Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency X - Club has elected not to fill list spot - Davey returning from injury?

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Zach Package said:
I’m not arguing, but there’s no rhyme or season.

The whole Waterman lifecycle makes absolutely zero sense for us, we knew he would require a bit more support aerobically because of the glandular, but we also know our strength and conditioning program is from the Stone Age.

So questionable to draft him in the first place given he’s a bit of a special case, more questionable to try him as a midfielder, but only once a month so we don’t really learn any more about him and now questionable to have him as someone who is a marginal ‘last decision we make guy’ as a 26 year old non best 22 player in a bottom 4 side.

Piss or get off the pot.

Brand I am still not sure about so he gets another contract so we can work that out IMO.
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I suspect Waterman is a case of a guy who just didn't build the required tank to actually become what they'd hoped.

Leads well, marks well, kicks straight which are all ticks, but doesn't have the tank to be a genuine AFL standard medium forward or play midfield, and doesn't appear that he'll develop it post-glandular unfortunately.
 
Milanista28 said:
Jack Ross will get starved of genuine inside mid time with Taranto and Hopper, reckon we could make a play?

187cm
Click to expand...

eth-dog said:
Admittedly I haven't seen much of him but is he particularly good at anything? Every time I watch him he just seems like he doesn't do a whole lot in general
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Jack Ross's height is misleading, his head is enormous. He's only actually 177cm tall with a normal sized melon.
 
Our write up of Stocker in his draft year

Having finished his schooling in 2017, Liam Stocker has had the benefit of absolute TAC Cup commitment this season and has flourished. The Haileybury product, who could follow in the footsteps of fellow 2017 alumni Andrew Brayshaw, Luke Davies-Uniacke and Aidan Bonar to be drafted in the first-round, has the rare ability to break games open. The 183cm midfielder initially caught the eye in round three of the TAC Cup season, with a damaging 21-disposal, two-goal display against the Calder Cannons at home. Stocker’s ability to rest deep in the forward-line and hit the scoreboard was also particularly notable in Round 3 of the TAC Cup, drawing comparisons to Richmond champion Dustin Martin as a result.
Missing Vic Metro’s crusade in the National Under 18 Championships with a broken jaw, Stocker’s name did not seem to feature in the conversation of 2018’s top prospects mid-year, but a dominant back-end of the TAC Cup season saw that change. The inside midfielder plays with aggression and tenacity and contributes in all facets of the game, having averaged 23 possessions (12 contested), six clearances, five inside 50s and five tackles from 12 games this season. His status as an elite midfielder became apparent when the Dragons hosted the Pioneers, gathering 35 disposals together with four marks, five tackles and a goal. The St Kilda supporter capped off a memorable season with the coveted Morrish Medal, recognised as the TAC Cup’s best-and-fairest, three votes clear atop the leader-board. It puts the talented junior cricketer in favourable company, with Richmond cult-hero Jack Higgins, Demons ball-magnet Clayton Oliver and Brisbane Lions Rolls-Royce Hugh McCluggage the past three recipients of the award.

STRENGTHS
Aggression
Explosiveness
Leadership
Vertical jump
Size

Stocker’s aggression, explosiveness and tenacity combine to make the oft-used term ‘midfield bull’ quite the fitting description, while he leads through his commanding voice and — more importantly — his actions. Indeed, while Stocker can often be heard ordering direction, his unrelenting attack on the ball is likely to inspire teammates wherever he plies his trade in future. In addition, the midfielder’s versatility, on show when resting at full-forward, is another feature likely to catch the attention of multiple clubs ahead of the 2018 draft. The type of player that makes opposition defences nervous, he presented a constant threat when deployed out of the goal-square. At 83 kilograms, Stocker’s size caused headaches for opposition midfields throughout the season, making him an AFL-ready prospect for 2019.
Stocker showed through the finals series he can play through adversity, which he did while having a clear shoulder injury. He has shot up the draft boards from last season to this year after a huge pre-season and his consistency since coming back from his broken jaw has been noticeable. It is how he earned the Morrish Medal with many best on grounds through Sandringham's season which was mixed, often playing in a team missing its top players through school football, but his game never wavered. Even upon their return, Stocker's consistency remained. He also achieved a massive 85cm running vertical jump at pre-season testing, which is why he can play effectively up forward.

IMPROVEMENTS
Endurance
Durability

Stocker’s game does not present any obvious flaws, but by his own admittance, his endurance could improve, stating “I’m not really fit enough to be an outside mid, so I base myself on the inside and try to get as many clearances as I can”, after being presented the Morrish Medal. While seen as an inside midfielder — focusing on winning contested ball ahead of running all day — his endurance may yet need to improve for AFL level next season. Another potential question mark could arise over Stocker’s durability, who apart from a broken jaw, sustained multiple niggles throughout the season, playing just 12 of a possible 20 TAC Cup games.

DRAFT PROJECTION: 10-25
SUMMARY
Liam Stocker is simply one of the best midfielders in this year’s draft crop. He appears ready to play against men and would be a strong chance to do so at AFL level in 2019 if he can get his body right early on with a full pre-season behind him. Stocker is an elite inside midfielder who bursts out of stoppages, is dangerous when drifting forward, tackles hard and takes marks around the ground. His ability to have an influence throughout four quarters is very good and expect him to be high on a lot of club's draft boards.
 

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eDPS said:
Our write up of Stocker in his draft year

Having finished his schooling in 2017, Liam Stocker has had the benefit of absolute TAC Cup commitment this season and has flourished. The Haileybury product, who could follow in the footsteps of fellow 2017 alumni Andrew Brayshaw, Luke Davies-Uniacke and Aidan Bonar to be drafted in the first-round, has the rare ability to break games open. The 183cm midfielder initially caught the eye in round three of the TAC Cup season, with a damaging 21-disposal, two-goal display against the Calder Cannons at home. Stocker’s ability to rest deep in the forward-line and hit the scoreboard was also particularly notable in Round 3 of the TAC Cup, drawing comparisons to Richmond champion Dustin Martin as a result.
Missing Vic Metro’s crusade in the National Under 18 Championships with a broken jaw, Stocker’s name did not seem to feature in the conversation of 2018’s top prospects mid-year, but a dominant back-end of the TAC Cup season saw that change. The inside midfielder plays with aggression and tenacity and contributes in all facets of the game, having averaged 23 possessions (12 contested), six clearances, five inside 50s and five tackles from 12 games this season. His status as an elite midfielder became apparent when the Dragons hosted the Pioneers, gathering 35 disposals together with four marks, five tackles and a goal. The St Kilda supporter capped off a memorable season with the coveted Morrish Medal, recognised as the TAC Cup’s best-and-fairest, three votes clear atop the leader-board. It puts the talented junior cricketer in favourable company, with Richmond cult-hero Jack Higgins, Demons ball-magnet Clayton Oliver and Brisbane Lions Rolls-Royce Hugh McCluggage the past three recipients of the award.

STRENGTHS
Aggression
Explosiveness
Leadership
Vertical jump
Size

Stocker’s aggression, explosiveness and tenacity combine to make the oft-used term ‘midfield bull’ quite the fitting description, while he leads through his commanding voice and — more importantly — his actions. Indeed, while Stocker can often be heard ordering direction, his unrelenting attack on the ball is likely to inspire teammates wherever he plies his trade in future. In addition, the midfielder’s versatility, on show when resting at full-forward, is another feature likely to catch the attention of multiple clubs ahead of the 2018 draft. The type of player that makes opposition defences nervous, he presented a constant threat when deployed out of the goal-square. At 83 kilograms, Stocker’s size caused headaches for opposition midfields throughout the season, making him an AFL-ready prospect for 2019.
Stocker showed through the finals series he can play through adversity, which he did while having a clear shoulder injury. He has shot up the draft boards from last season to this year after a huge pre-season and his consistency since coming back from his broken jaw has been noticeable. It is how he earned the Morrish Medal with many best on grounds through Sandringham's season which was mixed, often playing in a team missing its top players through school football, but his game never wavered. Even upon their return, Stocker's consistency remained. He also achieved a massive 85cm running vertical jump at pre-season testing, which is why he can play effectively up forward.

IMPROVEMENTS
Endurance
Durability

Stocker’s game does not present any obvious flaws, but by his own admittance, his endurance could improve, stating “I’m not really fit enough to be an outside mid, so I base myself on the inside and try to get as many clearances as I can”, after being presented the Morrish Medal. While seen as an inside midfielder — focusing on winning contested ball ahead of running all day — his endurance may yet need to improve for AFL level next season. Another potential question mark could arise over Stocker’s durability, who apart from a broken jaw, sustained multiple niggles throughout the season, playing just 12 of a possible 20 TAC Cup games.

DRAFT PROJECTION: 10-25
SUMMARY
Liam Stocker is simply one of the best midfielders in this year’s draft crop. He appears ready to play against men and would be a strong chance to do so at AFL level in 2019 if he can get his body right early on with a full pre-season behind him. Stocker is an elite inside midfielder who bursts out of stoppages, is dangerous when drifting forward, tackles hard and takes marks around the ground. His ability to have an influence throughout four quarters is very good and expect him to be high on a lot of club's draft boards.
Click to expand...

So not a defender?
 
owen87 said:
Obviously this is speculative, but from what you saw of him at U18 and (if anything) at VFL level, was defence his worst role and Carlton have totally misused his strengths and there's an AFL standard midfielder in there still?
Click to expand...
They used him there because his tank hadn’t improved to the level to play mid, while also having other inside mids who were better.
 
What I would like to see happen from here on.

Main List
  • Trade Francis to Port for #52
  • Re-sign Brand and Eyre to single year deals - They have one more season each to see if they can make it.
  • Re-sign Heppell and Ham for single year deals - Purely there as experience, backup and to strengthen the VFL team. Keeping them on the main list for a single year means we don't need to draft a kid with a late pick for two years we are not keen on. LEAVE to re-sign until after the draft
  • Trade a future 1st to the Bulldogs for Dunkley - No way are we as bad as this year and hopefully this pick moves out to round 8-12.
  • Sign Jayden Hunt for two years - Fit and aggressive player to help drive intensity. Has issues with kicking but will help set standards.
  • Draft Sheezel - Brings the class our forward line sorely lacks.
  • Match bid on Davey - More class alongside Sheezel.
  • Draft Davey - Has tonnes of talent. Try to get his body right.
  • Upgrade Durham from Rookie List
  • Upgrade Martin from Rookie Lise

Leaves the main list at 37

Rookie List
  • Delist Waterman
  • Re-Sign Baldwin for one year.
  • Upgrade Martin and Durham to Main List
  • Draft Munkara - Too talented not try out.

Rookie list at maximum 6


*If Munkara is taken before 40 in the main draft then leave a spot open on the rookie list.
*If Munkara is bid on after 40 in the main draft then match the bid and delist Ham and leaves a spot open on the Rookie List.
 

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BrunoV said:
What are you talking about?

For a start, he served his purpose by providing depth. I reckon his ability to finish probably even won a few tight games last year.

I don't want to go too hard on his rig because it may be that he was not capable of putting the work in, but, looking at him without knowing his story, there was 3-5 expendable kgs from the thighs to the waistline.

Contrast with Martin who hired a PT to get fit before trying out with us or even Hibberd who developed a body builder's physique while playing VFL.

We played Waterman in position. We even gave him consistent minutes in the middle (his pre CF position) where we had a use for his arse.

You're arguing about a caricature you've created.

If this looked like Mitch Hibberd, for example, where we've got a 192cm, 98kg inside mid with a better engine than any mid we have, albeit at one pace, who we didn't play in the middle despite our need for his skillset you'd have a point.

Waterman has been given as much of an opportunity as anyone, despite being a liability defensively.
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My position is essentially that as a club without a strong record of being able to develop players physically we shouldn’t have bothered with him, despite the fact that I think he could be a valuable piece for a club that is not us, and we have continued to dither, and essentially wasted a list spot.
 
Vindicater said:
What I would like to see happen from here on.

Main List
  • Trade Francis to Port for #52
  • Re-sign Brand and Eyre to single year deals - They have one more season each to see if they can make it.
  • Re-sign Heppell and Ham for single year deals - Purely there as experience, backup and to strengthen the VFL team. Keeping them on the main list for a single year means we don't need to draft a kid with a late pick for two years we are not keen on. LEAVE to re-sign until after the draft
  • Trade a future 1st to the Bulldogs for Dunkley - No way are we as bad as this year and hopefully this pick moves out to round 8-12.
  • Sign Jayden Hunt for two years - Fit and aggressive player to help drive intensity. Has issues with kicking but will help set standards.
  • Draft Sheezel - Brings the class our forward line sorely lacks.
  • Match bid on Davey - More class alongside Sheezel.
  • Draft Davey - Has tonnes of talent. Try to get his body right.
  • Upgrade Durham from Rookie List
  • Upgrade Martin from Rookie Lise

Leaves the main list at 37

Rookie List
  • Delist Waterman
  • Re-Sign Baldwin for one year.
  • Upgrade Martin and Durham to Main List
  • Draft Munkara - Too talented not try out.

Rookie list at maximum 6


*If Munkara is taken before 40 in the main draft then leave a spot open on the rookie list.
*If Munkara is bid on after 40 in the main draft then match the bid and delist Ham and leaves a spot open on the Rookie List.
Click to expand...
You do know you have to re-sign players before the draft, right?
 
Zach Package said:
My position is essentially that as a club without a strong record of being able to develop players physically we shouldn’t have bothered with him, despite the fact that I think he could be a valuable piece for a club that is not us, and we have continued to dither, and essentially wasted a list spot.
Click to expand...
I always like to know who (you see) he plays like at AFL level?

Can't think of to many sub 185cm KP players in the AFL that don't really chase and tackle either
 
Vindicater said:
Ahh bugger.

I got the periods wrong. I knew you could sign after trade period.
Click to expand...
You have to re-sign or delist everyone before the draft, but can do it between the two.
 
Yoda_ said:
I always like to know who (you see) he plays like at AFL level?

Can't think of to many sub 185cm KP players in the AFL that don't really chase and tackle either
Click to expand...

I mean, it was pretty clear to me that he was the Stringer backup as a thick, medium forward who could hopefully pinch in the middle a little bit but we are clearly not a good enough club to actually make him into something, and we needed to know that.
 
owen87 said:
Obviously this is speculative, but from what you saw of him at U18 and (if anything) at VFL level, was defence his worst role and Carlton have totally misused his strengths and there's an AFL standard midfielder in there still?
Click to expand...
He played defence due to his tank and still wanted his quality playing AFL level so just tried to find a spot for him. Iirc he never played down back in the 18s but may have if he didn’t miss champs.
 
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