Multiplat AFL 23 - Part 2 (23/04/24 PATCH: Sliders are here)

[Kidneykid95]

Seems like patch notes are out already .. not sure how to feel about it.. thoughts??

ITS GONE LIVE ALSO! Just got it on PS5 = 1.7GB

 

[Xtreme]

Just my luck, I sold this game along with my PS4 a little while ago. Then I get the bug to play an AFL game again so I go on Steam looking to buy Evo 2... And it's no longer on there the only AFL game on there is thss one lol.

Doh!

I've been playing Evo 2 on multiple systems. When I first shelved 23, I played Evo 2 on Xbox. Before reverting back to the pc version, and have given the Switch version a whirl every few weeks (love portable footy!!).

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

 

[T2B_]

Doh!

I've been playing Evo 2 on multiple systems. When I first shelved 23, I played Evo 2 on Xbox. Before reverting back to the pc version, and have given the Switch version a whirl every few weeks (love portable footy!!).

Switch version play OK? I remember the odd slow down on PS4 so I'd have assumed the Switch would struggle unless its quite graphically nerfed.

 

[Xtreme]

Switch version play OK? I remember the odd slow down on PS4 so I'd have assumed the Switch would struggle unless its quite graphically nerfed.

Yeah it's not the greatest to be honest. But that's where the settings to turn it into COVID style matches (no crowd) comes in handy, frame rate is more tolerable.

I prefer the pc version (graphical grunt - best frame rate as well.. although as I've said in the thread... it plays a lot faster as a result), but the Switch version is still fun.

 

[Archer_11]

I'm kinda interested in people's opinions on this.

If this update fails which a lot of us are thinking it will it seems (Myself included), What do we think the future of AFL Gaming is?

Big Ant out of the picture? The AFL gives up on gaming entirely? Do both parties give each other one more chance to make it work?

What are we looking at in this case in your opinion?

Forgive the callback.

I think the reality is nothing so exciting. Each AFL game sells between 30k - 50k. For the sake of discussion let's take a dour view and call it 30k with most of the money going to licencing and distribution. That leaves around $1m in the kitty which is just enough to poke it down the trail for another version in a few years time. That's without growth and any upbeat views on what could happen in future and is enough for the franchise to exist, modest though it may be.

In terms of developer, no one is putting up their hand. WW no longer make games and there's a question mark on whether they'd want to licence back if they were. On top of that BA own the publishing and are in a very strong position to keep the licence for the forseable future.

Why would the AFL give up on gaming? Why would they care enough to find a new developer? AFL 23 sold a bunch of copies and AFL25 or 26 will probably sell a bunch more.

This perception we seem to gravitate towards on 23 being an unmitigated disaster in the minds of all concerned is a little blinkered imo. We have had multiple unplayable stinkers the past 25 years; AFL 23 for it's rubbish gameplay still ranks easily in the top 5. I think it's a question of when not if the next one will drop. And behind that, just how much time/money BA will get to work on it.

I don't think we'll see an officially licenced management sim until much further down the track. A game like this probably has 50% the market, even if it's good.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

I'll buy AFL games no matter what. Love the sport and enjoy playing the games, no matter what the frustrations are.

But I would like the license to stay with one studio over many iterations of it. Sure, people are upset at Big Ant now, but imagine the game we would have today if they kept the license from AFL Live in 2011... We'd probably have about 6 iterations of the game by now, surely improving a lot each time. It would dwarf the efforts of AFL Live 2, Evo and Evo2...

I'd imagine it would have declined at some point, though, similar to their Cricket games. They're overly invested in photogrammetry, touring stadiums and having their programmers labour on their own game engine instead of the gameplay.

Just my luck, I sold this game along with my PS4 a little while ago. Then I get the bug to play an AFL game again so I go on Steam looking to buy Evo 2... And it's no longer on there the only AFL game on there is this one lol.

I got it after it was taken off Steam. There's still another way to get Evo 2 on PC if you think about it...

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Forgive the callback.

I think the reality is nothing so exciting. Each AFL game sells between 30k - 50k.

I read from some news article Evo 1 sold under 20,000.

Why would the AFL give up on gaming? Why would they care enough to find a new developer? AFL 23 sold a bunch of copies and AFL25 or 26 will probably sell a bunch more.

The only thing I can think of is that The AFL invest money into gaming, rather than trying to profit from it, use it as a marketing exercise and they hire a triple A developer.

This perception we seem to gravitate towards on 23 being an unmitigated disaster in the minds of all concerned is a little blinkered imo.

It really is, because not only is the gameplay really broken, 10 months later, there's modes and features missing that were advertised at launch.

We have had multiple unplayable stinkers the past 25 years; AFL 23 for it's rubbish gameplay still ranks easily in the top 5.

I don't know about that, you can't move or command the players properly, which at the least most of the previous AFL games got right.

I think it's a question of when not if the next one will drop. And behind that, just how much time/money BA will get to work on it.

If BA make another one, I'm convinced they'll rush it again and won't work on the gameplay from what developers have stated. Cricket 24 is an example of that.

 

[LeeARM]

I'd imagine it would have declined at some point, though, similar to their Cricket games. They're overly invested in photogrammetry, touring stadiums and having their programmers labour on their own game engine instead of the gameplay.

You keep saying this but why is it a given that photogrammetry and making stadiums effects gameplay? You're implying that the budget is wasted on the art department and it's taking away from the programming department but it's a lot easier to find artists than it is to find programmers and Big Ant's resources are shared between multiple games so once you've set up a system for photogrammetry, you can use it as many times as you like, you just have to organise the photo shoots.

You're also suggesting that using a well known engine would save time but all the code would be ported over anyway so you would essentially still have the same engine in a lot of aspects. Plus it would probably take ages to do all that porting. AFL Evolution 2 was delayed by a year to port over everything to Unreal and it looks like it ended up being a waste of time. It certainly didn't make the game look good.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

You keep saying this but why is it a given that photogrammetry and making stadiums effects gameplay?

Because the budget, time and labour goes towards that instead of the programming and gameplay. This is very evident with their Cricket series' decline.

You're implying that the budget is wasted on the art department and it's taking away from the programming department but it's a lot easier to find artists than it is to find programmers and Big Ant's resources are shared between multiple games so once you've set up a system for photogrammetry, you can use it as many times as you like, you just have to organise the photo shoots.

They're still wasting time and labour that could be spent programming the gameplay, likewise with programmers developing their own game engine. Konami don't do that, they use Unreal Engine 4 for eFootball.

You're also suggesting that using a well known engine would save time but all the code would be ported over anyway so you would essentially still have the same engine in a lot of aspects. Plus it would probably take ages to do all that porting. AFL Evolution 2 was delayed by a year to port over everything to Unreal and it looks like it ended up being a waste of time.

Evo 2 functions where you can move the players in the direction you want to go, whereas that's a complete contrast to 23 where it doesn't function properly and they've left it like that. BA definitely could have had another year or 2. WW also made the mistake of wasting labour, time and budget on Photogrammetry instead of just leaving it to the fans. I wouldn't take artificial player faces over gameplay.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

I assume they push it through steam in a few


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[LeeARM]

Because the budget, time and labour goes towards that instead of the programming and gameplay. This is very evident with their Cricket series' decline.

They're still wasting time and labour that could be spent programming the gameplay, likewise with programmers developing their own game engine. Konami don't do that, they use Unreal Engine 4 for eFootball.

Evo 2 functions where you can move the players in the direction you want to go, whereas that's a complete contrast to 23 where it doesn't function properly and they've left it like that. BA definitely could have had another year or 2. WW also made the mistake of wasting labour, time and budget on Photogrammetry instead of just leaving it to the fans. I wouldn't take artificial player faces over gameplay.

But you're assuming the budget was completely used up and that if artists stopped working at a certain point then programmers would have received more time (probably not exactly what you're saying but that's the only conclusion that I can draw).

Really the only thing that is clear is that the programmers need more time to work on the game and they have to split that time between 3 other games. Obviously more programmers will also be beneficial but the company has been expanding like crazy since the Nacon acquisition so that's already happening.

 

[Xtreme]

AFL 23 for it's rubbish gameplay still ranks easily in the top 5.

Visually I'd agree (except for Luke Brueat not looking like Luke Bruest) but game play wise not really.

And (was it here or Reddit ?) I looked last week - there were only 8-12 people playing the game. That's a bit sad (and yes equally sad that I looked at the stats lol).

Someone at my work still plays the PS5 version constantly - whenever he's online it's either AFL 23 or Cricket 24 (or a few hours on one before playing the other).

I put in a lot of time toward the game. I did enjoy it but it should and could have been better.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

But you're assuming the budget was completely used up and that if artists stopped working at a certain point then programmers would have received more time (probably not exactly what you're saying but that's the only conclusion that I can draw).

I'm going by the programmers testimony and the developer's more recent releases. I'm also saying there's an over emphasis of the time, labour and budget going towards the art, that could be spent towards hiring more programmers, getting premium middleware and there should be more hands on direction.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

Think we were in for a bit of a mess when we knew they were scanning the 2022 lists






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[GetAroundHim99]

Am I wrong for thinking that they're going to miss their deadline, Not have the update ready and then say they missed their deadline on Friday or next week. XD

 

[Treehill23]

Am I wrong for thinking that they're going to miss their deadline, Not have the update ready and then say they missed their deadline on Friday or next week. XD

There’s definitely a chance this happens knowing how these guys operate.
I still don’t trust ProTeam launching in AFL 23

 

[LeeARM]

I'm going by the programmers testimony and the developer's more recent releases. I'm also saying there's an over emphasis of the time, labour and budget going towards the art, that could be spent towards hiring more programmers, getting premium middleware and there should be more hands on direction.

Fair enough. I don't think that removing photogrammetry is necessary or would solve much but I agree that programming needs to be a big focus.

 

[Archer_11]

One good thing about the blackout is that we've got nfi in how much work has been done. I'll fall off my chair if Ross doesn't care about righting the ship and wanting to have the last laugh so to speak.

It won't be the version we hoped it would be, that ship has sailed, but BA's strategy from 2011 till now is to incrementally improve the game and that's a strategy that's worked across the industry more often than not. Whether it's this week or the mid season patch my guess is it will be a step forward this year.

Things I'm worried about - ridiculous pricing on the pro team with no season pass or similar; still no sliders and team management still being a mess. I can see these things happening absolutely. But provided they fix the core gameplay so it's actually fun to play I can live with that outcome until the next one.

Sent from my SM-F946B using Tapatalk

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Fair enough. I don't think that removing photogrammetry is necessary or would solve much but I agree that programming needs to be a big focus.

It doesn't help the gameplay, that a number of artists who work on stuff we will barely notice, when they could hire programmers in their place, and give them resources to better do their job. The only thing I think is necessary would be the modeling on the computer and motion capture technology, rather than touring stadiums taking photos and photogrammetry.

 

[T2B_]

Am I wrong for thinking that they're going to miss their deadline, Not have the update ready and then say they missed their deadline on Friday or next week. XD

The update got lost in a sea freight container in the ocean.

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

In before it’s an emergency patch and not something that was submitted to go through testing


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[AFL23fan]

happy afl 23 update eve

 

[LeeARM]

It doesn't help the gameplay, that a number of artists who work on stuff we will barely notice, when they could hire programmers in their place, and give them resources to better do their job. The only thing I think is necessary would be the modeling on the computer and motion capture technology, rather than touring stadiums taking photos and photogrammetry.

I definitely wouldn't say "barely notice". Seeing generic create-a-character Sam Draper in Evolution 2 is as jarring as it gets.

 

[AFL23fan]

have a look at https://steamdb.info/app/2337630/history/

 

[GoldbergsGold]

I definitely wouldn't say "barely notice". Seeing generic create-a-character Sam Draper in Evolution 2 is as jarring as it gets.

I don't notice their faces when I'm playing, and I think they had features where fans could modify the faces.