News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[sr36]

You shouldn’t get an automatic home ground advantage for an GF and leave your home 4 times through the year but here we are.

The GF point is valid and advantageous. But the H&A mehhhh. We play about 12 games at a neutral venue, about 5 where we have the advantage and about 5 where the ground is a disadvantage. Versus 2 neutral, 10 advantage and 10 at a disadvantage for you guys. No idea why some think our situation of lots of neutral venue games is a big advantage to the team compared with teams where most games there is an advantage - equally distributed. Great for supporters though.

 

[Colonial]

The GF point is valid and advantageous. But the H&A mehhhh. We play about 12 games at a neutral venue, about 5 where we have the advantage and about 5 where the ground is a disadvantage. Versus 2 neutral, 10 advantage and 10 at a disadvantage for you guys. No idea why some think our situation of lots of neutral venue games is a big advantage to the team compared with teams where most games there is an advantage - equally distributed. Great for supporters though.

It ain’t neutral. One of the biggest fan bases in the league, you out number all but a couple of clubs in Melbourne.

That’s just a fact.

 

[sr36]

It ain’t neutral. One of the biggest fan bases in the league, you out number all but a couple of clubs in Melbourne.

That’s just a fact.

What are you proposing?

A supporter cap? No club can have more than 15,000 supporters to even things up.

The draw being based on number of supporters?

Melbourne having to play their big earning home games against us in Echuca? Where we'll still massively outnumber them in the crowd.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Will agree, only if there’s a national under 18s comp and all states have the same spending on grassroots/development with the AFL to pay the difference.

Otherwise nope.

Why would anyone say no to that? That's a great idea

 

[Colonial]

Why would anyone say no to that? That's a great idea

Oh I agree. Would mean a pathways that is second to none nationwide in any sport in Australia.

Just stating that if we want to axe an advantage, one of the only ones northern clubs have, thats what is needed so those two states don’t fall further behind in the grassroots side of things.

 

[Colonial]

What are you proposing?

A supporter cap? No club can have more than 15,000 supporters to even things up.

The draw being based on number of supporters?

Melbourne having to play their big earning home games against us in Echuca? Where we'll still massively outnumber them in the crowd.

Not at all. Just saying that it’s rubbish calling a Pies game at the MCG as neutral.

 

[sr36]

Why would anyone say no to that? That's a great idea

Zones distributed talent really unevenly.

 

[Colonial]

Zones distributed talent really unevenly.

Not talking about zones.

If we have an under 18s national comp where all the states get the same funding and effort put into them then there is no need for an “affected” draft.

 

[sr36]

Not at all. Just saying that it’s rubbish calling a Pies game at the MCG as neutral.

Fair enough, but you brought it up in the context of draft concessions being a levelling measure compared with our home games?

How would you level things for the Dogs? Freo? Etc Who don't get either our big supporter or your drafting advantages.

 

[Colonial]

Fair enough, but you brought it up in the context of draft concessions being a levelling measure compared with our home games?

How would you level things for the Dogs? Freo? Etc Who don't get either our big supporter or your drafting advantages.

No, I brought it up in response to complained about academies.

There are advantages everywhere. Most, through natural causes, are towards Victorian clubs.

Perth clubs, well that’s up to WA supporters to push their case.
Dogs? Please.

The outrage that Academies get is amusing considering that.

And as I said, it’s an easy fix. A national grassroots and under 18s setup. Makes it fair for all.
Fire the VfLers who wish it was the 80s still in the national media of Fox and 7.
Make sure 3rd party deals are equal for all clubs.
Then get the GF out of “MCG only” status and we are well on our way to being a national comp and not a suburban comp with add ons.

 

[sr36]

Not talking about zones.

If we have an under 18s national comp where all the states get the same funding and effort put into them then there is no need for an “affected” draft.

I don't get how that's going to make a difference in terms of the issues that people point out regarding the need for northern club draft access

 

[sr36]

No, I brought it up in response to complained about academies.

There are advantages everywhere. Most, through natural causes, are towards Victorian clubs.

The outrage that Academies get is amusing considering that.

Probably because it's an intentionally created advantage that may already be excessive and will continue to grow over time unless it's adjusted.

 

[Colonial]

I don't get how that's going to make a difference in terms of the issues that people point out regarding the need for northern club draft access

If the northern states, all states really, have the same setups and funding then there will be no need for academies and their advantages.

 

[Colonial]

Probably because it's an intentionally created advantage that may already be excessive and will continue to grow over time unless it's adjusted.

Wether intentionally or not advantages are advantages.

Although the Vic ones seem to keep getting called “Tradition”.

 

[sr36]

Wether intentionally or not advantages are advantages.

Although the Vic ones seem to keep getting called “Tradition”.

What I find funny is that clubs like Freo and Port have been sucked into the vicbias stuff and carry on about GF venues. They're not going to make many of everyone is right about the enormous advantage that we all see with the intentional expansionary advantages being given to the Northern clubs and some of the advantages that are naturally there for a big Vic club like Collingwood. Or the financial advantages of their neighbours.

However despite all the carry on it is a bloody even Comp and most teams have gotten to the big dance in the last 20 years - great that those two putrid big Vic clubs haven't.

 

[.Shotties.]

The GF point is valid and advantageous. But the H&A mehhhh. We play about 12 games at a neutral venue, about 5 where we have the advantage and about 5 where the ground is a disadvantage. Versus 2 neutral, 10 advantage and 10 at a disadvantage for you guys. No idea why some think our situation of lots of neutral venue games is a big advantage to the team compared with teams where most games there is an advantage - equally distributed. Great for supporters though.

Also good for travel and experience at the ground where the Grand Final is played.

 

[Colonial]

What I find funny is that clubs like Freo and Port have been sucked into the vicbias stuff and carry on about GF venues. They're not going to make many of everyone is right about the enormous advantage that we all see with the intentional expansionary advantages being given to the Northern clubs and some of the advantages that are naturally there for a big Vic club like Collingwood. Or the financial advantages of their neighbours.

1 advantage to the northern clubs, then all the advantages, sorry “tradition”, that the Vics get.

However despite all the carry on it is a bloody even Comp and most teams have gotten to the big dance in the last 20 years - great that those two putrid big Vic clubs haven't.

If it’s an even comp, why touch the academies.

 

[sr36]

If it’s an even comp, why touch the academies.

This particular advantage is only just beginning to kick in. I think the Northern clubs are going to be extremely over-represented at the pointy end of the ladder for a long stretch - from now until about a decade after the advantage is scrapped.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Zones distributed talent really unevenly.

I know that, the Geelong academy borders are a joke. I am assuming that the borders are adjusted to something fairer

 

[Colonial]

This particular advantage is only just beginning to kick in. I think the Northern clubs are going to be extremely over-represented at the pointy end of the ladder for a long stretch - from now until about a decade after the advantage is scrapped.

As I said, you literally called the comp even.

Yet you want to take our one advantage away, which would make it not even as you don’t seem to want to touch the inherent Victorian ones.

 

[sr36]

As I said, you literally called the comp even.

Yet you want to take our one advantage away, which would make it not even as you don’t seem to want to touch the inherent Victorian ones.

I don't think the advantage is close to fully kicking in yet, so it's impact is still unknown. Draft advantages accumulate and can last for a very long time - Collingwood are still benefitting from a draft concession from 2005. Geelong 2006.

I'm suggesting that this advantage will risk equality. I don't think we'll see any Northern club miss too many final series over the next decade +. That's my prediction. Obviously I could have it way wrong.

I've spent a couple of decades enjoying two of the biggest Vic clubs being basketcases, so I'm not as convinced regarding these massive victorian advantages creating an unbalanced comp.

Plus I don't even want to stop the academies - I think they're a great way to grow a passionate supporter base as much as anything else. I'm just suggesting changing the price.

We've changed the price of access to Father Sons or academy picks about 6 times in 25 years - often for good reason. So no idea why people seem to think the current model is ideal and go on the attack when someone suggests it should be changed, particularly as it seems pretty clear that the pricing is out of whack - Collingwood paid 4 picks in the 40s for Nick Daicos FFS - it's like those ridiclous trade suggestions that you used to read all the time before they became a complete joke ridiculed by everyone - 4 of our reserves players for your star. It's ridiculous.

 

[Jirik13]

This particular advantage is only just beginning to kick in. I think the Northern clubs are going to be extremely over-represented at the pointy end of the ladder for a long stretch - from now until about a decade after the advantage is scrapped.

From GC point of view Collingwood fan concerns about academy advantages are laughable.

Just compare Collingwood F/S and NGA players with Suns academy players on the lists over the Suns existence and their quality.

Don't forget that if Suns by some miracle finish one day top 4 they would be able to match only 1 bid in 1st round.

Then compare travelling, financial resources, 3rd party deals, TV exposure, MCG crowd. When Collingwood plays at Carrara, min 2/3 of crowd are Collingwood supporters. Suns players are actually booed. Talk about home crowd advantage.

Right now, I would say Suns still need as much assistance as possible. If they don't make finals in next 2 years you could see another cycle of players leaving (not that it would be bad for Victoria big clubs like Collingwood who ultimately benefit from Suns players exodus).

And you worry about Northern clubs could take over AFL Let that happen first.

 

[Colonial]

I've spent a couple of decades enjoying two of the biggest Vic clubs being basketcases, so I'm not as convinced regarding these massive victorian advantages creating an unbalanced comp.

And that’s the point.

The natural advantages are so ingrained, “tradition”, that you can’t see it.

To show it as point blank, when the Vics didn’t win a gf in 6 years there were inquests into why.
We have had 2 Non vic win since 2010 and supposedly we live in great times nothing to see here.
The AFL media lose their shit over flight and hotel prices when vic clubs have to travel interstate demanding AFL involve themselves, but the non vic do it year in year out and not a peap.

As I said, ingrained into the comp.

Our 1 advantage in the northern states is our academies and so far they haven’t been the end of a rainbow goldmine that traditional states have been going off about since they were brought in, not even close. But still we get the grabbing of the pearls fear mongering.

 

[SSSSSS]

And that’s the point.

The natural advantages are so ingrained, “tradition”, that you can’t see it.

To show it as point blank, when the Vics didn’t win a gf in 6 years there were inquests into why.
We have had 2 Non vic win since 2010 and supposedly we live in great times nothing to see here.
The AFL media lose their s**t over flight and hotel prices when vic clubs have to travel interstate demanding AFL involve themselves, but the non vic do it year in year out and not a peap.

As I said, ingrained into the comp.

Our 1 advantage in the northern states is our academies and so far they haven’t been the end of a rainbow goldmine that traditional states have been going off about since they were brought in, not even close. But still we get the grabbing of the pearls fear mongering.

I don't take in as much footy media anymore but I cannot ever recall hearing any uproar in Victoria about hotel and flight costs for Vic clubs.

 

[Colonial]

I don't take in as much footy media anymore but I cannot ever recall hearing any uproar in Victoria about hotel and flight costs for Vic clubs.

Literally last year