Are you concerned your club/fans have a racism problem?

[Barrysballs]

why would i be biased? Im a white male. Im not even a lefty and usually despise identity politics. If i was biased i would be biased not to see it.

How do you know your not?

You have a bias because your seeing something without any proof.

It might benefit yourself, no it will benefit yourself to do the research it will either confirm or deny it. I know one thing I don't trust my unverified perceptions anymore or rather I know now the mind can not be trusted. There are studies of this.

On SM-A205YN using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Everyone is racist to a certain degree

False

being racist is an innate intuition

Also false. Racism is learned, nobody is born with it.

 

[Coolangatta]

False



Also false. Racism is learned, nobody is born with it.

Well, yes and no. Our environment influences our attitudes and beliefs, yes. Still, ingroup/outgroup bias is also a real thing, and it's a natural tendency for people to make sweeping generalisations about people of other races, religions, classes, and so on, based on their experiences, rather than facts, evidence, and contexts.

 

[Black white]

We cant speak about these issues on club boards without major overwhelming proof because you get absolutely hounded by the club board mods who dont want such topics raised. But we should have a space to voice concerns we have that our club has a culture of racism. This is the year such concerns should be heard.

Sure my club recruits non white players and does all the usual corporate pr stuff to promote diversity but i have to admit from my personal observation it does appear our non white players seem to be graded at a much higher level by both our fans and match comittee. I think we over emphasize negative attributes of these players and understate strengths. at geelong the majority of our whipping boys in recent years have been our non white players. varcoe, motlop, christensen and now esava. Even cockatoo gets blamed for his injuries from a small cohort of supporters.

We get absolutely bizarre arguments from fans asking for them to be dropped that just does not seem to happen for white players. These fans also constantly question their effort and hardness at the ball. As an example. Some fans are currently asking for our leading goal kicker on friday night to be dropped because they question his ability to kick goals. Using an example of the ball not floating correctly through the goals to question his ability to kick goals. Its really bizarre. Riewoldt kicked two floater goals in the same game. Is anyone asking riewoldt to be dropped for not spinning the ball correctly?

Motlop was notoriously questioned for his ability to run both ways despite the fact he used to rack up more miles per game then most other players in the team. Varcoe was constantly questioned as being soft despite being one of the best tacklers in the team. last year we constantly talked up our foward defensive pressure from atkins and rohan even though parfitt was clearly superior in defensive pressure stats up foward. His name would never even be discussed.

im sure much of this racism is subconscious these days. We are doing it without even consciously knowing it. So it is likely innocent in many respects but when looking at it with an open mind and evaluating the players it does seem quite obvious.

is this just a geelong issue or does this concern you at your club too?

what can be done to stop it if its mostly subconscious? Do we need some affirmative action policies? Further information campaigns? the afls indigenous round was introduced to be one small way to overcome subconscious racism and encourage clubs to play indiginous players if they are considered on the fringe of selection. Its worked at some clubs. Not geelong though. We never seem to go out of normal progamming to select indigenous players for indigenous round.

Is there more that can be done? Obviously we dont want hard policies like mandatory race quotas. but what other soft polices can be introduced?

The old floating ball conspiracy.
White boy Texan at our club spins the ball beautifully off the boot , yet gets so much abuse, is it cause he's a yank, tall, can't bend over quickly, inconsistent, a bit soft or is it he is an average footballer.
Varcoe, now at Collingwood gets abuse from our club as he is also inconsistent, lost his pace and prone to floaters too.
It's a fascinating study of floating ball v identity politics.

 

[Power Raid]

It always blows me away that footy fans can resort to racism. Racism anywhere is pretty ordinary but how can you be racist against a race, when every club has had great players from all kinds of backgrounds.

For example, which club hasn't had a great indigenous player? Port's history would be so much poorer if not for SBurger, PBurger, Wingard, Pickett etc etc.

The AFL would be so much poorer if not for the great memories guys like Goodes, Franklin, McLeod, Wanganeen, PFarmer, MStephens


Love and dislike players based on action rather than race........and love 99% of the time!

 

[Black white]

agree with the OP.

I think players of colour often, while we celebrate the almost sixth sense attributes of a lot of indigenous players, have their downfalls accentuated and at times actually attributed to their race.

Ratugolea is a good example. Ok he’s Fijian not indigenous. But many 21/22 year olds who have shown what he has shown so far, would get the ‘ok he hasn’t come good just yet but key forwards take time and the signs are good if we persist with him’ talk that many similar players have attracted over the years.

instead we’ve got fans already saying he should be cut (I think he’s got 2 years to get it right myself), that he has no game sense, no footy IQ etc.

I don’t know this for sure but I think if he was of a different background that attitude wouldn’t be the prevailing one

We'll swap him for

agree with the OP.

I think players of colour often, while we celebrate the almost sixth sense attributes of a lot of indigenous players, have their downfalls accentuated and at times actually attributed to their race.

Ratugolea is a good example. Ok he’s Fijian not indigenous. But many 21/22 year olds who have shown what he has shown so far, would get the ‘ok he hasn’t come good just yet but key forwards take time and the signs are good if we persist with him’ talk that many similar players have attracted over the years.

instead we’ve got fans already saying he should be cut (I think he’s got 2 years to get it right myself), that he has no game sense, no footy IQ etc.

I don’t know this for sure but I think if he was of a different background that attitude wouldn’t be the prevailing one

To help this school project.

Can we swap ratugolea for Cox and Cameron.

 

[Black white]

How do you know your not?

You have a bias because your seeing something without any proof.

It might benefit yourself, no it will benefit yourself to do the research it will either confirm or deny it. I know one thing I don't trust my unverified perceptions anymore or rather I know now the mind can not be trusted. There are studies of this.

On SM-A205YN using BigFooty.com mobile app

Are you telling the truth? How do we know that? how do you know that??

This thread is hilarious.

Floating balls, unverified perceptions.

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

agree with the OP.

I think players of colour often, while we celebrate the almost sixth sense attributes of a lot of indigenous players, have their downfalls accentuated and at times actually attributed to their race.

Ratugolea is a good example. Ok he’s Fijian not indigenous. But many 21/22 year olds who have shown what he has shown so far, would get the ‘ok he hasn’t come good just yet but key forwards take time and the signs are good if we persist with him’ talk that many similar players have attracted over the years.

instead we’ve got fans already saying he should be cut (I think he’s got 2 years to get it right myself), that he has no game sense, no footy IQ etc.

I don’t know this for sure but I think if he was of a different background that attitude wouldn’t be the prevailing one

Pretty sure Hawkins got belted week in week out in random threads prior to 2011.....just fickle supporters and unrealistic expectations....

 

[PhatBoy]

Pretty sure Hawkins got belted week in week out in random threads prior to 2011.....just fickle supporters and unrealistic expectations....

I wasn’t around here then but I generally got the impression it was more opposition fans than our own

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

I wasn’t around here then but I generally got the impression it was more opposition fans than our own

Nah, Hawkins was a whipping boy from within....amongst many others of course....

 

[Wojcinski]

Motlop wasn't just targeted by Geelong fans but all fans. There were and maybe still are plenty of threads dedicated to Motlop and his downhill skiing and willingness to squib the contest. Cats fans were always frustrated because he has/had the ability to be one of the best players in the league. I'd love a Port fan to chime in on Motlop.

I personally don't remember much hate for Christensen. I was always a huge fan and sad he left. Likewise with Varcoe. Regarding Sav I think people understand he is very raw and can often go missing in games, Rohan cops as much criticism. Players like Atkins, Steven, Stanley, both Guthries, Kolo, Henry, Bews and Dahlhaus all cop it on our board.

Up until last year Cam Guthrie was on around his 4th season in a row as the Cats board whipping boy. I think you're just looking for problems where they don't exist.

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

Motlop wasn't just targeted by Geelong fans but all fans. There were and maybe still are plenty of threads dedicated to Motlop and his downhill skiing and
Up until last year Cam Guthrie was on around his 4th season in a row as the Cats board whipping boy. I think you're just looking for problems where they don't exist.

Yeah the Guthrie hate was incredible, I mean I get the sh*t hair, but c'mon....

 

[cats_09]

Pretty sure Hawkins got belted week in week out in random threads prior to 2011.....just fickle supporters and unrealistic expectations....

I would say that Hawkins has really only stopped coping s**t on a regular basis the last couple of seasons

In 2016 there was a thread started based on the idea that he was insignificant, and even suggestions he should be traded while he still held some value - that thread is still alive but with a name change & now used to acknowledge his importance to the team

 

[Black white]

Motlop wasn't just targeted by Geelong fans but all fans. There were and maybe still are plenty of threads dedicated to Motlop and his downhill skiing and willingness to squib the contest. Cats fans were always frustrated because he has/had the ability to be one of the best players in the league. I'd love a Port fan to chime in on Motlop.

I personally don't remember much hate for Christensen. I was always a huge fan and sad he left. Likewise with Varcoe. Regarding Sav I think people understand he is very raw and can often go missing in games, Rohan cops as much criticism. Players like Atkins, Steven, Stanley, both Guthries, Kolo, Henry, Bews and Dahlhaus all cop it on our board.

Up until last year Cam Guthrie was on around his 4th season in a row as the Cats board whipping boy. I think you're just looking for problems where they don't exist.

Some people just love identity politics

 

[backtozero]

Motlop wasn't just targeted by Geelong fans but all fans. There were and maybe still are plenty of threads dedicated to Motlop and his downhill skiing and willingness to squib the contest. Cats fans were always frustrated because he has/had the ability to be one of the best players in the league. I'd love a Port fan to chime in on Motlop.

What do you want to know? We're extremely frustrated by him and by other players that aren't indigenous.

 

[Barrysballs]

Are you telling the truth? How do we know that? how do you know that??

This thread is hilarious.

Floating balls, unverified perceptions.

Now if the OP had led with ageism ie: clubs and fans being biased against older people he would have something to go on. This is easy to prove by looking at players ages and clearly points to the the fact the whole AFL is full of ageists.

Or maybe he could point to the fact there are no real fat forwards anymore , why is that? I hear you ask
Well football has evolved and so has game style which now requires profesional athletes, meaning we have a bias against fatties. Also you could argue this trend has continued and grown (unlike the waistlines) over the last 30yrs which points to the fact the AFL is built on Systemic Fatism.

I sure hope the players realise they benefit from their young, fit, privilege

 

[Wojcinski]

What do you want to know? We're extremely frustrated by him and by other players that aren't indigenous.

Pretty much exactly that. Frustration with Motlop has nothing to do with his heritage

 

[backtozero]

Pretty much exactly that. Frustration with Motlop has nothing to do with his heritage

You should read some of the stuff written on our board about Ollie Wines after he did his shoulder wakeboarding.

 

[Black white]

Now if the OP had led with ageism ie: clubs and fans being biased against older people he would have something to go on. This is easy to prove by looking at players ages and clearly points to the the fact the whole AFL is full of ageists.

Or maybe he could point to the fact there are no real fat forwards anymore , why is that? I hear you ask
Well football has evolved and so has game style which now requires profesional athletes, meaning we have a bias against fatties. Also you could argue this trend has continued and grown (unlike the waistlines) over the last 30yrs which points to the fact the AFL is built on Systemic Fatism.

I sure hope the players realise they benefit from their young, fit, privilege

Totally agree. Added to that the treatment of the follicly challenged.

 

[Seeds]

Motlop wasn't just targeted by Geelong fans but all fans. There were and maybe still are plenty of threads dedicated to Motlop and his downhill skiing and willingness to squib the contest. Cats fans were always frustrated because he has/had the ability to be one of the best players in the league. I'd love a Port fan to chime in on Motlop.

I personally don't remember much hate for Christensen. I was always a huge fan and sad he left. Likewise with Varcoe. Regarding Sav I think people understand he is very raw and can often go missing in games, Rohan cops as much criticism. Players like Atkins, Steven, Stanley, both Guthries, Kolo, Henry, Bews and Dahlhaus all cop it on our board.

Up until last year Cam Guthrie was on around his 4th season in a row as the Cats board whipping boy. I think you're just looking for problems where they don't exist.

I disagree. I think its subconscious though so we wouldnt even know we are doing it. The only way we can tell is to look at the data. if i had to rank the biggest players our fans have loved to hate in the past 15 years It would be:

motlop
stanley
guthrie
varcoe
blicavs
esava

if i went back another 5 years i would add mensch, kingsley and ronnie burns.

If i had to guess over 90 percent of our list over the past 15-20 years is white. less then 10 percent non white. Its not even close to proportionate.

False



Also false. Racism is learned, nobody is born with it.

you are dead wrong on this. its innate. Not solely learned. For very obvious evolutionary reasons. pretty much every behavioural study has confirmed this. almost all people including extreme identitarian lefties fail subconscious racism tests. Its only when they can rationalise do they usually pass them.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Racism? Collingwood? Surely not...
(Please keep your mouth shut Eddie.)

 

[BronCrow]

In my experience, the club are pretty good, and cannot recall any racist remarks made at Crows home games, though don't doubt it does happen. Likewise, have not experienced it at games in Melbourne or up in Queensland that I have been to, but am sure that it does happen.

 

[Seeds]

Now if the OP had led with ageism ie: clubs and fans being biased against older people he would have something to go on. This is easy to prove by looking at players ages and clearly points to the the fact the whole AFL is full of ageists.

Or maybe he could point to the fact there are no real fat forwards anymore , why is that? I hear you ask
Well football has evolved and so has game style which now requires profesional athletes, meaning we have a bias against fatties. Also you could argue this trend has continued and grown (unlike the waistlines) over the last 30yrs which points to the fact the AFL is built on Systemic Fatism.

I sure hope the players realise they benefit from their young, fit, privilege

Im a little worried by this post. Its seems to be implying that non white players are no good just like old players are no good and overweight players are no good. Or have you just terribly phrased your post?

 

[Bomberboyokay]

you are dead wrong on this. its innate. Not solely learned. For very obvious evolutionary reasons. pretty much every behavioural study has confirmed this.

Lots of evidence of ancient or tribal humans interacting and swapping members. Little evidence they developed racist hatred for one another (not to be confused with other disagreements they had). Racism as we in 2020 understand it with pseudoscience justification is quite recent, coming to exist in the last few centuries.

 

[DirtySandman]

Racism hasn’t suddenly gone, but I think and hope things are trending for the better. And are far better than they were just a few decades ago.

some people will latch onto anything to show how bad the world is, and full of horrid racists, sometimes by calling things racist, that may not be.

eg.

non white players