AFL seeks compensation for World Cup disruption

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mickctiger said:
I have a fair idea i understand how business works better than most of the soccer fans like you who post here
unless it was in the business interest for FIFA to hold the World Cup at a different time, there may very well be times when that is the case. As a business FIFA will do what gives them the best return. If that means holding the World Cup on mars in Febuary, then guess what ? they will, as a business they would be remiss not to chase the best RoI so the June/July schedule is not as concrete as what you would have us believe? Obviously there were reasons why the scheduling was different then? Why should Australia be any different from those exceptions ? Old saying, never say never. You have just shown that there can be flexibility in the scheduling of the World Cup, and if its condusive to business then obviously it will be scheduled at a different time. But then, as always with the soccer supporters, the story is always fluid, with a ready excuse. "oh it would only be 4 weeks without footy" that changes to 8 weeks, suddenly now its become 10 weeks at least, so you'll forgive me when I'm skeptical of your insistence that the World Cup can only be staged in June/July.
You tell me that this FIFA is all powerful, then tell me that they cant change the schedule because all the leagues play in our summer, and a World Cup would interfere with their schedules (lucky Co-incidence for aLeague that its the AFL/NRL making the sacrifice as its the A-Leagues plaything) Yet we hear from other posters that other leagues play during our winter (so isnt a World Cup not supposed to interfere with their season)
you seem to treat footy fans as stupid, yet we've got a right to question the bid, especially as the story changes constantly, after all it seems that its the non-soccer fans that lose the most in all this. (but were the ones paying for it remeber

So? that doesn't distract from the fact that playing a World Cup in an Australian winter would be a bad look a bad image for your sport.
You know what, i would have thought you soccer people would be keen to explore another scheduling option. Holding it in late August/september for instance would keep everyone happy. Better weather, less disruption to the football season (cheaper as less compo to AFL/NRL that way) you still get your pre cious world Cup (complete with England/Germany riots at fed square after the match;) )

yet you lot seem to want to shut down the football season more, and thats shame really
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Try October after the AFL finals series, could u imagine the GF being played away from the MCG in september for soccer? fk that.
 
mickctiger said:
I have a fair idea i understand how business works better than most of the soccer fans like you who post here
unless it was in the business interest for FIFA to hold the World Cup at a different time, there may very well be times when that is the case. As a business FIFA will do what gives them the best return.
If that means holding the World Cup on mars in Febuary, then guess what ? they will, as a business they would be remiss not to chase the best RoI
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It is not in FIFA's business interest to piss off 80+ national leagues around the world by requiring that they adjust their schedule. Would they have to pay them compensation as well? There would have to be a pretty major benefit to FIFA to do this.

so the June/July schedule is not as concrete as what you would have us believe?
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It's still after when the domestic leagues finish (mid May) and before when the domestic leagues start (mid August). You consider 4 days some sort of major shift in the schedule?

But then, as always with the soccer supporters, the story is always fluid, with a ready excuse. "oh it would only be 4 weeks without footy" that changes to 8 weeks, suddenly now its become 10 weeks at least, so you'll forgive me when I'm skeptical of your insistence that the World Cup can only be staged in June/July.
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Just to clarify, the 4 weeks/8 weeks etc. has been spouted by journalists trying to sell newspapers, nothing more. I'm confident the AFL can continue through the WC playing 2-3 matches a week in the smaller venues.

You tell me that this FIFA is all powerful, then tell me that they cant change the schedule because all the leagues play in our summer, and a World Cup would interfere with their schedules (lucky Co-incidence for aLeague that its the AFL/NRL making the sacrifice as its the A-Leagues plaything) Yet we hear from other posters that other leagues play during our winter (so isnt a World Cup not supposed to interfere with their season)
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Which leagues play during our winter? Maybe the Japanese one? Any which do have a mid-year break built into their schedule.

you seem to treat footy fans as stupid, yet we've got a right to question the bid, especially as the story changes constantly, after all it seems that its the non-soccer fans that lose the most in all this. (but were the ones paying for it remeber
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If I come across as treating footy fans as stupid, I apologise, I just try to correct incorrect statements where I see them. I admit I know s**t all about many aspects of AFL. On this forum there are many people with similar knowledge of soccer, so I'm just trying to offer the correct information where I see misinformation.

So? that doesn't distract from the fact that playing a World Cup in an Australian winter would be a bad look a bad image for your sport.
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The point I was trying to make was that it has been held in a huge variety of climates, and also in some nations with different sporting culture (USA, Japan, South Africa) and it has always been held at the same time of year.
 
McCrann said:
Well, there has to be the demand there in the first place so we don't go around creating a series of white elephants.
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But others are saying "go and build your own stadiums, don't use ours" - so which is it? Regarding the "white elephant" status:

1. Stadium Australia - people say it is a white elephant now - I don't think the 3 AFL matches it gets a year takes it out of "white elephant" territory.

2. Docklands Stadium / 3. Swan St Stadium - if Docklands was built rectangular, yes it would have been a big gamble at the time - but AFL would have Waverley (or another venue if they decided to sell and re-build a new AFL-owned venue), and would be able to continue there. Swan St would not be required if Docklands was rectangular. As of 2011, Melbourne will have four clubs which would use rectangular venues, conveniently two in summer (Victory, Heart) and two in winter (Storm, Rebels).

4. Perth venues - yes, I think the 60-70k convertible stadium + 25k rectangular stadium would be the best option for Perth. Everyone wins. Perth hasn't had a Socceroos game since 2005 because they don't have a suitable venue.

5. Adelaide venue - a new 45k WC venue downsized to 25-30k would not be a white elephant for Adelaide. Adelaide United is too big for Hindmarsh (17k) - and Adelaide doesn't get Socceroos matches because they don't have a suitable venue. If the SA Govt could recognise this and were co-operative, SANFL wouldn't need to be involved.
 

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Chuq said:
But others are saying "go and build your own stadiums, don't use ours" - so which is it? Regarding the "white elephant" status:

1. Stadium Australia - people say it is a white elephant now - I don't think the 3 AFL matches it gets a year takes it out of "white elephant" territory.

2. Docklands Stadium / 3. Swan St Stadium - if Docklands was built rectangular, yes it would have been a big gamble at the time - but AFL would have Waverley (or another venue if they decided to sell and re-build a new AFL-owned venue), and would be able to continue there. Swan St would not be required if Docklands was rectangular. As of 2011, Melbourne will have four clubs which would use rectangular venues, conveniently two in summer (Victory, Heart) and two in winter (Storm, Rebels).

4. Perth venues - yes, I think the 60-70k convertible stadium + 25k rectangular stadium would be the best option for Perth. Everyone wins. Perth hasn't had a Socceroos game since 2005 because they don't have a suitable venue.

5. Adelaide venue - a new 45k WC venue downsized to 25-30k would not be a white elephant for Adelaide. Adelaide United is too big for Hindmarsh (17k) - and Adelaide doesn't get Socceroos matches because they don't have a suitable venue. If the SA Govt could recognise this and were co-operative, SANFL wouldn't need to be involved.
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Given the amount of money the AFL put into docklands, and the fact that it will ultimately be owned by them, it would have been very unlikely that it be built as a rectangle. Though I'm sure someone had the idea out there , like the Grollo tower.

They are also talking about a new stadium in Townsville. Tell me a 45K seat stadium in Townsville would not be a "white elephant"
 
Townsville(and north Queensland also) is growing rapidly. For example Townsville has a projected population of 270K by 2031. Townsville's current stadium is 26,500, for a city of a size of 160K. a 45K for wont be as white elephant as it sounds, since 2 teams(perhaps more in the future) will be using it.

mickctiger: As Chuq said, its in FIFA best interest to the world cup during Europes off season. that is their max return on investment. As long as the weather is not extreme(etc Russia winter, Arab summer), FIFA wont mind. Its not going to look bad(etc: it doesnt snow), and football/soccer players play in colder. i reckon out of the 2(aus summer, aus winter) i reckon the better football would be played in the winter, as when it is too hot, the tempo of the game decreases, there is more "time wasting" to give the players a break and is really noticeable.
 
siamang said:
Haha yep, **** those diving idiots. The passionate soccer fans here (not many lol) always feel the need to be hooligans. Disgraceful supporter culture.:thumbsdown:
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Yes, absolutely shocking. Here are some news articles about such events:

Sep 14, Police and Central Highlands Football League in alcohol talks
Sep 13, Manslaughter charge after footy brawl
Sep 6, Brawl at Cats and Dogs final
Sep 1, Kids caught in footy team brawl
Sep 1, Police witness plea to footy brawl
Aug 25, Amateur football league to question presidents over brawl
Aug 17, Junior footy player hit with mallet at Tullamarine match
Aug 17, Teen 'hit with hammer' as junior footy game explodes in violence
Aug 10, Ump so 'intimidated' he quit footy game
Aug 8, Nightmare football parent linked to record of violence and abuse
Aug 3, More brawls leave a stain on kids' games
July 25, Flares let off by idiotic fans at Etihad
July 23. Footy coach reported for brawl comments
July 20, Footy parents 'involved in off-field brawl'
July 17, State of Origin brawl wouldn't happen in AFL: Andrew Demetriou
May 30, Footballer punches teen umpire
Apr 10, Footy is passion, but there are limits
Apr 7, AFL moves to ban thugs after bashing
Apr 5, Nathan Jones' father bashed outside MCG
Mar 14, Ugly crowd brawl sours Geelong NAB Cup final win + video
footage
Mar 12, Murder charges over football brawl
Mar 4, Greensborough footbrawl game plan

(and these are only from 2009)

Disgusting behaviour, it is obviously all because of the sport that they play, and not because the individuals themselves are idiots.
 
RobbieK said:
LOL

You seriously don't get it, do you?

The Australian world cup bid is trying to convince FIFA to let us have the competition, it is not the other way round.

FIFA is so much bigger than the AFL, the world cup is the biggest sporting even in the world. The "massive" disruption is 8 weeks in one year of your life.
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No one gives 2 shits about soccer in this country, if you want to watch a bunch of actors parade around go watch a movie or go watch the s**t over there.
 

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Dimenhydrinate said:
Yes, and I'm IGNORING you.
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So if you freely admit that you don't support an Australian Football team, why should you be afforded any credit? Why should anyone listen to your opinions?

Why are you even on a footy site? Surely you have something better to do with your time rather than to come onto a footy site and bad mouth Aussie Rules.
 
Interesting to read of all this boosting of the Soccer World Cup at the expense of our own game - when the stats show the arguments about it being the biggest this, or the biggest that - just don't stack up!

Even in relation to the little old VFL/AFL!

Since 1930, (when the first World Cup was played) it is worthwhile looking at a comparison of attendances at VFL/AFL Finals v World Cup Finals.

Since 1930

World Cup Finals - 708 Matches
Average Attendance - 43,687
Overall Attendance - 30,930,108

Check out the stats here: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/tournaments/worldcup/organisation/index.html

VFL/AFL Finals - 453 Matches
Average Attendance - 68,222
Overall Attendance - 30,904,786

Check out the stats here:
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/summary.html

So, over the last 80 years - since the World Cup began - the FIFA World Cup, the so-called Greatest show on Earth - has only managed to attract a mere 26,000 more people through the gates to its World Cup Finals than the little old AFL! Extraordinary - Especially given there have been 350 more World Cup Finals matches than VFL/AFL Finals Matches!

In fact - Average Attendance at the World Cup Finals has only exceeded VFL/AFL Overall Average Attendance for the past 80 years on one occasion! Crazy!

Who says that the AFL (a demonstrably more succesful crowd-puller than the World Cup) should stand aside given these facts?
 
McCrann said:
Who says that the AFL (a demonstrably more succesful crowd-puller than the World Cup) should stand aside given these facts?
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Love the facts that you left out.

- That half the stadia at any given WC are usually 40000 or less capacity.
- That AFL games are usually played at huge oval stadia.
- That the AFL average attendance is fuelled by a few very big clubs.
 
Dimenhydrinate said:
Love the facts that you left out.

- That half the stadia at any given WC are usually 40000 or less capacity.
- That AFL games are usually played at huge oval stadia.
- That the AFL average attendance is fuelled by a few very big clubs.
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Hang on, but if the World Cup is so important - why haven't all these hosts built bigger stadia to allow the masses in?

Is it perhaps because doing so is uneconomical? I suspect so.
 
McCrann said:
Hang on, but if the World Cup is so important - why haven't all these hosts built bigger stadia to allow the masses in?

Is it perhaps because doing so is uneconomical? I suspect so.
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Whoa, so it's uneconomical to upgrade twelve stadia to 100000? I wouldn't have thought so. :rolleyes:
 
Dimenhydrinate said:
Whoa, so it's uneconomical to upgrade twelve stadia to 100000? I wouldn't have thought so. :rolleyes:
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Whoa, so the guy who has admitted to having no interest in Australian Football is disparaging our game in favour of soccer? I wouldn't have thought so. :rolleyes:

Face it, Aussie Rules paid its way for our 100K capacity ground. Has soccer done so?

I mean, if its such a sure fire money maker, FIFA would have done so already.

Fail again, soccer flog. Piss off if you arent interested in our game.
 
Geech, look what happens when you use one variable to see how big a sport is. It just doesnt work. When was the last time the AFL got 1 billion people watching a single game on TV. nuff said.

And it not economical to build 100K stadiums in host countries to cope with demand. Why? Cause the world cup only is a one off event, and so, that 100K stadium is not suitable for the tenant after the cup has been played. Not many football clubs an use a 100K stadium.

And likewise invinciBlues, if you arent interested in football/soccer, dont post on these threads. It just keeps this sort of rubbish going. Now im going to heed my advice.
 
invinciBlues said:
Whoa, so the guy who has admitted to having no interest in Australian Football is disparaging our game in favour of soccer? I wouldn't have thought so. :rolleyes:

Face it, Aussie Rules paid its way for our 100K capacity ground. Has soccer done so?

I mean, if its such a sure fire money maker, FIFA would have done so already.

Fail again, soccer flog. Piss off if you arent interested in our game.
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It's kind of hard to make a 100k stadium that meets safety standards when they play on a rectangular pitch dumbass.
 
BobbyMorri said:
And it not economical to build 100K stadiums in host countries to cope with demand. Why? Cause the world cup only is a one off event, and so, that 100K stadium is not suitable for the tenant after the cup has been played. Not many football clubs an use a 100K stadium.
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In other words, outside of World Cup finals the game of soccer is not popular enough to justify having a 100k capacity stadium, unless it will be used by the AFL, NFL & Indian cricket after the World Cup is finished.
 
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