News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[Simon_Nesbit]

I'm all for growth of the game - so rather than restrict the Academies - expand it so ALL clubs can now have their own Academy with the same matching rules to apply. Better yet set up a suitable pathway form u16 to u18, State leagues and AFL.

If we use NGA zone (by u18 club) and applied to the top 40 draft picks:

Hawthorn (Eastern and Gippsland) - Duursma, Watson, Windsor, McCabe (FS), Dawson, Archer Reid, Jiath
Richmond (Bendigo and Murray) - Harley Reid, O'Sullivan, Gothard, Wilson, Ryan
"Tasmania" - McKercher, Sanders, Leake
GC - Walter, Ethan Read, Rogers, Graham
WA Clubs - Curtin, Tholstrup, Hardeman, Collard, Edwards, Hall
Carlton (Northern Knights) - Caddy, Green
Bulldogs/North (Rebels and Western Jets) - Croft (FS), Morris, Lual
Sydney - Cleary
Melbourne (Dandenong) - De Mattia, Wilson, Simpson
Geelong (Geelong Falcons) - Moir, Hastie
SA Clubs -McCauley
Essendon (Calder) - NIL
Collingood (Oakleigh) - NIL
St Kilda (Sandringham)


...you don't think the likes of Essendon and Collingwood wouldn't immediately invest millions into the Calder/Oakleigh junior programmes?

 

[tombomb]

I'm all for growth of the game - so rather than restrict the Academies - expand it so ALL clubs can now have their own Academy with the same matching rules to apply. Better yet set up a suitable pathway form u16 to u18, State leagues and AFL.

If we use NGA zone (by u18 club) and applied to the top 40 draft picks:

Hawthorn (Eastern and Gippsland) - Duursma, Watson, Windsor, McCabe (FS), Dawson, Archer Reid, Jiath
Richmond (Bendigo and Murray) - Harley Reid, O'Sullivan, Gothard, Wilson, Ryan
"Tasmania" - McKercher, Sanders, Leake
GC - Walter, Ethan Read, Rogers, Graham
WA Clubs - Curtin, Tholstrup, Hardeman, Collard, Edwards, Hall
Carlton (Northern Knights) - Caddy, Green
Bulldogs/North (Rebels and Western Jets) - Croft (FS), Morris, Lual
Sydney - Cleary
Melbourne (Dandenong) - De Mattia, Wilson, Simpson
Geelong (Geelong Falcons) - Moir, Hastie
SA Clubs -McCauley
Essendon (Calder) - NIL
Collingood (Oakleigh) - NIL
St Kilda (Sandringham)


...you don't think the likes of Essendon and Collingwood wouldn't immediately invest millions into the Calder/Oakleigh junior programmes?

There is a difference between growing the game and equalisation.

There is no argument at all for why Victorian/SA/WA clubs need academies, other than to equalise the northern academies.

 

[nut]

AFL set to change bidding system because Richmond have a full house of picks….
The conspiracy continues.

 

[eastfreo75]

There is a difference between growing the game and equalisation.

There is no argument at all for why Victorian/SA/WA clubs need academies, other than to equalise the northern academies.

1. Reduce go home factor
2. Players better prepared
3. Competition between sports for best kids

 

[Caligo]

There is a difference between growing the game and equalisation.

There is no argument at all for why Victorian/SA/WA clubs need academies, other than to equalise the northern academies.

There are good reasons for southern and western academies. The most persuasive is to make afl more competitive against other sports seeking to scoop up talented 16 year olds. It isnt, or at least shouldn't, be about trying to "equalise" with northern clubs because the north don't have the same talent pathways.

All sports are fighting for the same small number of potentially elite athletes though.

 

[tombomb]

There are good reasons for southern and western academies. The most persuasive is to make afl more competitive against other sports seeking to scoop up talented 16 year olds. It isnt, or at least shouldn't, be about trying to "equalise" with northern clubs because the north don't have the same talent pathways.

All sports are fighting for the same small number of potentially elite athletes though.

Where is the evidence that we are losing all these kids to other sports in victoria, sa, wa who would have been playing AFL if they were attached to an academy?

 

[Caligo]

Where is the evidence that we are losing all these kids to other sports in victoria, sa, wa who would have been playing AFL if they were attached to an academy?

That is literally impossible to prove or disprove. Maybe try asking a question that can actually be responded to? For example, you could ask how many elite 16 year old afl pathway players in VIC end up playing other sports. Not living in VIC I don't know the answer, but working with elite young athletes in Sydney I can tell you that having a way to link elite youngsters to professional clubs has a huge impact in talent retention.

 

[Dangerousfield]

One thing we can be sure of, the A(V)FL will look after the Vic clubs. No changes to be made in 2024 if a big Vic club has a rated F/S in the next draft.

We understand the reason for the northern academies is to grow the game in hostile territory but let's be frank, NGA's are a rort that was cobbled together to shut up the whinging from the Maguires and Newbolds.

Most of the problems would be solved by steepening the draft points curve and have points extinguish around pick 40

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

One thing we can be sure of, the A(V)FL will look after the Vic clubs. No changes to be made in 2024 if a big Vic club has a rated F/S in the next draft.

We understand the reason for the northern academies is to grow the game in hostile territory but let's be frank, NGA's are a rort that was cobbled together to shut up the whinging from the Maguires and Newbolds.

Most of the problems would be solved by steepening the draft points curve and have points extinguish around pick 40

I think NGA academy's should be phased out, to be AFL run.
Keep the Northern ones , changing discount to 10%, 2 picks only, also adjusting the points curve will fix it.

 

[Lore]

One thing we can be sure of, the A(V)FL will look after the Vic clubs. No changes to be made in 2024 if a big Vic club has a rated F/S in the next draft.

We understand the reason for the northern academies is to grow the game in hostile territory but let's be frank, NGA's are a rort that was cobbled together to shut up the whinging from the Maguires and Newbolds.

Most of the problems would be solved by steepening the draft points curve and have points extinguish around pick 40

Tell us you didn’t read the stickied article without telling us…

Here’s the key quote:

“The AFL does not want to change academy rules, the priority access for the northern academies or father-son rules, but wants to simplify the system and require clubs to use picks closer to the initial bid.”

 

[Caligo]

Tell us you didn’t read the stickied article without telling us…

Here’s the key quote:

“The AFL does not want to change academy rules, the priority access for the northern academies or father-son rules, but wants to simplify the system and require clubs to use picks closer to the initial bid.”

"Require clubs to use closer picks" would by definition be changing the access rules. The statement is inherently false.

 

[Lore]

"Require clubs to use closer picks" would by definition be changing the access rules. The statement is inherently false.

Same players eligible, same clubs getting priority access. Same players go to the same clubs.

There was nothing contradictory about it until you redefined “same access” to mean “same cost”.

 

[Caligo]

Same players eligible, same clubs getting priority access. Same players go to the same clubs.

There was nothing contradictory about it until you redefined “same access” to mean “same cost”.

To me, cost is part of the access. As a simple matter of what words mean. But I do understand your point.

 

[.Shotties.]

Good for the Suns doing all that.

Every other club does similar.

No, the other clubs dont establish and maintain elite talent pathways where there were none previously.

 

[Caligo]

No, the other clubs dont establish and maintain elite talent pathways where there were none previously.

They would if they were allowed to (and were allowed to keep the players they produce like GC does).

 

[.Shotties.]

They would if they were allowed to (and were allowed to keep the players they produce like GC does).

It would also require the complete absence of the WAFL. The Suns academy IS the elite pathway in their area of QLD. Not a particularly well known production area for footballers. Setting up a system for kids already IN an elite talent pathway isn't quite the same thing.

In any case, clubs had a chance to establish a pathway in areas where one was lacking through the NSW rookie scheme and, surprise surprise, did ****-all apart from skimming a few players while complaining about how hard it was.

 

[Obeanie1]

No, the other clubs dont establish and maintain elite talent pathways where there were none previously.

What? They do and have.

The WA clubs are owned by the WAFL mate. Each club pays milliins every year in dividends to fund WA football. And on top of that both teams fund academies, academies that didnt exist before those teams existed. The Eagles is the Naitanui Academy for crying out loud,.

The WA teams do not attract Victorian player trades, the reverse happens, Many WA players chose Eastern states to be traded to. So in that respect the Northern expansion clubs have more opportunities to trade in players, like Dunkley, Daniher, Grundy, Adams, Franklin and Neale. And the Suns and Giants will follow on top of what they already have done.

This debate gets very silent from some posters when a few facts are provided instead of simplistic wide ranging inaccurate opinions.

 

[Obeanie1]

It would also require the complete absence of the WAFL. The Suns academy IS the elite pathway in their area of QLD. Not a particularly well known production area for footballers. Setting up a system for kids already IN an elite talent pathway isn't quite the same thing.

In any case, clubs had a chance to establish a pathway in areas where one was lacking through the NSW rookie scheme and, surprise surprise, did *-all apart from skimming a few players while complaining about how hard it was.

Just stop. You really do not understand how WA football is set up and funded. And obvuously where the AFL owned and operated Suns gets its money from.

The Suns academy has been set up and funded using money from the AFL......i.e. FROM THE PROFITS generated by the successful and profitable clubs.

As I posted the Eagles and Freo pay milliins each year as dividends to fund WA football......the entire state. How much does the loss making Suns fund the QAFL. It doesnt.....because its a loss making club propped up by the successful AFL clubs and profits they generate.

The academies and father sons can stay. Priority access can stay. The discounts and moving quality picks forward and paying for top 10 picks with crap picks needs to end. The northern clubs and clubs getting father sons need to pay closer to market rates so clubs playing in grand finals dont get #1 father sons at half pice. THATs the problem.

PS love the lols from Lions posters BTW. They all know they are laughing until the rort is pulled back to some level of reason. The only thing the AFL could do more for the poor struggling Lions is actually kicking goals for them on grand final day.

 

[go_the_dockers]

What? They do and have.

The WA clubs are owned by the WAFL mate. Each club pays milliins every year in dividends to fund WA football. And on top of that both teams fund academies, academies that didnt exist before those teams existed. The Eagles is the Naitanui Academy for crying out loud,.

The WA teams do not attract Victorian player trades, the reverse happens, Many WA players chose Eastern states to be traded to. So in that respect the Northern expansion clubs have more opportunities to trade in players, like Dunkley, Daniher, Grundy, Adams, Franklin and Neale. And the Suns and Giants will follow on top of what they already have done.

This debate gets very silent from some posters when a few facts are provided instead of simplistic wide ranging inaccurate opinions.

SA and WA clubs are always the last clubs to get an advantage.

Vic clubs get Father son, Home grand final, full NGA access
NSW and QLD get academies.

We are at so much of a competitive disadvantage it is not funny. No wonder Vic clubs are dominating.

 

[Obeanie1]

SA and WA clubs are always the last clubs to get an advantage.

Vic clubs get Father son, Home grand final, full NGA access
NSW and QLD get academies.

We are at so much of a competitive disadvantage it is not funny. No wonder Vic clubs are dominating.

I like bringing up the massive difference of Vic players happy to be traded to Qld and NSW clubs but only fringe players getting paid overs will consider a move West.

The 'disadvantaged' expansion clubs are now destination clubs for top level Vic players. Some are now retiring in the Northern states and their kids become academy players for the poor Northern expansion clubs like Blakey did. And Hodge's boys next?

So these massive disadvantages northern clubs keep sprooking about...........are disappearing at a rapid rate. They were real 10 years ago but not now.

 

[ohmygewd]

Time to get rid of the draft and go to zones.

1. Competition for young talent - this year the Swans lost a kid to Rugby league.
2. Homesickness - players already slide in the draft and corrupts the integrity of the draft.
3. Academy works and will increase player strength.
4. Teams can turn around quicker in a rebuild with free agency.


Possible Zones
1. 20th team - Perth Panthers - West Perth, East Perth and Perth (by the way, Colours Black, Red and Blue)
2. Tasmania - Tasmania, Ireland and East Gippsland
3. GWS - Riveria, Canberra and Western Sydney
4. Swans - NSW regional. Sydney city excluding Western Syndey
5. Gold Coast - Gold Coast and other parts of Queensland
6. Brisbane - Brisbane and other parts of Queensland
7. Port - Country SA, NT and part of Adelaide.
8. Adelaide - Parts of Adelaide
9. West Coast - Claremont, Subiaco and Swan Districts
10. Fremantle - East Fremantle, South Fremantle and Peel

Victorian teams go back to city and country zones.

AFL teams will allocate resources from recruitment to development.

The draft was created to elminate zones and all the headaches that came with it - is the player zoned to the first club that kid played for, or is it postcode, where his/her mum or dad lives, is it the school that he/she attends, if the kid plays for a school in a different zone than his local footy do you need a clearance, do we cap clearances both monetary and volume wise...good old brown paper bags

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

What? They do and have.

The WA clubs are owned by the WAFL mate. Each club pays milliins every year in dividends to fund WA football. And on top of that both teams fund academies, academies that didnt exist before those teams existed. The Eagles is the Naitanui Academy for crying out loud,.

The WA teams do not attract Victorian player trades, the reverse happens, Many WA players chose Eastern states to be traded to. So in that respect the Northern expansion clubs have more opportunities to trade in players, like Dunkley, Daniher, Grundy, Adams, Franklin and Neale. And the Suns and Giants will follow on top of what they already have done.

This debate gets very silent from some posters when a few facts are provided instead of simplistic wide ranging inaccurate opinions.

What should change then so WA clubs aren't disadvantaged then?
Isn't distance the main problem, it would be very hard to change that ( unless WA clubs get 12 home games in a 22 round season, that means the other 16 need to have one less home game severy 8 seasons). I doubt they agree to that though.

 

[Obeanie1]

What should change then so WA clubs aren't disadvantaged then?
Isn't distance the main problem, it would be very hard to change that ( unless WA clubs get 12 home games in a 22 round season, that means the other 16 need to have one less home game severy 8 seasons). I doubt they agree to that though.

Simple. Stop allowing teams playing in grand finals and with lists peaking from double dipping.

They don't get discounts and they pay in draft picks what players are actually valued at in reality.

Also allow ANY club who is bottom 4 to access their academy kids. Not from pick 40 onwards after other clubs swooped in and taken them with picks in the late 30's.

End of the day the reasons for ANY clubs to get priority access at a discount need to be linked to their current level of competitiveness. If they are playing in grand finals why should they continue receiving so much additional help when they no longer need it?

It's like continuing paying welfare payments to someone who now has a job and is back on track. They are earning more than others who aren't on welfare payments. So why keep providing the assistance.

Welfare is for people who need it. Not those who don't. I'd just like the AFL to come out and state what needs to happen for the priority access to stop. What kpi needs to be met? A premiership? Two.....three? Making top 4 two years in a row? What?

 

[sr36]

Sure, success helps a great deal. But to say that academies has very little to do with growing game is not objective view, IMO.

You should check out regularly what Suns and its academy actually do in communities. Suns now runs thousands kids through academy from if I remember correctly 11-12 years old, organizing camps, recruitments events all over the place, organizing coaches clinics, setting up additional staff in the regions, organizing training, visits, etc.

Always was wondering what clubs actually do withing NGA academies.

They'd be nuts if they didn't do all of this. More important than getting priority access to players in the draft is building a supporter base. It's a great way of doing that.

 

[.Shotties.]

What? They do and have.

No they haven't. The WAFL and its pathays predate both AFL clubs.

The WA clubs are owned by the WAFL mate. Each club pays milliins every year in dividends to fund WA football. And on top of that both teams fund academies, academies that didnt exist before those teams existed. The Eagles is the Naitanui Academy for crying out loud,.

Hahaha. Mate, your owners maintaining pathways that existed before your club is not the Eagles setting up and maintaining the sole elite talent pathway in the state.

And on top of that both teams fund academies, academies that didnt exist before those teams existed. The Eagles is the Naitanui Academy for crying out loud,.

Again, this is not setting up and maintaining THE sole elite talent pathway in the state. This is an NGA. It's mostly kids who are already in a pathway.

The Suns academy has been set up and funded using money from the AFL......i.e. FROM THE PROFITS generated by the successful and profitable clubs.

The QLD Government sponsers the Suns Academy. Their branding is all over it.