News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[Snuffaluphagus]

To add to the above, as a math/draft/trade nerd, the different trade scenarios around points and matching bids is interesting as **** and makes discussions around trade strategy really cool. I dont want to lose that entirely

 

[Sphynx]

To add to the above, as a math/draft/trade nerd, the different trade scenarios around points and matching bids is interesting as * and makes discussions around trade strategy really cool. I dont want to lose that entirely

I think all top 10 picks should be protected

Academy, F/S, NGA whatever.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think all top 10 picks should be protected

Academy, F/S, NGA whatever.

I'd be ok with that for everyone other than GC and GWS who I think are justified in needing an extra leg up compared to every other club. In truth I did start with saying top 10 protected for F/S but I'd be ok with only protecting the truly shit teams in full rebuild mode from missing out on the absolute best talent in the draft

 

[Makeshift Park]

As a Freo supporter who has gotten nothing forever and is forever mediocre but not s**t enough to warrant help I'm torn. I truly like F/S's as something different and magical but I'm tired of the bottom teams getting shafted and their is such an insane benefit in a club that is in finals / competing getting a top 4 draft pick at the practical price of a pick in the teens that is creates a massive imbalance.

I think the whole thing needs a sweeping overall and my proposals would be:

• For the foreseeable future, GC and GWS get universal access to their academy talent BUT at a limit of only one in the first round each year. Anything more just completely *s the draft. I dont like other teams getting a leg up but if we want these clubs to grow and be self-sustaining then I dont see any other way.
• F/S's should be the same except with the added restriction that a finals side can not match a top 4 bid (might need tweaking with extra teams but you get my drift). The bottom teams getting ****ed on talent is s**t.
• Remove discounts and/or make it that a team must have a pick in the round they want to match the bid. No more matching a pick 8 with 4 picks after 30.
• All other NGAs only applying to after 40s picks is dumb. There is some real good that can come from NGAs in putting effort and time into rural kids or kids from different backgrounds that would struggle otherwise. Does this get basically abused with some questionable eligibility criteria? Sure, but I'm willing to pay that price. All other club academy / NGAs brought up to matching after pick 20
• No more AFL bullshit pick assistance and meddling ever. Find another way, stop ******* other teams in the draft

Sorry Sydney and Brisbane peeps, I just dont think you need assistance anymore, the game is strong enough in your area AND your clubs are strong enough that I dont see any reason you need different rules to WA or SA teams.

I agree with most of that, and I’d add a sunset clause with a specific date on the GWS and GC stuff too. (Even 2035 would be better than nothing because it’s a transparent and finite deadline)

But I’d get rid of F/S entirely because it prioritises romance over draft integrity.

If the AFL came out tomorrow and announced that, you wouldn’t get a peep from me about missing out on Sanders.

 

[Oisin_the_Goat]

North have had enough top picks in their squad.

2 - Sheezel
3 - Wardlaw
3 - Phillips
4 - LDU
6 - Stephenson *
8 - Thomas
8 - Logue *
8 - McDonald
11 - Bonar *
12 - Simpkin
12 - Corr *
13 - Powell
20 - CCJ *
21 - McKay
22 - Goater
27 - Tucker *
34 - Mahony
31 - Howe *
35 - Perez
35 - Curtis

* not originally drafted by North

They also have a few old boys that were top picks: Cunnington (5), Ziebell (9), Shiels (34) and Goldy (37).

As pointed out by SSSSSS below their biggest issue is development and culture it seems.

The better clubs get 2nd rounders and get them to play like 1st rounders

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I agree with most of that, and I’d add a sunset clause with a specific date on the GWS and GC stuff too. (Even 2035 would be better than nothing because it’s a transparent and finite date)

But I’d get rid of F/S entirely because it prioritises romance over draft integrity.

If the AFL came out tomorrow and announced that, you wouldn’t get a peep from me about missing out on Sanders.

While I disagree on F/S, I understand, I think at least my compromise between the two (I'd be ok moving it out to 10 as well) addresses the main point. The top end of the draft has to be protected in particular. With a draft order based on where you finished and player movement not the same as other leagues, it's like 90% of maintaining an even comp. It's ridiculous it's at the stage it's compromised so ****ing much.

I think what shits me the most though is just how little thought is put into this stuff from the AFL. Not to toot my own horn that much but it took me, by myself, about 15 minutes of thought to come up with what I think approaches a vastly fairer system while leaving in some of the things some people like. How can such a massive organisation be so ****ing useless, slow and dumb in decision making. Why is this shit so hard?

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Who is offering a guy that’s body has let him down to have only played 66 games in his 8th season a 6 year contract?

Bit of a myth really. Struggled to break into the side as a junior in the Brad Scott era with Tarrant, Thompson and eventually Daw in front of him, got his chance early 2020 and stayed in until 2022 when he lost a couple of weeks with a knee knock and subbed off four times with concussion. Missed four weeks to start this season with a pre-season ankle injury and has stayed in since re-joining. Really he's played 62 of 72 games since breaking into the side properly and his disjointed record is more from development. As a recruiter I'd be more disturbed by the bad run with concussion in 2022 than anything else.

Also has probably absorbed some of Harry's injuries into his record.

 

[.Shotties.]

, just like when Sydney got Nick Blakey through its academy,

Not really. Blakey grew up in Sydney. He was in our academy from the first day it was possible. His dad playing football doesn't mean he would have played or gotten anywhere near draftable level. Ask Paul Roos's kids or Michael Voss's

 

[Mofra]

To be clear, I’m not here to argue that North have been particularly hard done by.

That's fine. I've argued elsewhere for north assistance (thread on the MB is still ongoing) as having a team down the bottom of the letter for an extended period of time creates problems if it's own (fixturing, fairness, etc).

Access to multiple top ten picks on an exception basis is a bridge too far and it seems a common refrain.

 

[L_W_P]

I don't understand why they are gunning so hard for Sanders.

Sure, he's talented, but if he's any good in his first 50 games he'll get a million bucks from the AFL to be the face of the Tassie team and North will be back where they started.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

I don't understand why they are gunning so hard for Sanders.

Sure, he's talented, but if he's any good in his first 50 games he'll get a million bucks from the AFL to be the face of the Tassie team and North will be back where they started.

Woo hoo. Future picks.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Access to multiple top ten picks on an exception basis is a bridge too far and it seems a common refrain.

A lot of this debate would be better informed if RFAs salaries were just made public.

I suspect there is some kind of shenanigans going on for McKay’s trade to result in band 1 compo, but no one really knows for sure.

 

[.Shotties.]

I dont see any reason you need different rules to WA or SA teams.

How many retuning NSW players from the first two rounds of the draft have returned to Sydney in, say, the last decade?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

How many retuning NSW players from the first two rounds of the draft have returned to Sydney in, say, the last decade?

As in they were drafted by another club first after living in Sydney as a kid? I might be ignorant here but how many werent drafted by the Swans or GWS through academy concessions? Arent they ALL drafted by those two clubs?

 

[FB19]

More AFL bulls^*t. Have you ever seen a less professional sporting organisation? How can whether someone is in an academy be a debate? Why aren’t academy lists transparent?

 

[.Shotties.]

As in they were drafted by another club first after living in Sydney as a kid?

Yep.

I might be ignorant here but how many werent drafted by the Swans or GWS through academy concessions? Arent they ALL drafted by those two clubs?

No

 

[Makeshift Park]

How many retuning NSW players from the first two rounds of the draft have returned to Sydney in, say, the last decade?

Your club has priority access to more than half the kids in a metropolis of five million.

Your club has been in six grand finals in the past two decades, during which time you’ve won two premierships.

There isn’t a team that exemplifies the distortion of the draft better than the Swans.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

How many retuning NSW players from the first two rounds of the draft have returned to Sydney in, say, the last decade?

To add onto this, Brisbane have no problem bringing in good players from outside QLD (Neale, Daniher, Dunkley, Hodge, Gunston, Birchall) . Whats the biggest non WA player to be picked up by Freo or WC? Jack Redden? Will Brodie? My guess is with Buddy off the books (decent name to bring in by the way), Sydney will start to have similar luck, starting with Barrass this year.

Playing in a non-football state has it's own benefits

Yep.

No

Ok, who was drafted to a team outside NSW in the top 20 picks in the last decade that was born and raised in NSW

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Matt Kennedy?

Drafted by GWS because he was in their academy...

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yep.

No

Hell, I'll settle for ANY player drafted from NSW to a non-NSW team, I'll take rookie listed players even. They must not have been in an academy though because that would confirm that basically the clubs have unilateral access to all talent from the state and your point is completely irrelevant

 

[.Shotties.]

Ok, who was drafted to a team outside NSW in the top 20 picks in the last decade that was born and raised in NSW

Why have you suddenly cinched it to the top 20 picks?

Your club has priority access to more than half the kids in a metropolis of five million.

Without getting into why your numbers are incorrect, this is a bit disingenuous. Australian football isn't anywhere near the most popular junior sport here. It's just as accurate to say North has priority access to a whole state which is already a football state and another which can pull from existing elite talent pathways.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Ok, who was drafted to a team outside NSW in the top 20 picks in the last decade that was born and raised in NSW

Took me a while but I got there:

Todd Marshall!

 

[.Shotties.]

Hell, I'll settle for ANY player drafted from NSW to a non-NSW team, I'll take rookie listed players even. They must not have been in an academy though because that would confirm that basically the clubs have unilateral access to all talent from the state and your point is completely irrelevant

What? Your original post says "aren't all NSW kids drafted by GWS or Sydney?" Now you say if an academy player is drafted by another team, it somehow proves a point? All elite talent goes through the academies up here. It's literally the only elite level football they can play.

Anyway, without even thinking too hard players who were drafted from NSW by other teams:

-Charlie Spargo
-Todd Marshall

• Luke Parks
• Ben Davies

Someone on the Swans board keeps track of our academy draftees, but the short answer to your original belief that all NSW players get drafted by the Giants or Swans is "They don't".

 

[The Filth Wizard]

Took me a while but I got there:

Todd Marshall!

We're always forgetting Todd Marshall.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Without getting into why your numbers are incorrect, this is a bit disingenuous. Australian football isn't anywhere near the most popular junior sport here. It's just as accurate to say North has priority access to a whole state which is already a football state and another which can pull from existing elite talent pathways.

"Incorrect" in the sense I was being too generous to the Swans?
2021 ABS census: greater Sydney has a population of 5.2m
Add another 400k from greater Wollongong and Newcastle.

I live bang smack in between Sydney and Wollongong in NRL heartland.
My kid does the local Auskick program which has representatives coming down from the Swans all the time.
Its amazing for kids development. I grew up in rural Tassie in the early 90s where there was SFA investment in junior football and I'm thankful for the outreach programs here in NSW and all that.

But NONE of that is a reason to continue giving the Swans a discount on matching academy kids.