Are you concerned your club/fans have a racism problem?

[queensberryrules]

I am 56 and have suffered very few incidents that could be regarded as racist. The parts of melbourne i grew up in were so multicultural that it never seemed an issue. This is not to say we were not aware of our differences.

I think therefore, when not looking for racism I didn't find it much.

What I find notable today is the principle that racism is predominant and must be found out. This leads to finding racism often where it doesn't exist, and minimising it where it does exist.

 

[Inspecta Gadget]

The only racism problem that exists in Western culture is that the demand for it far outweighs the supply. That's not to say there aren't plenty of racist people in Australia, but if you want to see some real in your face racism, go to India, or the Middle East, or Africa, or China, and stop trying to look for it in places it might not necessarily exist here.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

The only racism problem that exists in Western culture is that the demand for it far outweighs the supply.

Lie.

That's not to say there aren't plenty of racist people in Australia, but if you want to see some real in your face racism, go to India, or the Middle East, or Africa, or China, and stop trying to look for it in places it might not necessarily exist here.

Plenty of racism in the Western world. What's happened is even some of the dumbest racists have worked out they need to cloak it behind creative language and obfuscate to avoid social suicide. Going "But Asia/Africa!" doesn't make racism in Australia less real.

 

[coldlunch]

i feel like Fremantle are among the 'better' clubs, partly because of our really strong history of picking Indigenous players and embracing their culture, but also just the generally younger and more cosmopolitan fan base than some of the bigger or older clubs (not meant as a shot at anyone else), but there is racism everywhere and no club is immune to it.

there is also definitely still some subconscious racism in the way players are talked about by fans and media that is probably still worth examining. think of the superlatives and other language that tends to be applied mostly for Indigenous players, or the fawning by some commentators over players with African heritage whose role and output often doesn't warrant quite as much attention as they get, as compared to other white players. that kind of thing is easy to dismiss as harmless or not an issue because it's largely positive/flattering, but it's all part of the same broader issue, i think. I know I do it myself sometimes... on some level there is always that little bit more excitement about the debut of a Liam Henry or a Michael Frederick than there is for a Sam Sturt or a Tobe Watson, and I'm not really sure where that comes from.

 

[juss]

No, not from my observations.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I couldn’t care less what race you are, either you can play or you can’t. Racism exists across society and in a utopia it wouldn’t but life is not a utopia.
There is no clubs ever that has not had racism rear it’s ugly head.
It is not possible for the AFL to do more to stamp it out.

 

[Scotland]

Footy trumps society as a whole for dealing with indigenous racism in particular because of the over-representation of indigenous players relative to the overall population. I think we have 8 indigenous players out of 40-45. How many people in society go to work with 15-20% indigenous colleagues? You can have all the policies and procedures in the world but having so many great indigenous players is what makes a difference from an AFL perspective. Kids look up to Buddy because he's awesome, not because he's indigenous. Indigenous kids look up to him for both. AFL indigenous round would not have much impact if there were a token handful of indigenous players in the comp.

I do think that footy still stereotypes indigenous players. If you are a non-indigenous player you can be a dour defender or a nuggety on baller or an explosive wingman etc. If you are any good you are the next Judd, the next Ablett, the next Carey, whoever. If you are indigenous there's an expectation of sorts that you'll do flashy things and you can mark it down that if you are any good you will only be compared to other indigenous players. Commentators make me cringe when they do this. Willie Rioli hasn't played since last season and Brian Taylor still can't tell he and Liam Ryan apart. They look nothing alike. He seems to have no trouble with Shuey and Venables who actually look(ed) very similar. I've heard Ryan compared to Cyril Rioli. They aren't all that similar as players.

The footy media also has a habit of patronising indigenous players and other minorities. Every time Majak Daw does something they speak about him like he was plucked from the jungle and handed a footy. His story is brave but FFS he moved to Australia when he was 12 and played TAC Cup. Listen to the bloke talk, if you heard him over the phone you wouldn't know if he was black white or other. Similar applies to indigenous players. Some indigenous players like Liam Jurrah come from a completely different world to most of us that live in cap cities. But many don't. Was it Allen Christensen when he played for Geelong who fielded a question on radio about 'going home' when he grew up in Victoria? Just lazy journalism.

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

I couldn't care less who is/isn't racist. Let's just stick to the facts. If someone is being racially vilified/discriminated against there's an issue. You can't however police peoples inner thoughts, as much as the AFL would love to.

 

[megadeth92]

agree with the OP.

I think players of colour often, while we celebrate the almost sixth sense attributes of a lot of indigenous players, have their downfalls accentuated and at times actually attributed to their race.

Ratugolea is a good example. Ok he’s Fijian not indigenous. But many 21/22 year olds who have shown what he has shown so far, would get the ‘ok he hasn’t come good just yet but key forwards take time and the signs are good if we persist with him’ talk that many similar players have attracted over the years.

instead we’ve got fans already saying he should be cut (I think he’s got 2 years to get it right myself), that he has no game sense, no footy IQ etc.

I don’t know this for sure but I think if he was of a different background that attitude wouldn’t be the prevailing one

If he is an indigenous Fijian then he is indigenous (in Fiji). As opposed to being an Indian from Fiji.

 

[hilly]

If your club doesn't have supporters then they can't be racist.

Kudos, post it on the Bay for some more cheap laughs.

 

[hilly]

Are you sure it's not just you looking for it? As an outsider, i'd say i've heard a lot more criticism of Hawkins over the last 10 years or so than i've ever heard of any of the players you mention. And i'd probably add Selwood to that - in fact i'd say i've heard more criticism of Selwood and his ducking than all 4 of the players you say *combined*. Signficantly more. And those 2 players are genuine A graders.

Now this may be because you're talking just about Geelong fans as opposed to the general football community, and in which case i'd say yes, that's a Geelong problem. But i'd also question your conclusion that it's racism - you mention simply unfair criticism of certain players and then jump the shark by declaring "I'm sure much of this racism....." What evidence do you have of racism?

Someone else has probably addressed it but that's the lot of a player who clearly isn't an out an out superstar. An indigenous man (Aaron Hall) cops a fair bit of criticism because, imo, he has weaknesses. Same story for Jamie Macmillan and Shaun Atley.

Whether there are racist fans or not is another thing.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Everyone is racist to a certain degree

Disagree, sometimes peoples opinions and preferences are construed to be racial, when its each persons right to have them, only crosses over to racism when its and anger hate type thing.

 

[Seeds]

Disagree, sometimes peoples opinions and preferences are construed to be racial, when its each persons right to have them, only crosses over to racism when its and anger hate type thing.

Wtf? That has nothing to do with racism. Racism is the concept of discriminating against someone due to their race. it has nothing to do with anger.

 

[Seeds]

I couldn't care less who is/isn't racist. Let's just stick to the facts. If someone is being racially vilified/discriminated against there's an issue. You can't however police peoples inner thoughts, as much as the AFL would love to.

You cnat police inner thoughts. All you can do is evaluate the evidence and see if tyere are obvious differences based on race.

 

[Bostonian]

And some of the absolute bull dust allegations against McDonald Tipungwuti of arrogance and showboating etc after the attempt to pass to Mosquito - it’s pretty hard to imagine that sort of reaction if a white player did it.

they’d be called silly maybe but arrogant and showboating - no way

Akermanis comes to mind.

 

[Bostonian]

I'd like to think that the love Eddie Betts has for our club shows it's a place and a group of people he feels comfortable with and loves being part of.

Then again as a fan base we embraced the wog club title for a long time.

 

[Seeds]

I'd like to think that the love Eddie Betts has for our club shows it's a place and a group of people he feels comfortable with and loves being part of.

Then again as a fan base we embraced the wog club title for a long time.

Garlett, yarren and betts all left your club within a couple of years Of each other. they all had talent to burn. Betts actually looked like the worse of the lot at one point. all of them leaving just looked off.

 

[sobrave]

Was pretty awkward during the Dreamtime game in Darwin when they'd pan to the crowd and BT would say something like he was watching animals at the zoo.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

I'm not saying its not real because in your head it is real.

This pretty much sums it up

#wokeaf

 

[Milanista28]

Was pretty awkward during the Dreamtime game in Darwin when they'd pan to the crowd and BT would say something like he was watching animals at the zoo.

Yeah I noticed that, Darcy as well, "Look at how excited they are"

 

[goodie23]

Every club has its rotten eggs and problems. Before the Robbie Muir article I would've thought we at least had a decent track record, helped along by having to fight for players like Nicky Winmar. That article was an eye-opener and a sign of progress that still has to be made. Internally we're taking good steps, Finnis's apology was the right move and Ben Long is helping us fabulously in this regard by starting an annual camp for the young players to go to Darwin. Externally such things are always going to be hard.

 

[TP86]

Sure Geelong’s fans troll white players but i have to admit from my personal observation it does appear Cyril Rioli seems to be graded at a much higher level. I think we over emphasize negative attributes of Cyril and understate strengths. at geelong the majority of our whipping boys in recent years have been players used as figurative blunt instruments to beat Cyril Rioli with. varcoe, motlop, christensen and even cockatoo.

We get absolutely bizarre arguments from fans saying that Cyril is the most overrated player of all time that just does not seem to happen for white players. These fans also constantly question Cyril’s effort and hardness at the ball. As an example. Some fans said Cyril was the most overrated player of all time because they question his ability to accumulate an arbitrary number of possessions. Using an example of players who play different roles. Its really bizarre.

im sure much of this racism is subconscious these days. We are doing it without even consciously knowing it. So it is likely innocent in many respects but when looking at it with an open mind and evaluating the players it does seem quite obvious.

is this just a geelong fans issue or does this concern your fans at your club too?

what can be done to stop it if its mostly subconscious? Do we need some affirmative action policies? Further information campaigns? the afls indigenous round was introduced to be one small way to overcome subconscious racism and encourage clubs to play indiginous players if they are considered on the fringe of selection. Its worked at some clubs. Not geelong though.

Is there more that can be done? Obviously we dont want hard policies like conceding that the trolling is idiotic. but what other soft polices can be introduced?

 

[Roobs321]

I like this as a thread where fans can post their observations over the years, but also don't think it is a good club/bad club type thing. There are pockets of cultural problems here and there, every club would have racist fans, and periods when lists awkwardly get a little white. Comes down to leadership and internal standards and getting the right people as well as grassroots influence in order to achieve that supportive environment that allows indigenous players to play to the best of their ability and feel inclusive. Cultural competencies among the playing group and coaching staff also don't hurt to avoid situations like the Adelaide camp or problematic nick names or social isolation.

10 years ago WCE was getting a little white. Sampi & Wirrpanda both left, we drafted Weedon/Stevens who would take time, there were some indigenous rookies getting some cellar-dweller LTI gametime, the commercial media had that cringe fixation on fijian NN 'still learning the game', then at the end of 2011 we drafted in Murray Newman (which didn't work) and traded in Josh Hill. We drafted white during the bulk of the 2000s (although we had a keen eye on drafting the likes of Lewis Jetta, Jamie Bennell, Neville Jetta and Michael Walters). It was probably more noticeable for us because we had grown up with indigenous heroes in the 90s like the Materas, Chris Lewis, etc. and suddenly the best indigenous players didn't include any of our current best-22 players.

The Goodes thing was generally racist imo, although the Eagles penchant for booing generally makes that murkier. I remember Chris Bath had an issue with the Swans booing Lewis Jetta's first game in Eagles colours, but I read that as lacking context, in that I think that was largely due to Jetta being a deserved whipping boy in his last few seasons at the Swans for going missing or squibbing contests. I was in the crowd during that game, and it wasn't racist at all. I think many Eagles would still have chills down their spine from the opening Goodes goal of Q4 in the 2006 GF, and also remember his after-game dismay, so there is that non-racial relationship there. Still, amplified booing during that Goodes period is offensive under the circumstances.

I think there is a tendency to hawk the go home/domestic violence/misdemeanours when they are indigenous. There is the attitude that they have come from some far-off land and different culture and are tied to land and family and are doomed to fail in the big sticks of a place like Melbourne. But when a white kid goes home or rapes someone or drinks inappropriately it isn't a race thing. Also the tendency to view mercurial tall black guys (Fijian/Sudanese/etc) who were born in Australia and grew up in Australia as 'still learning the game', whereas a white ruck or key forward giraffe is 'finding their position' or 'growing into themselves'.

I think a lot of Australians who would have never regarded themselves as remotely racist have also become more nuanced over the course of the AFL era and steadily shed different shades of unconscious bias or lacking cultural competency.

 

[Bostonian]

Garlett, yarren and betts all left your club within a couple of years Of each other. they all had talent to burn. Betts actually looked like the worse of the lot at one point. all of them leaving just looked off.

None of that had anything to do with their indigenous backgrounds.

Betts was a bad call based on financial decisions.

Garlett was traded along with Mitch Robinson for being a total goose off the field.

Yarran had issues off field as well.

 

[Coolangatta]

I'd have to say it isn't so much overt racism as it is myths that need addressing and confronting. For example, someone pays a few hundred to see a specialist. I know an old lady who claims if you were black and came on a boat, you'd get it for free. I'm pretty sure that's bullshit, and it leads to resentment because there are people who believe these things. You can either ignore it and avoid flogging a dead horse because of the backfire effect, or play the Socrates card and ask people to explain their position further and ask for evidence, for a source to verify the validity of their claim. Because "Oh, I heard it from a mate." isn't good enough.