Bigfooty Yid Army Thread

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cats2rise said:
Who says rotation for form/fitness means you are prioritising the league? That's as simplistic as me saying you expect 11 players to play 90 minutes across 45 games in a season. And I know you know an international break isn't a holiday break.

Going into the game the big question was whether it would be 2-3 rotations or 6-7. I too was surprised with the overall amount, but again the line up should have dealt with Fulham.
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We sold Sanchez within days of that game. We haven't started Forster since. Davies and Emerson didn't get a look in until the crisis.

If it was determined that those 4 needed minutes across that week. Which I'd argue Forster didn't. But still, spread them across the 3 games and not name a B team for a cup game. It's a bug bear I've had with a number of our managers who've tanked cups.

Against Bournemouth play Emerson with the first choice 3, rest Porro
Against Fulham play Davies with 3 first choice, rest Udogie
Against Burnley play Hojberg with the first choice back 4, rest Bissouma

Porro already missed opening day and Romero most of it too. So you could argue Emerson didn't even need to come in then
 
It was fine at the time because ange had a narrative of giving guys a chance.

But when it suits him his narrative has suddenly changed to its all about trophies and getting 4th is a nothing achievement.
 
I don't disagree there is a better way to stagger changes across multiple games.

But my point is that the XI selected should have been good enough. Ange also needed to see them in a competitive fixture. Yes the manager picks them, but the individual quality/experience of those players should have been enough.

This whole season is the one that got away. Shit v Fulham. Get City in the FA Cup. Do so well in games 1-10, have an extraordinary injury crises leading into AFCON etc, then a capitulation from game 25-38 it feels like.

If the season was reversed and we started slow before going 8-2-0 or whatever it was we'd be bemoaning why it had to be the end of the season.

Finishing 5th feels right to commence a rebuild under Ange.
 

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cats2rise said:
I don't disagree there is a better way to stagger changes across multiple games.

But my point is that the XI selected should have been good enough. Ange also needed to see them in a competitive fixture. Yes the manager picks them, but the individual quality/experience of those players should have been enough.

This whole season is the one that got away. s**t v Fulham. Get City in the FA Cup. Do so well in games 1-10, have an extraordinary injury crises leading into AFCON etc, then a capitulation from game 25-38 it feels like.

If the season was reversed and we started slow before going 8-2-0 or whatever it was we'd be bemoaning why it had to be the end of the season.

Finishing 5th feels right to commence a rebuild under Ange.
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I don't think it was that strong to get through against a PL side away. We saw what they did to us full strength, Sanchez and Forster were never in our plans. With Sanchez being allowed to go after the window closed. He didn't need to send him out there. He didn't need to see that there was a GK drop off from #1 to #2

Missed a huge opportunity with Norwich, Ipswich and Everton on the way to the semi final.

Early in the season playing a B team just doesn't cut it when 9 months later the manager wants to talk about trophies being everything and 4th being nothing.
 
jd2010 said:
Early in the season playing a B team just doesn't cut it when 9 months later the manager wants to talk about trophies being everything and 4th being nothing.
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To be fair, he is also a first year manager needing to get to know players, and the season had started well results wise with a clear first XI. Early this season Perisic and PEH were praised for being mature headed experienced players to come on as substitutes. Maybe others were showing a lot in training? I dunno.

I'm not saying it wasn't risky management but the performance was worse than what we all expected, really. So that's on players. Ange is all risk too, they say.

And yeah I forgot to add a new back up keeper to my transfer priority list 😆
 
Most Tottenham fans went into the match hoping for a home defeat to ensure they did their fierce rivals no favours in the title race.

That's just an Optus Sport article but heaps of others are referencing the same.

Really? I don't think so. Out of the spurs fans I know, we had a pretty clear majority that wanted to win.

Fans certainly joked about it, me included, with other friends or colleagues...Spurs, Arsenal or otherwise.

Hell even some that did think they wanted to lose would still actually end up being excited about going for fourth if we had won.

A bit of mayo in these articles, just beating it up. Or am I really misreading this?

Now that we've lost I'm not unhappy it's helped City and pissed the other lot off no end though. I think more fans are in that boat.

I don't think the lost money and lure of Champions League is detrimental to the club right in this moment. We're in a good financial state if I understand it - we don't need CL money to buy CL players.
 
To understand London based spurs fans wanting spurs to lose to block Arsenal , I need to think about it in the context of what I’d sacrifice to avoid eagles winning another flag.

You’re really damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Hoping for a loss and it’s small club mentality, getting a win and it’s forever hearing about handing your cross town rivals a flag.

I almost land in f*ck em, it’s small club mentality till we win something. But it’s forever you handed us another reason to gloat.

Yes I realize freo can’t hand the eagles a flag but the freo and eagles rivalry is similar to the spurs arsenal. Long suffering vs success.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
cats2rise said:
Now that we've lost I'm not unhappy it's helped City and pissed the other lot off no end though. I think more fans are in that boat.
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It's like a pre season game. Not fussed about result in the lead up. Joke about the extreme rotation. But genuinely want to see us protect or experiment with the squad.

Game starts and of course enjoy our good play and want us to score. Concede and it's disappointing but not like goals in the other 36 games.

Lose and it's like after a pre season game. What did we learn. What do we need to improve etc
 
Putting everything aside I think that tactic was genuinely promising and on another day with a couple of better players I think spurs beat City.
A better winger on the right and a better 6 and reckon spurs look alot better
The extra protection of VDV at LB too worked. Hope he tries it again against Sheffield
 
It makes the need for another LCB/LB quite important rather than just a backup LB. I think dropping Udogie and playing VDV there in a similar way to how city use their LB is the next evolution of the way we play. Might explain the thinking around Lloyd Kelly on a free.

RB: Porro and KWP who can also play LB
RCB: Romero and Dragusin and Phillips
LCB: VDV and ???
LB: Udogie with cover from VDV and KWP

The setup can be mirrored on the right with any of the RCBs being very strong on the ball players who can play RB if need be

Sell: Emerson, Davies, Rodon, Tanganga, Reguillon, Sessengon
 
Just reading a bit on the Ange comments the next day from a few good reporters. A few staff making comments or jokes in the training ground have irked Ange. And it wouldn't be a surprise that this more pointed targeted attacks on needing change etc. have come this late in the season. First went hard on that line after the Liverpool defeat

Lights a fire up the entire club. But doesn't do it too early in the season that he loses a playing group for too long.

This all assumes he is as calculated and master communicator as we think he is, and he hasn't just lost his rag when he's tactics have been found out and is on a losing streak rant.
 
The game was proof of the mindset of the average fan, who is basically, just an average person with largely average achievements. I'm not having a go at Tottenham fans. I'm having a go at gen pop.

Compare that with the attitude and mindset of a single-minded high performer who is used to winning more often than not. Spurs have had three of them in succession, who have attempted a transformation of not just process, but attitude. To instil hunger and competitiveness in the organisation, and win at all costs. All three, so far, have failed.

Branding words such as 'dare to dream' on everything, is hollow when in any context, you're happy to renege on that pledge. Your dream is influenced by what the bloke next door is up to. That is the route will ensure perennial mediocrity.

I get there's the rivalry, and apart from the bootstudder, the receptionist, and tea lady at the club, (and perhaps the chairman at Spurs) it's largely confined to the fans. The players and performance staff couldn't give a shit. Maybe Arsenal fans would do think and do the same if the shoe were on the other foot. But they're the ones fighting for a premiership and in another champions league campaign.
 

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mcgarnacle said:
The game was proof of the mindset of the average fan, who is basically, just an average person with largely average achievements. I'm not having a go at Tottenham fans. I'm having a go at gen pop.

Compare that with the attitude and mindset of a single-minded high performer who is used to winning more often than not. Spurs have had three of them in succession, who have attempted a transformation of not just process, but attitude. To instil hunger and competitiveness in the organisation, and win at all costs. All three, so far, have failed.

Branding words such as 'dare to dream' on everything, is hollow when in any context, you're happy to renege on that pledge. Your dream is influenced by what the bloke next door is up to. That is the route will ensure perennial mediocrity.

I get there's the rivalry, and apart from the bootstudder, the receptionist, and tea lady at the club, (and perhaps the chairman at Spurs) it's largely confined to the fans. The players and performance staff couldn't give a s**t. Maybe Arsenal fans would do think and do the same if the shoe were on the other foot. But they're the ones fighting for a premiership and in another champions league campaign.
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I agree with this

My issue with Ange is where has this level of passion and intelligence been for the last 3 months.

He regularly made excuses, sent out players we knew would fail in set ways, talked up the long game and 4th not being good enough.

But yesterday he showed passion and intelligence that we were told to wait until we are more complete for.

On paper i love the way he set us up for that 1 game.

But it's stunk and been obvious to make those certain changes for months.

I love the stuff them worry about us notion.

But we'd have more of the "us" to worry about if we had 5-7 more points on the board, which we should have if we were as tactically flexible and mentally on as we were against Man City against any of Liverpool, West Ham, Fulham, undermanned Newcastle and Chelsea. Took 1 point from 15 there. And probablt even add the Arsenal game into that mix (Dragusin for Davies and Hojberg doesnt put the ball in his own net). If we had 68-70 points going into last night's game there would no "them" to give a shit about because we'd have our CL destiny in our hands. And I know me personally, I'd have been far more passionate about wanting us to win and secure as high a spot as possible than I was last night.
 
jd2010 said:
I'm not the one paid a few million to make the decisions
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Man, you're being a Monday expert here.

We were going to be in the mix for everything until 25 minutes into the Chelsea game where our season went **** up. Injury after injury and Ange trying to cobble together whatever he can to actually field a credible XI every week for months...yet we will likely finish 5th after also losing the world's best striker.

Ange has done nothing short of an incredible job given he is trying to reset the club after 5 years of utter garbage under 3 different guys (2 of which are allegedly managerial royalty).

It's easy to take pot shots from the cheap seats but 5th in season one after the adversity he has faced...Postecoglou deserves a medal.
 
The Cryptkeeper said:
Man, you're being a Monday expert here.

We were going to be in the mix for everything until 25 minutes into the Chelsea game where our season went **** up. Injury after injury and Ange trying to cobble together whatever he can to actually field a credible XI every week for months...yet we will likely finish 5th after also losing the world's best striker.

Ange has done nothing short of an incredible job given he is trying to reset the club after 5 years of utter garbage under 3 different guys (2 of which are allegedly managerial royalty).

It's easy to take pot shots from the cheap seats but 5th in season one after the adversity he has faced...Postecoglou deserves a medal.
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I've dialed back the calling out our shitness from 6 months to 3 months because it's true, the first half of that we were hit by injuries and players away. But the last 3 months we've been pretty much full fit and the football is no better and the results in fact are far worse. There can be no denying that fact. And some is on not being a good enough squad. But some is on Ange himself.

4-3-3 without a proper ST wasting our star man Son in a role he is shit at. No surprises our best football in this rut has come when either Richarlison or Scarlett were on and Son was back at LW. Neither of the two ST did an actual lot individually, but their presence made us as a collective play better. Also who would have thought your best player playing in a spot they play well in helps the team too ;)

Kept persisting with Udogie who before his injury was being called out for poor performance, to then go to tried and true failure in Davies (as an inverted LB at least), then tried and true failure in Emerson, to finally be ballsy and try Skipp which was okay, to finally be ballsy and try VDV which worked well now at both ends.

That's not taking away from the fact 5th is as good as we would have hoped going into the season. Finishing below Villa maybe not. But we've been lucky Chelsea and united were so bad, and in fact Chelsea could still finish above us plus had 2 cup finals, so bit of context there too. .

It's a solid season no doubt about that. But the last 3 months and his Conte style tantrum at the end have been very poor. And puts him under severe pressure next season. Now I think Ange himself would admit the end of the seasons been poor and that if he doesn't improve on 66 points and meek cup exits he'll be out of a job. And I think he'll relish that challenge. That's the standard he wants to set, and it's the bare minimum I expect from him next season. I just hope he hasn't burnt too many bridges and if results don't start well that Levy shits himself and sacks him. Unless we are relegation threatened I want him to see out next season so we can fairly judge him on the progress he says are his targets.
 
Loaning out Veliz didnt make sense at the time, and made less sense the more Son was stuck playing up top without any other viable fit option (when Richarlison was out).

Also Ange v Conte 'tantrums' are chalk and cheese JD. But we know you know this.
 
cats2rise said:
Loaning out Veliz didnt make sense at the time, and made less sense the more Son was stuck playing up top without any other viable fit option (when Richarlison was out).

Also Ange v Conte 'tantrums' are chalk and cheese JD. But we know you know this.
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Chalk and cheese because for Conte it was him looking for an out. Ange I still believe wants to make this work. It's his big shot at 58 years old.

But it was a tantrum that has brought heightened pressure on himself. Just not in the immediate terms like conte did, more the next 6 months become massive for ange
 
jd2010 said:
Chalk and cheese because for Conte it was him looking for an out. Ange I still believe wants to make this work. It's his big shot at 58 years old.

But it was a tantrum that has brought heightened pressure on himself. Just not in the immediate terms like conte did, more the next 6 months become massive for ange
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Mate, that wasn't a tantrum. That was mild agitation.

Ange has a truckload of credit in the bank. Unless we are in the bottom 6 after 10 games next season his job is completely safe.

We'll end in the CL spots next season and have a very deep cup run. Bookmark it.
 
jd2010 said:
He's lost a lot of goodwill from the UK based supporters, he has put a massive spotlight on himself that the media will be all over poor results and it could get too much for Levy to handle.
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Has he though? That's not what I'm reading or hearing.
 
jd2010 said:
He's lost a lot of goodwill from the UK based supporters, he has put a massive spotlight on himself that the media will be all over poor results and it could get too much for Levy to handle.
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Levy has never buckled to the fans. Why would he start with Ange?

The noise from a minority of idiot fans, encouraged by fools like Jamie O'hara will soon go away if we start next season well.
 
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