key backs like Balta and Grimes, key forwards like Jack and Lynch, and guys who at their best are true A-graders, like Prestia, Bolton, Short and Edwards, with guys like Baker and Lambert not far behind.
If we are to have one more crack we need to implement a lot of things incredibly quickly and basically play a different brand of football to that which won us three flags, all in the space of one off-season.
We need to do a lot: find an elite team of assistant coaches; choose well in the draft; be aggressive at the trade table. Topping up like Geelong have done is fraught. We showed a better way when we brought in Prestia in his prime. YOu can't get something for nothing, though. We should consider trading quality youth, like Chol, to bring quality players, in their prime, to bolster our midfield stocks.
I feel like if we don't get this right, we could go backwards fast. Get it right, and have a bit of luck, and we could be knocking on the door of the top 4. I think Dimma's mindset and ability to appraise where we're at will have a fair bit to do with the outcome.
Our midfield needs more grunt, I don't think any one can argue with that but in terms of our talent level and skills, I do not believe 'we're miles off it' as some may suggest.
The defensive strategy that teams such as Melbourne and Bulldogs are employing this year, is the old fashioned flood. They are dropping back almost their whole midfield into their D50 when the opposition reaches the center square or beyond. So instead of turning the ball over through the corridor, they are doing it deep in their backline and springboarding from there.
For us, perhaps we can use a bit of this strategy but I still think we just need to tweak our zone through the corridor. We struggled to stop teams ball movement through the middle due to the new rule. Pressuring the ball carrier when they swing around the mark and play on is crucial to blunting this tactic. It means playing an extra man just off to the inside of the player but this would force their kicks high and stop spear passes into our backline too.
Combine both tactics and we regain our turnover/pressure game and top 4 here we come!
The defensive strategy that teams such as Melbourne and Bulldogs are employing this year, is the old fashioned flood. They are dropping back almost their whole midfield into their D50 when the opposition reaches the center square or beyond. So instead of turning the ball over through the corridor, they are doing it deep in their backline and springboarding from there.
For us, perhaps we can use a bit of this strategy but I still think we just need to tweak our zone through the corridor. We struggled to stop teams ball movement through the middle due to the new rule. Pressuring the ball carrier when they swing around the mark and play on is crucial to blunting this tactic. It means playing an extra man just off to the inside of the player but this would force their kicks high and stop spear passes into our backline too.
Combine both tactics and we regain our turnover/pressure game and top 4 here we come!
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- May 23, 2017
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If we're to challenge for a flag in 2022 and 2023:
We need our starting midfield in 2022 to be Nank, RCD, Bolton and Prestia. Second string needs to be CCJ, Dusty, Graham, Baker.
No room in there anymore for Cotch, Shedda, Ross, Lambo, Pickett. Most too old, Ross not good enough.
I really worry for Cotch and Shedda. Might end up fighting for a spot on the half-forward line. Sad way to finish great careers.
We need our starting midfield in 2022 to be Nank, RCD, Bolton and Prestia. Second string needs to be CCJ, Dusty, Graham, Baker.
No room in there anymore for Cotch, Shedda, Ross, Lambo, Pickett. Most too old, Ross not good enough.
I really worry for Cotch and Shedda. Might end up fighting for a spot on the half-forward line. Sad way to finish great careers.
I actually think I'd prefer a starting midfield of Nank/Soldo, Prestia, Edwards/Cotch and Bolton/Dusty.
Nank rotating with Soldo (center, forward, bench).
Prestia needs to run out a game for us to really be in contention. He is a two way runner so only needs time on the bench. If he's injured, RCD would take his spot.
Edwards/Cotch are still a class above. Edwards is still the player the coaches trust to win the crucial clearance when we need it. Cotchin, is slowing down but he makes a massive difference as a defensive midfielder. I would have Edwards in the center and have him rotate with Cotch in the forwardline where both can be creative and win the ball at ground level.
Bolton/Dusty are our X-Factor is the middle and forward. If we are flying, Dusty should be spending most of his time forward but last season we needed him in the middle of the ground to fill holes.
That's just my thoughts but I don't think you can write off proven stars too early. Share the load, rest and rotate them but don't put them to pasture yet.
- May 23, 2017
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Fair call. I'm pretty concerned about Cotch and Edwards going on one year too long, but agree that this would have been our best midfield in 2021 if all players were fully fit.
No need to worry about Edwards, he was just banged up this year, has plenty left in him
- Feb 11, 2016
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You really want your damaging match winners to be in the prime of their careers to have a shot at a flag imo. Say 25-30 ideally. Let's not be like some other highly successful clubs and hold out for too long and not see the signs. Fact is that our big names aren't in their prime. I might just be biased after having a peruse at melbourne and bulldogs lists but i'm starting to think a mini rebuild is the way to go. As in hit the draft hard this year and next (and maybe even the one after) and give the over 30s slightly altered roles where they are more about supporting younger players rather than winning off their own shoulders. A little quickie. Fact is we've had a dream half decade and are in a position to do a fairly quick rebuild.
Tricky thing is that with all the injuries we won't really know whether we are over the hill until well into next season. I wonder what call the club will make.
Tricky thing is that with all the injuries we won't really know whether we are over the hill until well into next season. I wonder what call the club will make.
I think the club has already made the call that we'll head to the draft.
Everyone has to remember that the list managers and recruiters are all over our list structure and succession plans have been in place for quite a while. Matt Clarke alluded to this in his last interview when he spoke about looking at how Hawthorn and Geelong have managed their list after a protracted time at the top and taking lessons from what they have done and what they haven't done.
Our list is so much healthier than both those teams.
RichLeMonde
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News today is that Chol is gone to GC for a 3rd rounder, and CCJ to North for not much, probably a second rounder at best.
With Jack on his last legs and Lynch not looking like a world-beater, these are very big losses, especially CCJ.
With Jack on his last legs and Lynch not looking like a world-beater, these are very big losses, especially CCJ.
- Apr 10, 2013
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we need to get RCD, Ross, HRS, Stack, Dow to 50 games...
So the bounce back may not be 2022, but 2023
So the bounce back may not be 2022, but 2023
You can only come up with three reasons Damo? Seriously chief you going to have to raise the bar lol
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Just the "big 3" that sprung to mind at the time!
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We just need one 25-28 year old gun midfielder
I hope not...just hope he's in the background developing slowly like a diamond in the rough...
had a Doggies support ask if we were F K'd for next year with CCJ & Chol going
I responded , not in top 22 , Soldo on the path back and would be better ruck support/backup than Chol or CCJ
plus have maybes in Ryan and Mate
I dont think he liked the response , he wanted me to break down and cry LOL
We'll be back
I responded , not in top 22 , Soldo on the path back and would be better ruck support/backup than Chol or CCJ
plus have maybes in Ryan and Mate
I dont think he liked the response , he wanted me to break down and cry LOL
We'll be back
I think the club let CJ and Chol go based on good news about soldos fitness and availability for next year. It'll be interesting to see if we go for Talia and 2 KPPs in the draft.
We need one midfielder from the draft to be ready to play. Day 1 2022.
Ryan can play. Just had a shocker on debut. Wet night, and got injured.
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