Politics Aussie Fascists, (neo)Nazis and Leg Spinners

[Chief]

haven't heard any support of apartheid

Not a single person has mentioned ideas that would lead to or are analogous with apartheid style systems?

 

[GudOnya]

Doesn’t have to be against the law for someone to be deplatformed.

Thomas Sewell and Blair Cottrell only a couple of days ago had their accounts suspended from X. This is deplatforming Nazis. They aren’t owed anything. They don’t get the right to spout hateful views.

Nor should any society allow them to spread their views. It’s not enough to just ignore it because others won’t and the more it becomes common place the more people will be tempted by parts of their views or all of them.

That is a private organisation choosing not to have their platform associated with them, which I don't have any issue with. The comments I was initially referencing were the ones suggesting that they should be universally banned from being able to voice their opinions in any way.

 

[the_interloper]

Centrism is for dummies.

PICK A SIDE![

 

[jannissary]

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Give Sam a break guys, I mean, who hasn't accidentally taken a beaming smile photo with a Nazi?


Could happen to anyone!

don't think he's beaming there, but i'm shocked he's able to move his face at all!

 

[jannissary]

this seems like good old fashioned american small liberal brain

violence is never the answer

you must only use words in a public debate to stop fascism

anything else is as bad as fascism

funnily enough its exactly the kind of thinking that allows fascism to take root and grow its base

we must defeat them in the marketplace of ideas!!!!!!!!! if we had've had a nice chinwag with hitler, WW2 never would've started

 

[Gralin]

Right, the name isn't familiar but obviously the actions are.

Nazis I don't care about, equality in a literal sense I do. Hypocrisy also irritates me, but given I can be somewhat hypocritical myself at times I can't really judge that one as harshly.

I'm curious what led you to a thread about nazis if you have no interest in them

I'm also curious why you are so interested in making sure nazis have equality when they themselves don't want that for anyone else

that is helping them achieve their goal which is apparently against your supposed goal

equality for all doesn't work with fascists

 

[GudOnya]

I'm curious what led you to a thread about nazis if you have no interest in them

I'm also curious why you are so interested in making sure nazis have equality when they themselves don't want that for anyone else

that is helping them achieve their goal which is apparently against your supposed goal

equality for all doesn't work with fascists

The thread was titled "Player removed from Hall of fame" on the Scandals and Rumors board, no suggestion of Nazis until reading the contents of the thread. Some of my, and others', posts were moved by a moderator from that thread to here.

Again my points are not about ensuring Nazis have anything, it's that we shouldn't have different rules for different people solely based on their beliefs even when we don't agree with them. What they want doesn't factor in to what I think we should do. Equality that is only applied to people we think it should be isn't equality.

 

[H00t]

That is a private organisation choosing not to have their platform associated with them, which I don't have any issue with. The comments I was initially referencing were the ones suggesting that they should be universally banned from being able to voice their opinions in any way.

You came into the thread saying it was bad to censor Nazis. Then within a couple of posts you were calling the censoring of Nazi’s as fascism.

Then you continued to argue that any censoring of Nazi’s was fascist.

For some strange reason this is the hill you’ve chosen to make your stand. That the general public standing up to Nazi’s is bad.

 

[GudOnya]

You came into the thread saying it was bad to censor Nazis. Then within a couple of posts you were calling the censoring of Nazi’s as fascism.

Then you continued to argue that any censoring of Nazi’s was fascist.

For some strange reason this is the hill you’ve chosen to make your stand. That the general public standing up to Nazi’s is bad.

No if you reread I came into the thread saying that the forcible suppression of opposition under the argument of being for the greater good is fascist, which under the definition of fascism it is. I never said anything about "any censoring of nazis is fascist". And I advocated for the general public standing up to Nazis.

 

[peetoo]

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"The police could have a gun to my head and I love it. Dying for the white race is my purpose in life"


These guys are gonna pull a B Tarrant eventually.

They can jail instead. They area a weak as when it comes to it

 

[H00t]

No if you reread I came into the thread saying that the forcible suppression of opposition under the argument of being for the greater good is fascist, which under the definition of fascism it is. I never said anything about "any censoring of nazis is fascist". And I advocated for the general public standing up to Nazis.

So Germany post 1945 is fascist for banning all Nazi rhetoric, symbols and holocaust denial?

Also we have gone over this fascism is much more than just “forcible suppression of opposition for the greater good”.

Instead you use it is a crutch to try and prevent any curtailing of Nazi rhetoric.

 

[the_interloper]

Hoy matey, I realise you probably got here by clicking on 'New Posts' up the top but check WHERE in the forum you are

Forums/Not Footy Related/Society, Religion and Politics

Amazing you needed to point that out but here we are.

 

[GudOnya]

So Germany post 1945 is fascist for banning all Nazi rhetoric, symbols and holocaust denial?

Also we have gone over this fascism is much more than just “forcible suppression of opposition for the greater good”.

Instead you use it is a crutch to try and prevent any curtailing of Nazi rhetoric.

I love it how you continue to try and say that I said things that I didn't and then when I correct you, you pretend it never happened and start with something else. I have also tried to disengage from you on this topic but you continued to reply to my posts that were made to other people. You obviously have some kind of personal issue where you want to project all these things on to me and label me a Nazi sympathizer or defender or similar no matter what the wording in my actual posts was.

Fascism is more than that yes, but once again that doesn't prevent the forcible suppression of opposition under the banner of being for the greater good from being fascist under the definition of fascism. Feel free to argue with Miriam Webster or the writers of whatever other dictionary you'd prefer to use if you disagree.

And once again feel free to show me anywhere that I have tried "to prevent any curtailing of Nazi rhetoric", I'll give you a hint though, it didn't happen. In fact I advocated for people to argue and educate against Nazi rhetoric.

Not sure how many more times you want me to repeat the same things again and again so you can try and twist my words into a different meaning to suit your agenda.

 

[GudOnya]

Amazing you needed to point that out but here we are.

That post, along with the early ones of mine in this thread, were moved here from a different forum by moderators.

 

[H00t]

I love it how you continue to try and say that I said things that I didn't and then when I correct you, you pretend it never happened and start with something else. I have also tried to disengage from you on this topic but you continued to reply to my posts that were made to other people. You obviously have some kind of personal issue where you want to project all these things on to me and label me a Nazi sympathizer or defender or similar no matter what the wording in my actual posts was.

Fascism is more than that yes, but once again that doesn't prevent the forcible suppression of opposition under the banner of being for the greater good from being fascist under the definition of fascism. Feel free to argue with Miriam Webster or the writers of whatever other dictionary you'd prefer to use if you disagree.

And once again feel free to show me anywhere that I have tried "to prevent any curtailing of Nazi rhetoric", I'll give you a hint though, it didn't happen. In fact I advocated for people to argue and educate against Nazi rhetoric.

Not sure how many more times you want me to repeat the same things again and again so you can try and twist my words into a different meaning to suit your agenda.

No I’m just trying to get an understanding of your viewpoints. You’ve said to speak up against Nazi’s but seem very against doing anything to actually curtail them.

Fascism involves the forcible suppression of anyone who opposes them. Silencing and banning Nazi’s isn’t forcibly suppressing all opposition. It instead focusses on one specific hateful group that carried out the holocaust and still has followers today.

There’s also the fact there’s many tenants of fascism.

 

[GudOnya]

No I’m just trying to get an understanding of your viewpoints. You’ve said to speak up against Nazi’s but seem very against doing anything to actually curtail them.

Fascism involves the forcible suppression of anyone who opposes them. Silencing and banning Nazi’s isn’t forcibly suppressing all opposition. It instead focusses on one specific hateful group that carried out the holocaust and still has followers today.

There’s also the fact there’s many tenants of fascism.

Here you go mate, this is my initial comment on the matter.

I don't really care much either way about one whackjob talking to two other whackjobs, but I am quite enjoying the assertions that we should essentially forcibly censor an opposing political view because it's the fascist one.

Given that you have been making me repeat the same things ad nauseum here are some more of my viewpoints that you apparently can't understand. If it makes you feel any better you can pretend that they are new responses to you and go around in the circle once again.

I'm not comparing the ideologies, I'm comparing the treatment of opposing ideologies. Forcible suppression of opposition and claims of acting for the greater good (whether that be for community or nation or race) are key tenets of fascism. Sure I think these guys must be dickheads if they are neo-nazis, but banning them from having any kind of voice themselves because they are fascists is fascist in itself.

The price for living in a "free" society is that, as long as it doesn't breach the law, they are just as free to be dickheads as we are to call them dickheads for it. We don't have to like it or agree with them but if you want the freedom to decide on these things for yourself then that freedom needs to granted universally (again, within the law).

No thanks. I'm pretty happy to just stand by my opinion that advocating for fascism as a way to stop the spread of fascism is counter-productive at best.

The first line is a different debate about whether or not being anti-fascist is part of a centralized will in Australia, but that debate is probably far enough off-topic here to ignore.

For the rest of your point though I certainly do understand that but that's not where my issue lies, my issue lies in the means of achieving Popper's end goal.

Personally I think fascism is stupid, which is why I rail against the use of fascist techniques for any purpose.

If so many people have such a strong belief about the danger of fascism spreading amongst the community then instead of simply advocating that fascists should be forcibly silenced they should be using their energies, and exercising the same rights to voice their opinions as the fascists have, to educate the community about those dangers and to promote the ideals of democracy.

Banning things just because we don't like them or agree with them is inherently dangerous and not something that a nation such as Australia should tolerate in my opinion. Education and information should be the tools, not suppression. We don't have to let anything fester, but just saying "Nah just ban it" isn't going to address the matter and is incredibly lazy thinking for people who seem to be so passionate about the issue.

Calling out Nazis, rather than banning them from publicly speaking, is exactly what I am advocating for. The government banning hate speech is an example I used as not being a fascist action too, as it is a sweeping ban that encompasses all things considered "hate speech" regardless of the source as it should be.

And no me calling the forcible suppression of opposing views for the benefit of the greater good doesn't make it fascist, the definition of fascism does. And I do use some energy combating fascism when I encounter it, I have a mate from high school who started down that rabbit hole and I have had many discussions with him about why I believe it is stupid. Everyone else from our old friend group gave up on him as it was all too much work and have instead joined the "just ban them" group. He is slowly coming around but it does take effort.

And again, calling out Nazism is what I am advocating for, I am not using Nazi talking points against those that do so. I am simply trying to suggest that there should be better ways to do it in a "free" society that seemingly values freedom of thought.

 

[Gralin]

yeah they're just dickheads right

all ideologies are the same really so we should treat every one the same

you probably think peaceful protest is how we got workers rights too

the nazis were definitely beaten by being out debated to win the public over to peacefully reject their views

they definitely didn't build a movement on the back of public speaking, that's how they lost the war

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

botox aint cheap gents, got to keep the views up somehow

Mein Gott! Sam's trying to get the Nazi movement to hand over its WW2 stockpile of weaponised botulism cultures so he can keep injecting his face. IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!!!!!!!

 

[Soggy2112]

The thread was titled "Player removed from Hall of fame" on the Scandals and Rumors board, no suggestion of Nazis until reading the contents of the thread. Some of my, and others', posts were moved by a moderator from that thread to here.

Again my points are not about ensuring Nazis have anything, it's that we shouldn't have different rules for different people solely based on their beliefs even when we don't agree with them. What they want doesn't factor in to what I think we should do. Equality that is only applied to people we think it should be isn't equality.

We don’t want to deny Nazis certain things because we disagree with them, we do so because they are attempting to further a movement that is violent and dangerous.

You’re making false equivalences.

 

[CM86]

Here you go mate, this is my initial comment on the matter.



Given that you have been making me repeat the same things ad nauseum here are some more of my viewpoints that you apparently can't understand. If it makes you feel any better you can pretend that they are new responses to you and go around in the circle once again.

Would you call Trump fascist?

Or would you be hesitant in going as far as to use that term for Trump?

 

[Majunga]

Honestly, a bunch of white dickheads doing stupid salutes should just be laughed away by a stable, logical, rational society.

These people are always emboldened by hard core conservative politicians & media personalities though. They both think the same, but one wears a suit, has higher intelligence and presents a more upstanding image to the world.

But they are the same behind the facade

 

[Majunga]

Here you go mate, this is my initial comment on the matter.



Given that you have been making me repeat the same things ad nauseum here are some more of my viewpoints that you apparently can't understand. If it makes you feel any better you can pretend that they are new responses to you and go around in the circle once again.

Mate, guys like you are always going to have a rough time trying to get people to understand the very simple yet fundamental concept of: I defend your rights, so you defend mine. The foundation of any truly great society.

I do disagree with your banning hate speech though, give it the credit it deserves, laughter..

People are too emotional. It's hard for us to separate passion & feeling from the logical & evidence based.

Keep up the good fight though!

 

[Majunga]

yeah they're just dickheads right

all ideologies are the same really so we should treat every one the same

you probably think peaceful protest is how we got workers rights too

the nazis were definitely beaten by being out debated to win the public over to peacefully reject their views

they definitely didn't build a movement on the back of public speaking, that's how they lost the war

But what kind of people are persuaded by right wing rhetoric in the first place?

The uneducated, the angry, the disillusioned.

Problems of which a society with much less inequality, less divisive leaders and a higher base education level would have less of to begin with.

 

[phantom13]

We’re a few years removed from brexit and mere days into a second trump term (where a number of very naziesque policies are already being implemented).

But yes, impossible to suggest any hint of nationalism and nazism is creeping into the every day.

 

[Gough]

We’re a few years removed from brexit and mere days into a second trump term (where a number of very naziesque policies are already being implemented).

But yes, impossible to suggest any hint of nationalism and nazism is creeping into the every day.

That we're watching authoritarianism creep into America and one side of politics here is actually applauding the guy that's doing it and likening their own leader to him is very concerning to me.