News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[BloodySwan]

Most of the questions which get raised here have already been addressed by the AFL

The 10 big questions on the new father-son and academy bidding system

Callum Twomey breaks down the new system and its draft implications

www.afl.com.au

 

[Bojan KantKick]

This is a hilariously bad take.

Swans argument: without the academy there isn't a pathway to develop talent in NSW
Your argument: that's not true, they can move outside of NSW!

Do you hear yourself?

My argument is specific to father sons. I am pro northern academies I just don't think there should be a discount. Academies are needed to develop players with NON-AFL backgrounds. Sons of AFL legends are probably aware of the sport.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

It's outside what was being discussed. This is why I said you were being disingenous

And no, Spargo (who lived in Albury and was part of he Giants academy from 12 and the Bushrangers, who'd had made multiple state teams before moving to Melbourne to finish his schooling) doesn't count because it doesn't relate to the original point I was making about players in Sydney and further north.

There have literally been players of AFL coaches sons up in the northern states who've crushed the local competitions, but you think for some reason without the academy, Blakey would have been the first to make it? Based on what?

Anyway, who are these Queensland academy products who moved to Melbourne to play school football?


Jesus Christ. People aren't moving from academy areas to solely play for High school football teams. Most draftable academy players (who are, again, entirely from traditional football areas) who move for a scholarship would already be in a system.

But one more time just to make sure it's there: who are the academy players moving to Melbourne?

So you are moving your argument from NSW as a whole to Sydney.

Jacob Hopper. Melbourne private schools take players from all over the country on scholarships. Where do you think Ryley Sanders is playing his footy despite being Tasmanian.

BTW there have been plenty of father sons based in Victoria who haven't made it because they aren't good enough. They wouldn't have been good enough if they were in an academy structure either.

 

[.Shotties.]

So you are moving your argument from NSW as a whole to Sydney.

My original point was Sydney, or more specifically from Wollongong north. Hence, you trying to say 'Academy areas' repeatedly is disingenuous.

Jacob Hopper. Melbourne private schools take players from all over the country on scholarships. Where do you think Ryley Sanders is playing his footy despite being Tasmanian.

You're making your argument deliberately more vague again. In any case, Jacob Hopper is from Leeton, was (again) in two talent pathways, and never actually moved to Melbourne for school.

BTW there have been plenty of father sons based in Victoria who haven't made it because they aren't good enough. They wouldn't have been good enough if they were in an academy structure either.

Yes, thus proving my original point that just being the son of a footballer doesn't mean someone will automatically make it.

Look, this is pointless. Your argument that kids outside traditional AFL areas have a pathway because they can move to another city to do it is stupid.

 

[BloodySwan]

My argument is specific to father sons. I am pro northern academies I just don't think there should be a discount. Academies are needed to develop players with NON-AFL backgrounds. Sons of AFL legends are probably aware of the sport.

Do you think academies are just about showing a kid a video of AFL football? It's not just about introducing kids to the game, there were plenty of kids who were aware of the sport

 

[Back One Out]

Seems like this is the 2020's version of the old COLA shitefights, where Swans fans try to argue it's not a leg up, and that it's necessary for the "good of the game", while everyone watches on as they load up their team with All Australians Isaac Heeney

5

Isaac Heeney

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

4.9

5star

T

4.1

5star

CL

2.2

4star

D

14.3

3star

K

8.8

4star

HB

5.5

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

0.8

3star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.8

3star

, Callum Mills

14

Callum Mills

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

10.8

4star

HB

7.4

5star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

287.0

4star

D

18.4

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

3.4

4star

MG

293.4

4star

D

17.0

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.6

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

284.4

5star

, Errol Gulden, Nick Blakey

22

Nick Blakey

Age

25

Ht

196cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.4

4star

MG

189.1

3star

D

8.1

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.6

4star

MG

189.1

3star

D

7.2

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.2

2star

T

1.2

3star

, plus Braeden Campbell, etc

 

[.Shotties.]

Seems like this is the 2020's version of the old COLA shitefights, where Swans fans try to argue it's not a leg up, and that it's necessary for the "good of the game", while everyone watches on as they load up their team with All Australians Isaac Heeney, Callum Mills, Errol Gulden, Nick Blakey, plus Braeden Campbell, etc

Thank you for your strawman Chewy, I look forward to your next one.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Do you think academies are just about showing a kid a video of AFL football? It's not just about introducing kids to the game, there were plenty of kids who were aware of the sport

I never said that.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

My original point was Sydney, or more specifically from Wollongong north. Hence, you trying to say 'Academy areas' repeatedly is disingenuous.

You're making your argument deliberately more vague again. In any case, Jacob Hopper is from Leeton, was (again) in two talent pathways, and never actually moved to Melbourne for school.

Yes, thus proving my original point that just being the son of a footballer doesn't mean someone will automatically make it.

Look, this is pointless. Your argument that kids outside traditional AFL areas have a pathway because they can move to another city to do it is stupid.

Is NSW not split into two catchment areas or zones for Sydney and GWS's academies?

Jacob Hopper moved state to a Victorian Private School in Ballarat.

Because two kids of father sons living in NSW didn't make it, your academies work and can pinch father sons? That's your point right?

My argument is stupid because you don't like it. Victorian private schools recruit players from all over the country.

 

[.Shotties.]

Is NSW not split into two catchment areas or zones for Sydney and GWS's academies?

Yes, however in my first post, I specified a particular area because these aren't traditional football areas with existing talent pathways like the TAC Cup.

Jacob Hopper moved state to a Victorian Private School in Ballarat.

Because two kids of father sons living in NSW didn't make it, your academies work and can pinch father sons? That's your point right?

No. My argument is that Blakey's dad being a former player doesn't mean he automatically would have made it and, in fact, growing up in Sydney without an elite pathway, he probably wouldn't have based on literally the entire weight of evidence we have about father-sons in non-traditional football areas. The funny part is that both you and another poster have tried a gotcha where you highlight that players kids, even with the help of talent pathways, can't crack the AFL.

My argument is stupid because you don't like it. Victorian private schools recruit players from all over the country.

No, your argument is stupid because you can't furnish it with examples of what's actually being discussed (for the fifth time, examples of players from anywhere north of Wollongong moving to Victoria? Even one?) and you need to either distort the original point or become increasingly more vague in order to argue it.

 

[cdcanman]

My original point was Sydney, or more specifically from Wollongong north. Hence, you trying to say 'Academy areas' repeatedly is disingenuous.

You're making your argument deliberately more vague again. In any case, Jacob Hopper is from Leeton, was (again) in two talent pathways, and never actually moved to Melbourne for school.

Yes, thus proving my original point that just being the son of a footballer doesn't mean someone will automatically make it.

Look, this is pointless. Your argument that kids outside traditional AFL areas have a pathway because they can move to another city to do it is stupid.

Jacob hopper completed his senior years boarding at St Pat’s, a private school in Ballarat, Victoria. Not sure how much GWS were contributing to his development while he was there.

I’m happy to accept that Academies are necessary and that they actually do keep talented athletes playing AFL rather than choosing other sports. Why do they need to be attached to teams though? Why can’t the AFL run the academies, therefore not giving any club priority access to the players involved, they can just enter the open draft pool?

 

[.Shotties.]

Jacob hopper completed his senior years boarding at St Pat’s, a private school in Ballarat, Victoria. Not sure how much GWS were contributing to his development while he was there.

Probably the 3 years preceding that which might have helped.

I’m happy to accept that Academies are necessary and that they actually do keep talented athletes playing AFL rather than choosing other sports. Why do they need to be attached to teams though? Why can’t the AFL run the academies, therefore not giving any club priority access to the players involved, they can just enter the open draft pool?

Because the AFL had two bites at it. they let all clubs have a go at development in NSW and, surprise surprise, most clubs didn't actually invest much in setting up proper development systems.

 

[cdcanman]

Probably the 3 years preceding that which might have helped.

So when is the cut off? What if you put in work with a 5 year old? That count? Auskickers? Sign ‘em up I say.

Because the AFL had two bites at it. they let all clubs have a go at development in NSW and, surprise surprise, most clubs didn't actually invest much in setting up proper development systems

Didn’t I suggest taking it out of any clubs hands and having the AFL run the northern academies? So how is the clubs previous failures relevant? Doesn’t that support what I am suggesting?
So if we could guarantee that the AFL would invest and implement them properly you would be ok with that? What if they adopt the exact model that the Sydney clubs have been using which I’m assuming you’d think is working well. Just slap an AFL logo on them, no more compromised drafts due to academies. Job done. Thanks for your support. Cause it’s about keeping the talented kids playing footy, right? It’s not about an unfair advantage for any clubs in particular. For the good of the game. Problem solved, thanks for your help

 

[.Shotties.]

So when is the cut off? What if you put in work with a 5 year old? That count? Auskickers? Sign ‘em up I say.

I'm sorry, I'm sure you're trying to make a point here but you've missed me.

Didn’t I suggest taking it out of any clubs hands and having the AFL run the northern academies? So how is the clubs previous failures relevant? Doesn’t that support what I am suggesting?

You're being awfully sarcastic for someone who doesn't have any clue about the attempts at development up here.

The AFL tried to set up an elite pathway under their own branding just before the clubs got given a shot. How many players were drafted out of the Sydney Metro Cats?

So if we could guarantee that the AFL would invest and implement them properly you would be ok with that? What if they adopt the exact model that the Sydney clubs have been using which I’m assuming you’d think is working well. Just slap an AFL logo on them, no more compromised drafts due to academies. Job done. Thanks for your support. Cause it’s about keeping the talented kids playing footy, right? It’s not about an unfair advantage for any clubs in particular. For the good of the game. Problem solved, thanks for your help

Oh no, it's absolutely also about balancing intrinsic inequalities in the game, such as some teams being forced to make up the majority of their list from interstate players and often having to pay a premium as a result.

 

[Jakooli]

Imagine in 2025 if the AFL just decided to clear the boards. Wooden spoon got Pick 1, no swaps, no NGA, no father sons! The draw also would have to be cleared up. 17 rounds playing every team once, alternating each year for home and away. Home being your own ground not Cairns, Hobart or Ballarat. GWS v Fremantle for ANZAC day anyone. Essendon v Collingwood 5pm Sunday arvo in round 16.
We are stuck in a sporting competition so compromised it’s a joke!

 

[Swanssince91]

Stop drafting mids and forward flankers with high picks every draft between 2016 and 2022.

North have sooo much young talent, but it’s all in the same two areas of the ground.

They choose a mid over Logan Mcdonald.

 

[Swanssince91]

Imagine in 2025 if the AFL just decided to clear the boards. Wooden spoon got Pick 1, no swaps, no NGA, no father sons! The draw also would have to be cleared up. 17 rounds playing every team once, alternating each year for home and away. Home being your own ground not Cairns, Hobart or Ballarat. GWS v Fremantle for ANZAC day anyone. Essendon v Collingwood 5pm Sunday arvo in round 16.
We are stuck in a sporting competition so compromised it’s a joke!

And the grand final venue went to the highest team on the ladder?

 

[Jakooli]

And the grand final venue went to the highest team on the ladder?

Hell yeah, swap grand final to every capital city , same as gather round

 

[sydney_gws]

I don’t have a problem with expansion clubs being given draft concessions. Significant ones early on, gradually getting less significant over the first few years are entirely appropriate and necessary. If it’s decided that academies are a healthy part of this, no problem. Tasmania will get something similar. Only problem I have with them is that they don’t have an end date. Once established, they should receive no advantages, and the AFL’s desire to continue to support these teams, and to a lesser extent Sydney and Brisbane, is the only reason that we now find ourselves in the NGA Academy mess. They were the AFL’s response to the clubs whining about the northern academies. We moved away from draft zones for a reason. Returning to them is so ridiculous. All they do is codify inequality, which is the exact opposite goal of a draft. Father-Son nonsense likewise. The sooner we get rid of this garbage, the better. Same goes for FA compensation and priority picks/AFL assistance as well.
The only reasonable argument for NGA’s is the ‘keeping the best athletes from non-AFL states playing footy’ one. The belief is that if you can incorporate these kids into elite programs and pathways, and even pay them a small salary (which does happen) for doing so will have them choose AFL over their other sporting options. Seems to work on some level, hard to measure, but I’ll give it that. Why do these elite programs/pathways have to be tied to an individual club though? Why doesn’t the AFL itself run the academies where they are needed and then the graduates from them just go into the open draft pool like everyone else? Solves the ‘talent drain’ problem without compromising the draft

Kids like to identify with a club. My 8 year old attended a swans clinic at school ( Ryan Clarke was there), he thought of himself as "playing for the swans" by attending the clinic.

 

[sydney_gws]

Imagine in 2025 if the AFL just decided to clear the boards. Wooden spoon got Pick 1, no swaps, no NGA, no father sons! The draw also would have to be cleared up. 17 rounds playing every team once, alternating each year for home and away. Home being your own ground not Cairns, Hobart or Ballarat. GWS v Fremantle for ANZAC day anyone. Essendon v Collingwood 5pm Sunday arvo in round 16.
We are stuck in a sporting competition so compromised it’s a joke!

I think to uncompromise quite significantly is easy.
For academy / father sons, reduce discount to 10%, limit picks matching to 3.
So ashcroft gets matched with say 26 27,28, not 5 picks between 35 to 45.
Bring back priority picks, but mid second round so it helps, but little incentive to tank.
If you win 8 or less across 2 years (or 13 across 3 years so if you go 3,7,3 wins you get one) you get Pick 28 as a priority pick.

 

[bluespooner]

No, your argument is stupid because you can't furnish it with examples of what's actually being discussed (for the fifth time, examples of players from anywhere north of Wollongong moving to Victoria? Even one?) and you need to either distort the original point or become increasingly more vague in order to argue it.

Cyril Rioli, was playing school football at Scotch College in Melbourne prior to being recruited.

 

[I Love Lamb]

A cap on NGA players would be nice too. Say 1 every 3 years per team.

That way they would really be forced to make decisions about who to take while the rest go to open market. Still an advantage, just not ridiculous like 3 top 10s in a single draft.

 

[Caligo]

A cap on NGA players would be nice too. Say 1 every 3 years per team.

That way they would really be forced to make decisions about who to take while the rest go to open market. Still an advantage, just not ridiculous like 3 top 10s in a single draft.

Nga is fixed surely? By limiting it to players past 40 surely nobody can complain?

 

[.Shotties.]

Cyril Rioli, was playing school football at Scotch College in Melbourne prior to being recruited.

Okay, we have one. From almost two decades ago, predating the academies.

 

[Only Forwards]

If you want to uncompromise the draft you need to rid it of all the potential ways in which it can be compromised.

Which would effect:

• Father Son selections
• Academy selections (northern and NGA)
• Draft Assistance
• Free agency compensation

To fix some of those you'd aslo need an approach around the go home factor. IMO the ability to trade against a players will would sort this (like in MLB), or at the very least change the conversation around it.

Infact the AFL would need to fund almost an entirely new pathway programs into the AFL.

If they fixed it properly, funded academies centrally, amended trading rules to curb the go home stuff, placed limitations on academy selections across the board (both northern and NGA), adjusted the F/S rules, abolished free agency compensation and draft assistance.

You would get somewhere near an uncompromised draft.

The AFL are not going to fix any of those things more than band aid solutions where they don't have to do the heavy funding. So the system is broken and the result is a compromised draft.

It is how it is and how it will continue to be.