Abortion

[P.A.F.C]

As far as i'm concerned at this point it is just the potential for life. Wearing a condom or using other contraceptives also destroys the potential for life. Do we dissallow that too? Good desicion imo.

 

[mantis]

Surely if someone wanted an abortion, they can decide they want it well before 24 weeks. This bill is unsettling.

I doubt there would be many if any women that far gone, who would want an abortion, unless for medical reasons.

 

[Karl Pilkington]

As far as i'm concerned at this point it is just the potential for life. Wearing a condom or using other contraceptives also destroys the potential for life. Do we dissallow that too? Good desicion imo.

At 24 weeks?!?!

 

[fairdinkum]

At 24 weeks?!?!

Are you against abortions at 24 weeks (the thought of it), or against the legalisation of abortion at 24 weeks?

There is a massive difference between the two.

I personally am not comfortable with abortion beyond a couple of weeks, but am all for people having the right to abortion at 24 weeks and beyond.

Once you start saying 'Oh, but 24 weeks is too late for it to be legal...' you open up a gigantic can of worms.

 

[Dry Rot]

Are you against abortions at 24 weeks (the thought of it), or against the legalisation of abortion at 24 weeks?

There is a massive difference between the two.

I personally am not comfortable with abortion beyond a couple of weeks, but am all for people having the right to abortion at 24 weeks and beyond.

Once you start saying 'Oh, but 24 weeks is too late for it to be legal...' you open up a gigantic can of worms.

Agreed - indeed I'm fine about abortion up to the age of 3 years.

 

[evo]

Hoorah!!

 

[bit_pattern]

Evil prevailed today. Satan has got to the vic government and Bumby is the anti christ.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

 

[Karl Pilkington]

Are you against abortions at 24 weeks (the thought of it), or against the legalisation of abortion at 24 weeks?

There is a massive difference between the two.

I personally am not comfortable with abortion beyond a couple of weeks, but am all for people having the right to abortion at 24 weeks and beyond.

Once you start saying 'Oh, but 24 weeks is too late for it to be legal...' you open up a gigantic can of worms.

I'm saying that I don't think it should be legal to abort a child at 24 weeks. I think there is enough evidence that children can survive outside of the womb at 24 weeks, and that it is nothing short of murder.

I'm all for women having the choice regarding abortion - but I think any later than 16 weeks or so and you're just murdering babies.

 

[KevinCat07]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Troll.

 

[mantis]

Troll.

PKB.

 

[fairdinkum]

I'm saying that I don't think it should be legal to abort a child at 24 weeks. I think there is enough evidence that children can survive outside of the womb at 24 weeks, and that it is nothing short of murder.

I'm all for women having the choice regarding abortion - but I think any later than 16 weeks or so and you're just murdering babies.

So, in your opinion, it should be legal for a woman with a four-month old fetus in her womb to have an abortion, but even a day beyond that and the woman should be turned away from the abortion clinic? No options but the good old 'back-yard abortion'?

 

[Kid A]

I'm closer to the 'not having an abortion should be illegal' camp than the 'having an abortion should be illegal' camp.

 

[Midnight Vultures]

So, in your opinion, it should be legal for a woman with a four-month old fetus in her womb to have an abortion, but even a day beyond that and the woman should be turned away from the abortion clinic? No options but the good old 'back-yard abortion'?

So, in your opinion, a woman with a five month old fetus in her womb should be suddenly able to decide "hang on, I actually don't want this baby any more! Let's kill the little bastard!"

I'm not against abortion per se, but for god sake she should have made up her mind by then.

 

[Tassie Girl Jnr]

ABORTION IS MURDER!

 

[mantis]

ABORTION IS MURDER!

No it isn't, how old are you?

 

[fairdinkum]

So, in your opinion, a woman with a five month old fetus in her womb should be suddenly able to decide "hang on, I actually don't want this baby any more! Let's kill the little bastard!"

I'm not against abortion per se, but for god sake she should have made up her mind by then.

That argument is frighteningly similar to the Catholic argument.

The Catholic would say that she should have made her decision before she had sex, and should now be forced to carry the baby to full term, [or abort it herself if she is so inclined].

You (and many, many others) would say that she made her decision to keep the baby before four months (or whatever arbitrary length of time you deem appropriate) and she must now be made to carry it to full term [or abort it herself if she is so inclined].

Anybody with a modicum of common sense can see the problem with this.

 

[mantis]

Gawd, I will say again, that a woman that far gone, wouldn't want an abortion, except for liife threatening reasons.

 

[Midnight Vultures]

Anybody with a modicum of common sense can see the problem with this.

That's fairly obnoxious, we simply have differing views.

I don't see how making your mind up before a certain point (say, before the baby could have survived outside the womb) doesn't smack of common sense.

Isn't 24 weeks another "arbitrary point" anyway? Your argument is a moot point.

 

[Richo83]

So, in your opinion, a woman with a five month old fetus in her womb should be suddenly able to decide "hang on, I actually don't want this baby any more! Let's kill the little bastard!"

I'm not against abortion per se, but for god sake she should have made up her mind by then.

Of course. Who are you to decide when a mother should have made up her mind? There's a whole lot of issues with women and pregnancy, saying "oh she should have figured out as early as possible" is unrealistic. Anyway, I don't have any qualms with a woman aborting at 20 weeks.

 

[Midnight Vultures]

Gawd, I will say again, that a woman that far gone, wouldn't want an abortion, except for liife threatening reasons.

I would hope so.

 

[Midnight Vultures]

Of course. Who are you to decide when a mother should have made up her mind? There's a whole lot of issues with women and pregnancy, saying "oh she should have figured out as early as possible" is unrealistic. Anyway, I don't have any qualms with a woman aborting at 20 weeks.

OK, what about 23.5 weeks? The baby's a freakin' baby by then. Put it up for adoption.

 

[fairdinkum]

I don't see how making your mind up before a certain point (say, before the baby could have survived outside the womb) doesn't smack of common sense.

You are missing the point.

Who are you to decide that 'before the baby could have survived outside of the womb' should be the point before which a woman should decide whether or not to terminate her pregnancy?

Why not just extend that logic through to conception? That is what the Catholics do, and I don't see you defending them. As far as they are concerned, life begins at conception and should be protected. Your position follows a similar argument except that you draw the line at a point at which the baby may live (almost certainly with impairments) with the aid of modern science.

Then you have the philosophical problem - what if science should progress to be able to care for babies expelled at 12 weeks? Must the woman then decide before 12 weeks? Where does it end?

And then, what of the woman who is not allowed abortion? Are you happy for her to suffer (and possibly die) in a backyard abortion? To what end?

Isn't 24 weeks another "arbitrary point" anyway?

Essentially, yes. I personally would not legally draw the line at 24 weeks. By drawing the line here, the Bill falls into the same arbitrary hole as does your argument. However, the Bill just passed has provisions allowing abortion beyond this point too (which seems to be why so many are up in arms about it), and so is not inherenlty flawed in the same way as your argument.

 

[fairdinkum]

OK, what about 23.5 weeks? The baby's a freakin' baby by then. Put it up for adoption.

Very few babies can live when born that premature, and those who do are often impaired for the rest of their lives.

If you are happy for the 'birth' to take place at this point regardless, then I trust you are also entirely against abortions performed due to congenital heart defects in the fetus, Down Syndrome etc?

 

[Richo83]

OK, what about 23.5 weeks? The baby's a freakin' baby by then. Put it up for adoption.

There is not cut off point for everyone, every abortion case should be dealt as a specific case by trained medical staff. Anyway, whats it to you when she has the abortion? It's not your business, I mean what if she doesn't want to have the child?

 

[Richo83]

Essentially, yes. I personally would not legally draw the line at 24 weeks. By drawing the line here, the Bill falls into the same arbitrary hole as does your argument. However, the Bill just passed has provisions allowing abortion beyond this point too (which seems to be why so many are up in arms about it), and so is not inherenlty flawed in the same way as your argument.

This bill was always going to have its problems, in writing it and getting it passed. I'm just glad Victoria is making an effort to fix the state of abortions.