News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[Wild Bill]

If North get gifted Sanders and first round pick for McKay I expect none of their fans to complain about academies again.

You think Saunders and another player is the equivalent of Heeney, Mills, Gulden etc?

 

[BloodySwan]

You think Saunders and another player is the equivalent of Heeney, Mills, Gulden etc?

You don't think 2x top 10 picks is equivalent to top 10 picks? At least we had to use our other picks to match

 

[Makeshift Park]

You don't think 2x top 10 picks is equivalent to top 10 picks? At least we had to use our other picks to match

*At a 20% discount

 

[Makeshift Park]

You don't think 2x top 10 picks is equivalent to top 10 picks? At least we had to use our other picks to match

If North got an end of first round compo for Mckay, but got the same leg up as the swans, the result would be much the same as what is going to happen anyway, something like:

WC select Reid
North select Walter, bid matched by GC, GC get 20% discount
North select Curtin
Hawthorn select McKercher, North match bid on basis he spent time with our NGA, 20% discount applies
Hawks select Watson
Melbourne select Duursma
GC select Read, 20% discount applies
Adelaide select Sanders, North match bid, 20% discount applies

We'd need to use a little more draft capital to make it happen, but that's it.

 

[BloodySwan]

Entitlement for North fans is extreme

 

[BloodySwan]

*At a 20% discount

Draft points are always at a 20% discount. When do they come into play except for matching bids?

 

[FB19]

If North got an end of first round compo for Mckay, but got the same leg up as the swans, the result would be much the same as what is going to happen anyway, something like:

WC select Reid
North select Walter, bid matched by GC, GC get 20% discount
North select Curtin
Hawthorn select McKercher, North match bid on basis he spent time with our NGA, 20% discount applies
Hawks select Watson
Melbourne select Duursma
GC select Read, 20% discount applies
Adelaide select Sanders, North match bid, 20% discount applies

We'd need to use a little more draft capital to make it happen, but that's it.

Since when has McKercher been in north’s academy?

 

[Makeshift Park]

Since when has McKercher been in north’s academy?

He participated in it as a teen, but my understanding is he's not NGA eligible for the purposes of the draft because he's not indigenous. (I think. Happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood.)
My point is just that a player coming from Sydney's academy doesn't have that prerequisite for them to match a bid on them.

 

[Obeanie1]

Just like when the Dogs got JUH, just like when Sydney got Nick Blakey through its academy, just like when Gold Coast got Anderson and Rowell, just like when Daniher got band 1 and charitably extended his contract at 2/3s the rate... Enforcing integrity in the draft and trade season is pretty far down the AFL’s list of priorities.

In the absence of much integrity from the AFL commission on this, of course North supporters are going to point to precedence to argue what they think is fair within an unfair system.

Agree with all that.

Precidence says you need a $800k contract to land bamd 1. McKay isnt worth that and North posters have explained why.

Some North poster mentioned Sanders had been a North nga since he was 12. Hmmmm.

Quote from Sanders.

"North have been talking with me since I was 15. If I need anything they say just let them know"

-melbourne-kangaroos/afl-news-2023-north-melbourne-three-top10-draft-picks-ben-mckay-compensation-first-round-pick-ryley-sanders-next-generation-academy-prelisted/news-story/fe2d2db2

Be interested to know exactly what development they put into him. During the past three covid years with limited games and no travel early on. A couple of pairs of boots, a footy or two, a North shirt and a beanie!

 

[TheGrizz]

Hold on, when did McKercher become part of the NGA?
Isn't it Sanders?

 

[Makeshift Park]

Hold on, when did McKercher become part of the NGA?
Isn't it Sanders?

Yes, Sanders is the one we're applying to become NGA eligible for us to prelist.
McKercher was in the NGA squads for development purposes a few years ago, but he isn't eligible for the purposes of the draft because (as I understand it) he isn't aboriginal.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Still amazes me that clubs get rewarded for s**t decsions,its not the other 17 clubs fault that your recruiters cant spot talent and continually pick players that are either no good or hire development coaches that are any good at their jobs. paying Polec 750k a year is just one example. Do what richmond and melbourne have done draft elite kids with top picks and then sign free agents instead of relying on handouts

North have had enough top picks in their squad.

2 - Sheezel
3 - Wardlaw
3 - Phillips
4 - LDU
6 - Stephenson *
8 - Thomas
8 - Logue *
8 - McDonald
11 - Bonar *
12 - Simpkin
12 - Corr *
13 - Powell
20 - CCJ *
21 - McKay
22 - Goater
27 - Tucker *
34 - Mahony
31 - Howe *
35 - Perez
35 - Curtis

* not originally drafted by North

They also have a few old boys that were top picks: Cunnington (5), Ziebell (9), Shiels (34) and Goldy (37).

As pointed out by SSSSSS below their biggest issue is development and culture it seems.

North have 25 first and 2nd rounders on their list.

They are potentially going to add 4-5 more.

An incredible amount considering most clubs have 44-46 players.

This is a VAFA club masquerading as an AFL club.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Precidence says you need a $800k contract to land bamd 1. McKay isnt worth that and North posters have explained why.

Right. But in this sham of a system, I would argue he probably is worth 3 years at 800k so long as in six months time he charitably extends for another 3 years at 500k.

 

[Obeanie1]

You think Saunders and another player is the equivalent of Heeney, Mills, Gulden etc?

Would you rather the Swans draft Vic kids instead?

They still pay for them with allocated draft picks. Not gifted for free.

Which is what a PP and pre listing is. So totally different to the handouts North fans are begging for.

 

[Obeanie1]

Right. But in this sham of a system, I would argue he probably is worth 3 years at 800k so long as in six months time he charitably extends for another 3 years at 500k.

For a frequently injured defender who is struggling with and allegedly doesnt suit Clarkson's game plan.

Suppose we will have to just wait and see how silly any suitors are and what they offer.

 

[BloodySwan]

He participated in it as a teen, but my understanding is he's not NGA eligible for the purposes of the draft because he's not indigenous. (I think. Happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood.)
My point is just that a player coming from Sydney's academy doesn't have that prerequisite for them to match a bid on them.

Apart from the word academy the Next Gen Academies and the Swans academies are completely different. Not sure why you're comparing them.

Sanders is a great example; he has had no development from North yet you're able to link him to your club all of a sudden. Swans Academies aren't able to pull a player in at the last minute like that.

Instead of complaining how hard done by North is just take the gift and run with it.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Apart from the word academy the Next Gen Academies and the Swans academies are completely different. Not sure why you're comparing them.

Sanders is a great example; he has had no development from North yet you're able to link him to your club all of a sudden. Swans Academies aren't able to pull a player in at the last minute like that.

Instead of complaining how hard done by North is just take the gift and run with it.

Sanders has done development with the NGA:

Next Generation Academy squads Tasmania

Next Gen Academy squads have been finalised for Tasmania across the North, North West and South.

www.nmfc.com.au

And the reason I'm comparing the NGA and the Swans academy is because I'm inside a thread discussing why the draft is compromised.

 

[botts]

Mate there are a couple about saying pick 3 is what North should get for compo. More than a couple.

And you need a $800k contract to land that.

Just read an article that said the afl has assure clubs it won’t manipulate Mackay’s compensation to trigger band 1. Will be interesting to see what he is actually offered

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Agree with all that.

Precidence says you need a $800k contract to land bamd 1. McKay isnt worth that and North posters have explained why.

Some North poster mentioned Sanders had been a North nga since he was 12. Hmmmm.

Quote from Sanders.

"North have been talking with me since I was 15. If I need anything they say just let them know"

-melbourne-kangaroos/afl-news-2023-north-melbourne-three-top10-draft-picks-ben-mckay-compensation-first-round-pick-ryley-sanders-next-generation-academy-prelisted/news-story/fe2d2db2

Be interested to know exactly what development they put into him. During the past three covid years with limited games and no travel early on. A couple of pairs of boots, a footy or two, a North shirt and a beanie!

Just fwiw the poster that said Sanders had been identified and (perhaps) part of the academy at 12 was a Collingwood supporter, KinderSmock who presented to me as having some decent knowledge of that arena. Sanders says we've been in contact with him since 15 (which is not unreasonable, these academies are open and can have up to 100 kids in them so the club would obviously take an interest in draft hopefuls once they've matured more). As for development, what development does any club put into players? We don't really see it. He's definitely trained at the club (there were photos on the North board of him sitting in on team meetings etc at Arden St but if you've seen the North board I'm not going back through the 100 pages over the last fortnight to find them). He's also said we've been there to help when needed, whatever that means. Covid hasn't really been of impact either as when it was at it's peak he was in Tasmania which was pretty much open and has since been in Melbourne to no restrictions.

Take away the prospect North is trying to get an academy player pre-listed (using the initiative of when GC were able to do it with their package a few years ago), for me the mystery is why he isn't in there anyway or what we've had to prove. He's certainly been in the North NGA academy and certainly been involved with the club to x degree. He's certainly indigenous and has played rep footy for indigenous sides. It feels almost like an accounting error somewhere down the line although I since believe this has been sorted and he will be added to our NGA list for access. The rest is up to the AFL because he sure as shit isn't making it out of the top 40.

 

[Ry009]

If North get gifted Sanders and first round pick for McKay I expect none of their fans to complain about academies again.

I'm all for doing away with F/S, academies, FA, allowances - compo the lot. None of it should exist.

 

[Mofra]

Just like when the Dogs got JUH, just like when Sydney got Nick Blakey through its academy, just like when Gold Coast got Anderson and Rowell, just like when Daniher got band 1 and charitably extended his contract at 2/3s the rate... Enforcing integrity in the draft and trade season is pretty far down the AFL’s list of priorities.

In the absence of much integrity from the AFL commission on this, of course North supporters are going to point to precedence to argue what they think is fair within an unfair system.

The rules are what they are at the time. Just as the Bulldogs missed out on Rance & Sam and Ben Reid when FS eligibility was changed from 50 to 100 games. It happens. You did manage to get Tarryn Thomas before the change to pick 40 for NGA access.

Asking the AFL to bend the rules doesn't make it right.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

The rules are what they are at the time. Just as the Bulldogs missed out on Rance & Sam and Ben Reid when FS eligibility was changed from 50 to 100 games. It happens. You did manage to get Tarryn Thomas before the change to pick 40 for NGA access.

Asking the AFL to bend the rules doesn't make it right.

I get that the entire system is frustrating to other clubs but the rules in 2019 were that the Gold Coast Suns could match bids from other clubs anywhere in the draft but when they got their bumper assistance package that rule was changed briefly to allow them to pre-list those players instead. AFL assistance hasn't been abolished (clearly, there was some considerations given last year) so while it could be perceived as North asking the AFL to bend rules, really all they're (potentially) asking for is the same thing allowed to a club just four years ago as part of a total package.

If the AFL isn't prepared to put a line entirely through assistance (which they should have done years ago) then some creativity is needed. No matter what it is, it will be detrimental to the rest of the league. North Melbourne as it is is detrimental to the league. And it doesn't make it right but when you allow a precedent it will enter the conversation.

 

[Makeshift Park]

The rules are what they are at the time. Just as the Bulldogs missed out on Rance & Sam and Ben Reid when FS eligibility was changed from 50 to 100 games. It happens. You did manage to get Tarryn Thomas before the change to pick 40 for NGA access.

Asking the AFL to bend the rules doesn't make it right.

To be clear, I’m not here to argue that North have been particularly hard done by.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Right. But in this sham of a system, I would argue he probably is worth 3 years at 800k so long as in six months time he charitably extends for another 3 years at 500k.

Who is offering a guy that’s body has let him down to have only played 66 games in his 8th season a 6 year contract?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

As a Freo supporter who has gotten nothing forever and is forever mediocre but not shit enough to warrant help I'm torn. I truly like F/S's as something different and magical but I'm tired of the bottom teams getting shafted and their is such an insane benefit in a club that is in finals / competing getting a top 4 draft pick at the practical price of a pick in the teens that is creates a massive imbalance.

I think the whole thing needs a sweeping overhaul and my proposals would be:

• For the foreseeable future, GC and GWS get universal access to their academy talent BUT at a limit of only one in the first round each year. Anything more just completely ****s the draft. I dont like other teams getting a leg up but if we want these clubs to grow and be self-sustaining then I dont see any other way.
• F/S's should be the same except with the added restriction that a finals side can not match a top 4 bid (might need tweaking with extra teams but you get my drift). The bottom teams getting ****ed on talent is shit.
• Remove discounts and/or make it that a team must have a pick in the round they want to match the bid. No more matching a pick 8 with 4 picks after 30.
• All other NGAs only applying to after 40s picks is dumb. There is some real good that can come from NGAs in putting effort and time into rural kids or kids from different backgrounds that would struggle otherwise. Does this get basically abused with some questionable eligibility criteria? Sure, but I'm willing to pay that price. All other club academy / NGAs brought up to matching after pick 20
• No more AFL bullshit pick assistance and meddling ever. Find another way, stop ****ing other teams in the draft

Sorry Sydney and Brisbane peeps, I just dont think you need assistance anymore, the game is strong enough in your area AND your clubs are strong enough that I dont see any reason you need different rules to WA or SA teams.