News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[LukeParkerno1]

In the context of academies or the northern states, increasing participation levels and getting kids drafted from those states?

Which haven’t really increased enough yet. I’d love to get to a stage we don’t need academies would make me so happy. We aren’t there just yet. Maybe in 20 years

 

[Bostonian]

Vic clubs are getting access to all the players and the added bonus of putting chequebooks and boats in front of players to move.

No they aren't.

We don't have access to a significant number of players.

They will come up with a compromise that’s across all 3 forms, the Swann has literally said that- whatever change it will be across the board. That’s fair and it’s fine.

What that is is who knows what, a lockout maybe? I doubt they go a whole round that’s opening a can of worms but top 3/5 go for it.

The other option was weirdly an idea that Jimmy Bartel said, give every side two first rounders each year but I’m not sure what that actually does

Even if you lose the odd kid from your academy the chances you get them back and in more regular numbers is far far higher than a club who loses a father son because of it.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

No they aren't.

We don't have access to a significant number of players.


Even if you lose the odd kid from your academy the chances you get them back and in more regular numbers is far far higher than a club who loses a father son because of it.

It’s not the ones in the academy that are the issue. You have blokes saying they will only play for Vic clubs every single year. So as it is we can’t draft half the players. Then you have players nominating one clubs and bending clubs over a barrel. Victorian clubs barely have to deal with go home factor or any players not wanting to play for them.

Have you even lived in Sydney or Brisbane? They are league mad in 80% of the state. The academy helps get a few percent of these players that’s all. It’s not as if we are holding opening clinics in Vic Metro and saying come to the academy or something

 

[Bostonian]

It’s not the ones in the academy that are the issue. You have blokes saying they will only play for Vic clubs every single year. So as it is we can’t draft half the players. Then you have players nominating one clubs and bending clubs over a barrel. Victorian clubs barely have to deal with go home factor or any players not wanting to play for them.

Have you even lived in Sydney or Brisbane? They are league mad in 80% of the state. The academy helps get a few percent of these players that’s all. It’s not as if we are holding opening clinics in Vic Metro and saying come to the academy or something

I don't recall many players at all saying that.

The fact most interstate teams contain Victorian players would suggest it's not that much of an issue.

You mean some Victorian clubs.

Other Victorian clubs have the league's worst issues of getting players to go to them.

Having to pay ridiculous overs just to get a look in.

Do you really think you're worse off than a North Melbourne for being able to attract top line talent?

 

[sydney_gws]

I don't recall many players at all saying that.

The fact most interstate teams contain Victorian players would suggest it's not that much of an issue.

You mean some Victorian clubs.

Other Victorian clubs have the league's worst issues of getting players to go to them.

Having to pay ridiculous overs just to get a look in.

Do you really think you're worse off than a North Melbourne for being able to attract top line talent?

Should have an afl official attend interviews ( like other jobs, and HR rep basically). That will stop questions about not leaving home.

 

[Trent from barwon Heads]

Should be still allowed father son and northern academies, just get rid of the jamarra rule. You just need to match the pick, not points.

The afl needs to be harder on player managers and dealing with clubs, allow clubs to trade players who didnt sign as free agents and not allow teams to talk to contracted players. Would make a far better comp

 

[Jeremias]

Hard to agree with this one specifically, Walker only declared in mid July that he had the intention of choosing carlton (fatherson) over richmond (nga) as he was eligible for both. By all means you can say he was never going to richmond (and that may have been the case) then it should have been made earlier, before last draft for example.

Has any father son prospect nominated earlier than Walker?

You say he “only” declared in mid July, as though 16 months prior is totally normal.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I don't recall many players at all saying that.

The fact most interstate teams contain Victorian players would suggest it's not that much of an issue.

You mean some Victorian clubs.

Other Victorian clubs have the league's worst issues of getting players to go to them.

Having to pay ridiculous overs just to get a look in.

Do you really think you're worse off than a North Melbourne for being able to attract top line talent?

It happens every year you only have to hear what recruiters say from northern clubs. You don’t think GWS wanted to draft Wingard? Weddle similar for us, it happens more than you think.

The AFL don’t want retention issues that’s the main reason for northern academies

They will come up with a compromise that suits all 3 ie F/S academy and nga

 

[TradeDraft]

Been a Big Rort by the Northern States for quite awhile

 

[TradeDraft]

Vic clubs are getting access to all the players and the added bonus of putting chequebooks and boats in front of players to move.

The Rejects the Northern Acdamey teams don't want

 

[GenericUsername202]

Been a Big Rort by the Northern States for quite awhile

Says the collingwood supporter. Toby Greene has travelled more in 1 season than Pendlebury has in his entire career. So you would know all about rorts.

 

[TradeDraft]

Says the collingwood supporter. Toby Greene has travelled more in 1 season than Pendlebury has in his entire career. So you would know all about

Hey with our Record Inter-State I be fine with that and rather we played our Home Game that is at Docklands play that Interstate

AFL has come from the VFL and Victoria is the main State of the League where majority of games are played

How about 2002 and 2003 GF that you beat us in you had Cola which meant have a Higher Salary Cap then us. Does not sound very Fair to me

 

[briztoon]

So the fact they could have had Bewick down at the club for years now, working on his game and forward preparing to get him on the list just gets turfed out the window and all their planning just means nothing?

Many father sons have been at the club for far longer than some blow in from local leagues these northern academies get to claim.

The majority of northern academy kids have been in their academy team since U12's/13's.

You look at last years School Sports Australia U15's QLD team, and every kid selected (and they're selected by school coaches with no ties to the academies) were already in the Suns or Lions academies, except 1 kid (where his exclusion has had local footy politics involved, though he's now finally in the Lions U16 academy class).

 

[Bostonian]

The majority of northern academy kids have been in their academy team since U12's/13's.

You look at last years School Sports Australia U15's QLD team, and every kid selected (and they're selected by school coaches with no ties to the academies) were already in the Suns or Lions academies, except 1 kid (where his exclusion has had local footy politics involved, though he's now finally in the Lions U16 academy class).

And many sons have gone through banners with their fathers on game days.

Far longer attachment to their club than a bunch of academy kids appearing at junior levels.

 

[briztoon]

And yet if the bottom teams get a top 3 pick from your or any Northern academies the chances are rather high they'll just lose them to the go home factor anyway.

You mean the same as what was happening to GWS and Gold Coast when they drafted high end Vic kids for the best part of a decade. Or a Vic club drafting a top SA kid. Or what the Vic media spent the whole season talking about Harley Reid.

Academies get 40-50 new kids every year into a system. Father sons are far, far smaller in numbers due to the requirements to be eligible

Seems this system benefits you a lot more than non-academy clubs.

I believe you have no ****ing idea how the northern academies operate going on posts like this.

The whole point of the Northern academies is pretty much exactly the same as the NGA academies, to grow the game and talent pool in different/new markets.

These academies have been running for the best part of a dozen to fifteen years. What they are starting to achieve is the whole point of why they were set up in the first place.

 

[briztoon]

And many sons have gone through banners with their fathers on game days.

Well duh. That still doesn't excuse your statement about "blow ins" being ignorant and bullsh!t.

Far longer attachment to their club than a bunch of academy kids appearing at junior levels.

Thems the rules we play by. The same rules father son academies have to abide by, in terms of when kids can become active in a clubs father son academy.

 

[Bostonian]

You mean the same as what was happening to GWS and Gold Coast when they drafted high end Vic kids for the best part of a decade. Or a Vic club drafting a top SA kid. Or what the Vic media spent the whole season talking about Harley Reid.

Did all those players go back to the same club?

Last time I checked no one Victorian club got them all.

Yet should GC find it's self in that position almost 100% of their academy players would return to them.

See the difference?

I believe you have no ****ing idea how the northern academies operate going on posts like this.

The whole point of the Northern academies is pretty much exactly the same as the NGA academies, to grow the game and talent pool in different/new markets.

These academies have been running for the best part of a dozen to fifteen years. What they are starting to achieve is the whole point of why they were set up in the first place.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea how to do maths nor understand the different criteria each academy requires.

Father son has specific requirements.

So does NGA.

Tell us exactly what requirements your academy has for players to join it?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Let’s not pretend we can’t see why you are against the lockouts though. That’s fine so I assume you won’t mind if it is kept the same till after the Tasmania drafts. You can’t want to benefit next year and then cut the academies because they don’t benefit you.

A system that’s the same for everyone is FAIR and that’s what the people in charge are doing coming up with a fair and honest compromise which is likely in the form of a lockout or a protected area.

The club will still have the opportunity to trade up to that selection ie through the draft/trade period. So you want Walker that’s fine trade up to pick 1-3

 

[briztoon]

How to Vic clubs get the rub of the green?

Top Vic kids pulling the want stay home card before the draft. That's been far more prevalent in the last 5 years.

Or then pulling the want to go home after being drafted. That decimated the two QLD teams for much of the 2010's.

Vic (and SA) clubs publicly tweeting on draft night that they will come for kids just drafted to a northern club 10 minutes earlier. And that's after "warning" northern clubs not to draft top rated kids from their State before the draft.

60% of kids drafted each year come from Victoria. The vast majority of players moving between states, are players heading in to Victoria, as opposed to leaving Victoria.

If you're a non Victorian team that is down the bottom of the ladder, it is really, really hard to attract very good talent to your club.

Travelling has zero to do with drafts.

How many new academy players are added each year into your academy system?

20-40 new each year in an age group?

How is that even comparable to father son or NGA when there's zero requirements for academy juniors?

NGA father son a team might be lucky to have a few kids be eligible for it.

I believe you need to go talk to Essendon about how many kids are in their academy. As of the last census, 50% of Australians were either born overseas, or have at least one parent born overseas. It's not hard to fill out a full nga team, if a club really wants. It's just most Vic clubs can't be arsed to fund their academy to that extent, when they can just cherry pick the best eligible kids out of the CTL.

But the really simple answer lies in the Victorian pathways. You already have all the development pathways in place in Victoria. There are 16 Coates Talent League teams, plus all the elite private schools. These kids are exposed to elite training form the age of 15. Your father son and NGA academies really are just elite preseason training camps. They contribute far less to a kids development than a northern academy.

The Northern academies have 30 to 40 kids in each age bracket, because they're basically a CTL team. A TEAM. These teams play the northern academy series at the same time as the opening rounds of the CTL, then play in the CTL when the Vic private school competition starts.

The top kids in these academy teams get the same preseason training that top father sons or nga kids get in Vic, with their club. Lions had 1 academy kid train with the AFL team this preseason, Annable. Similarly the top kids start playing in the VFL after the Championships are finished.

You'd agree there's a better chance of finding a good player with large numbers than a few?

Of course. What's stopping your club funding a fully developed NGA team in each age group?

 

[Elixuh]

Thank goodness that it’s now clear for all to see that northern academies have zero to do with growing the game and are only about delivering high end talent to 4 clubs.

At least we can call a spade a spade now without Brisbane, swans, giants and suns fans trying to convince us it’s a circular saw

If they want to “grow the game” let the afl fund the academies so anyone can draft the graduates.

Where does this talent exist if the academies don’t? Do you understand what grow the game means? Especially if the northern clubs are funding it.

 

[briztoon]

How do you make a level playing field when some clubs have access to significantly more young players than the other clubs?

Pick one Northern Academy club, anyone, don't care which, and go and list all their academy selections for the last 10 years. I'll give you a helping hand. Sydney have had the most first round academy kids, followed by Gold Coast, then Brisbane, then GWS.

I guarantee any single CTL team has produced more draftees than any one northern academy team.

Sheet, Essendon's nga academy is producing more draftees in the two most recent drafts (2024 & 2025) than GWS's academy, or Brisbane's, and equal to Sydney's.

More high end Vic kids in the last 5 years have pulled the "don't draft me interstate" card, than any one academy club has produced draftable kids. But the Vic media and the AFL don't talk about this, because it's a bad look for the AFL, even if the Vic media portray the kid as "brave". But the northern academy recruiters talk about it, they talk about it to our fans at draft functions, they talk about it on Gettable but Twomey doesn't press the discussion when it's raised.

Where's the level playing field?

 

[hammer180]

Has any father son prospect nominated earlier than Walker?

You say he “only” declared in mid July, as though 16 months prior is totally normal.

The original argument that i disagree with is that calrton have used picks in preparation for walker.
I don't understand how you could considering he was still eligible for both carlton fatherson and richmond (nga).
As he still had not made a choice in last yrs offseason if either calrton or richmond made draft decisions based on him in next yrs draft you can't actually prepare, however as the decision has been made in this season you could prepare for it. If the rules therefore change before this offseason starts you can't really use the excuse of we have invested draft capital and made draft decisions prior to this offseason as he had not committed.

 

[briztoon]

No they aren't.

We don't have access to a significant number of players.

What's a significant number. List an actual percentage. 10%, 20%, 30%.

There are 8 northern academy kids talked about this year as draftable. There were 5 drafted last year 2024, but only 3 went to northern clubs, 2 weren't matched. There were 5 drafted in 2023.

I'm talking across the whole draft btw, not just first round.

There was 1 in 2022. There was 1 northern academy kid in 2021, compared to 3 NGA kids and 5 father son kids, none of whom went to a northern club.

When you look at actual numbers over a set period, your argument just doesn't hold water. You can pick the last 5 years, or last 10 years, there just aren't the numbers to back up your hysteria.

And for those who follow the northern academies, we know that Gold Coast's academy, the most successful over the last 3 years, have sweet f.a coming through their academy in the next 3 drafts (barring a late developer surprising us all).

Even if you lose the odd kid from your academy the chances you get them back and in more regular numbers is far far higher than a club who loses a father son because of it.

There's simply no evidence to prove this. More academy players have left their clubs as mature players (particularly form GWS) than have "come home".

 

[briztoon]

Did all those players go back to the same club?

Last time I checked no one Victorian club got them all.

Yet should GC find it's self in that position almost 100% of their academy players would return to them.

See the difference?

There's no proof to this assertion. How do you know Gold Coasters would come home?

Riewoldt never did. Dayne Beams grew up on the Gold Coast, returned to QLD to Brisbane because his dad was in a Brisbane hospital, and when his dad sadly passed, he went back to Victoria. But he's from the Gold Coast.

That's like saying all Vico's will return to Victoria. They don't. We get enough who stay up here after they finish playing (or coaching).

I'm pretty sure you have no idea how to do maths nor understand the different criteria each academy requires.

I'm pretty sure I've demonstrated a greater understanding of math, statistics, Australian population origins via the ABS, and common sense in subsequent replies to you.

Father son has specific requirements.

So does NGA.

Tell us exactly what requirements your academy has for players to join it?

1) Know how to play football.
2) Be good at football.
3) Have mum & dad willing to pay the academy fees for you make up the numbers to support the 1 or 2 kids who are good at football.

 

[the big lebowski]

Where does this talent exist if the academies don’t? Do you understand what grow the game means? Especially if the northern clubs are funding it.

“We want to grow the game…….. as long as it exclusively benefits us. But we are warning you, the minute it doesn’t benefit us, we’ll stop funding it”