Brexit - The UK referendum on leaving the EU - Reneging, reshmeging!

[Bomberboyokay]

Farage has always made sure his German wife keeps her mouth shut.

 

[Power Raid]

frexit, quitaly, auxit..............sounds like europe is waking up to the fact international co-operation and smaller govt is a better direction than big bureaucracy

 

[Pessimistic]

frexit, quitaly, auxit..............sounds like europe is waking up to the fact international co-operation and smaller govt is a better direction than big bureaucracy

Everyone puts their own spin on it

At the heart of it. It's a way for Europe to resolve issues without war

 

[Power Raid]

Everyone puts their own spin on it

At the heart of it. It's a way for Europe to resolve issues without war

I definitely hear where you are coming from but Europe is in a death spiral unless it can be nimble.

It can address the issue you raise by co-operation, free trade and harmonisation.

Given bureaucracy created trade barriers and other issues, more bureaucracy was never going to be a solution.

 

[JackOutback]

You think Brexit is going to reduce trade barriers? You might be in for a rude shock.

 

[Pessimistic]

I definitely hear where you are coming from but Europe is in a death spiral unless it can be nimble.

It can address the issue you raise by co-operation, free trade and harmonisation.

Given bureaucracy created trade barriers and other issues, more bureaucracy was never going to be a solution.

Beurocracy imposed controls on free movement too, which is what brexiteers were about - they dont even hide it now.

And its not particularly about muslims, but about eastern europeans. who incidentally have been moving to britain for centuries. Its only WW1 WW2 and the cold war which stopped that which makes Brits think of no european migrants as the norm

its not the norm, and people like Abbott misreperesent it as saying WW1,WW@,cold war decades are 'traditional circumstances'


Ironing again Reagan pronounced "tear down that wall" now his successors want to build them again


Having said that having a single currency and single monetary policy was insane.

some of these trump or brecit voting areas would be much better off if monetary policy was tailored to the area. By all means have a single trading currency, but don't clobber up and coming areas because the londons and new yorks of this world need to take heat out of the economy

 

[Power Raid]

You think Brexit is going to reduce trade barriers? You might be in for a rude shock.

leaving the EU will reduce the size of the machine which means britain's bureaucracy can be more nimble. you can see by how hard it is to brexit, due to all the regulation, you appreciate how hard any reform would have been under the EU commitment.

in time all of europe's barriers will reduce and those that can act quicker will feel less pain in the long run.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

leaving the EU will reduce the size of the machine which means britain's bureaucracy can be more nimble. you can see by how hard it is to brexit, due to all the regulation, you appreciate how hard any reform would have been under the EU commitment.

in time all of europe's barriers will reduce and those that can act quicker will feel less pain in the long run.

You're conflating being internally "nimble" with being externally "nimble". What happens when countries aren't members of trade blocks is they put up barriers in order to protect their own interests, meaning that external trade is harder and more restricted.

 

[Pessimistic]

leaving the EU will reduce the size of the machine which means britain's bureaucracy can be more nimble. you can see by how hard it is to brexit, due to all the regulation, you appreciate how hard any reform would have been under the EU commitment.

in time all of europe's barriers will reduce and those that can act quicker will feel less pain in the long run.

Thats a good argument for scotland, ulster, wales, even yorkshire to secede too. Bet they dont hold any more referendi on that

 

[Power Raid]

You're conflating being internally "nimble" with being externally "nimble". What happens when countries aren't members of trade blocks is they put up barriers in order to protect their own interests, meaning that external trade is harder and more restricted.

the world is moving toward free trade and trade blocks are thus a greater barrier than enabler.

all you need to do to create free trade and property rights currently, to get around trade blocks, is to structure an organisation with complex subsidiaries as required. Thus large organisation have free trade but small business is locked out.

By having free trade, just means ordinary folk benefit as much as the majors.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

the world is moving toward free trade and trade blocks are thus a greater barrier than enabler.

all you need to do to create free trade and property rights currently, to get around trade blocks, is to structure an organisation with complex subsidiaries as required. Thus large organisation have free trade but small business is locked out.

By having free trade, just means ordinary folk benefit as much as the majors.

You've obviously never reviewed a Trade Agreement. In a previous role i reviewed the Australia/South Korea FTA. That was a massive document that took years to negotiate. Imagine trying to do that for every country, it would be a massive mission, and impractical.

 

[Power Raid]

You've obviously never reviewed a Trade Agreement. In a previous role i reviewed the Australia/South Korea FTA. That was a massive document that took years to negotiate. Imagine trying to do that for every country, it would be a massive mission, and impractical.

you can currently create a synthetic FTA between any two nations through corporate structuring. ie australian parent holds a swedish sub that holds a bolivian sub. as australia doesn't have a direct FTA with bolivia but it does with sweden who has one with bolivia.

of course only large organisations can afford the legal advice, even know of the complexity and know how to structure. So a ubiquitous FTA makes more sense.

Is it hard to have a ubiquitous FTA......sure. but it's only hard due to bureaucracy. get rid of that and it's easy, especially given all you need to explain to the electorate is we are simply simplifying what we have. That would cut through the lies that an FTA is something new and will undermine everything.

 

[MaddAdam]

Going to happen next year it seems.

My tip? England votes to leave, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland vote to stay.

But overall Britain votes to leave.

Then all hell breaks loose.

Ahem. Apart from Wales voting to go too, one nailed that prediction.

 

[Pessimistic]

New ukip leader has mentioned privatising health as a priority

So just another pollyfor sale after all

 

[medusala]

You think Brexit is going to reduce trade barriers? You might be in for a rude shock.

Belonging to the EU means you can't sign your own trade deals. That means you are stuck with EU imposed barriers such as the CAP.

Thus its more than likely that trade barriers with the rest of the world will be reduced. The possible increase in tariffs is if the UK reverts to WTO rules with the EU. That however, will hurt the EU more than the UK (which is more dependent on services). Germany alone has a trade surplus of almost 2% gdp with the UK.

 

[medusala]

New ukip leader has mentioned privatising health as a priority

So just another pollyfor sale after all

lol. The UK desperately needs more private health insurance as the NHS is just a diabolical system lurching from disaster to disaster.

To suggest someone is corrupt for doing something sensible is just pathetic.

You may as well start banging on Castro and his health system.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Brexit: rising frustration across EU at Britain's unclear exit strategy

Mounting concern among EU-27 that UK government and Brexiter MPs seem unwilling to accept that what they want is not on offer

EU diplomats and officials have admitted that frustration with the UK’s opaque Brexit strategy is mounting, but insisted Europe’s position on Britain’s departure from the bloc remains unchanged.

Sandro Gozi, Italy’s Europe minister, told the Guardian there was growing concern on the continent that the situation “seems to be far from clear in London. And we don’t know what the starting basis will be in negotiations.”

Gozi added: “We really don’t understand what the real strategy is. It is very unclear what kind of Brexit they want. It seems there are disagreements and divisions in the cabinet. There are many uncertainties.”

Officials in Brussels rejected the idea that a sardonic letter from Donald Tusk on Tuesday to British MPs who had written to urge him to secure the rights of EU citizens in each other’s countries represented a new, tough line from Brussels.

“It is not about toughening up the points, it is about setting the record straight,” one official said, adding that the EU leader’s letter was simply consistent with repeated declarations that there could be no negotiations until article 50 was triggered.

But the official also pointed to a growing exasperation in EU capitals with the often opaque Brexit pronouncements of some UK ministers and MPs, saying: “I am not sure if they are misinformed, or if they want to be misinformed.”

The remarks follow a spate of recent comments that express irritation that Britain seems still to believe the EU-27 and institutions did not really mean what they said on Brexit and would eventually be won round.

Tusk’s pointed letter, in which he described the British MPs’ argument as “very interesting … but nothing to do with reality”, echoed similar observations by the prime ministers of Luxembourg and Malta.

The Dutch finance minister, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, described UK Brexit demands as “intellectually impossible and politically unavailable”, while Carlo Calenda, an Italian economics minister, complained that he was still waiting to hear “something that makes sense” from London.

The frustration is not especially over the time Brexit is taking: the EU would certainly like things to move faster, but has accepted that Britain needs time to assess its position and establish its negotiating goals.

It stems rather from a growing feeling that despite repeated assertions since 24 June, the UK government and pro-Brexit MPs still seem unwilling to acknowledge that what the UK appears to want from Brexit is not on offer.

In the days after the EU referendum, Brussels and many EU capitals said Britain should now leave the union fast to avoid unnecessary uncertainty and instability in a union confronting a range of urgent problems.

They also ruled out any negotiations – including EU citizens’ acquired rights – before the UK had formally notified the bloc of its intention to leave, and made clear that the EU’s four fundamental freedoms – free movement of goods, services, capital and people – were not negotiable.

Those positions have been reiterated countless times since. For Europe, as Wolfgang Schäuble, Germany’s powerful finance minister has repeatedly said, when it comes to the rights and obligations of EU membership “there is no à la carte menu. There is only the whole menu, or none.”

Malta’s prime minister, Joseph Muscat, insisted: “There is absolutely no bluffing from the EU side, no saying, ‘We will start in this position and then soften up.’ No, this is really and truly our position and it will not change.” He said he had “seldom witnessed … as much convergence” between EU states as he had on Brexit.

In return, EU officials and leaders have heard Britain’s foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, insist free movement is not a founding principle of the union, and that the UK is sure to retain preferential single market access because of the importance of prosecco and BMW sales.

Theresa May has repeatedly said her top priority is to control EU immigration and remove Britain from the jurisdiction of the European court, while somehow “giving British companies maximum freedom to trade and operate in the single market”.

And this week, notes – apparently from a meeting at the Department for Exiting the EU – photographed in an aide’s hand in Downing Street appeared to confirm the Brexit policy of David Davis, the minister in charge, was to “have cake and eat it”.

Member states have had no formal sessions to hash out their Brexit position, although the EU commission’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has briefed officials on his approach. But they have, thus far, shown near-total unity.

One senior EU diplomat told the Guardian: “So far, the unity of the 27 has been amazing. Back in July I thought, ‘Give it a month or two and it will all crumble.’ But the Brexiteers have managed to unite the 27 in a way I have rarely seen.”

That unity may well be tested once Brexit talks get under way. “The further we go into the negotiation … the more difficult it will be to maintain unity,” the diplomat warned. But for the time being, the European front is holding firm – and growing increasingly exasperated.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...n-across-eu-at-britains-unclear-exit-strategy

 

[JackOutback]

lol. The UK desperately needs more private health insurance as the NHS is just a diabolical system lurching from disaster to disaster.

To suggest someone is corrupt for doing something sensible is just pathetic.

You may as well start banging on Castro and his health system.

More like the US perhaps? Private health is a scam, looking to make some richer at the expense of sick people. The number of 'exemptions' that mean these companies don't pay out when they should is what's diabolical.

I'd take the NHS over the US system every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Pessimistic]

lol. The UK desperately needs more private health insurance as the NHS is just a diabolical system lurching from disaster to disaster.

To suggest someone is corrupt for doing something sensible is just pathetic.

You may as well start banging on Castro and his health system.

While I agree with you - this mob is not your saviours, they bang on, create a mess, then run away at a million miles an hour

Enjoy your heros comrade, castro didn't take a nice cushy directorship anywhere, whatever his other faults

 

[medusala]

While I agree with you - this mob is not your saviours, they bang on, create a mess, then run away at a million miles an hour

Enjoy your heros comrade, castro didn't take a nice cushy directorship anywhere, whatever his other faults

Talking of running away, see below. He destroyed any reputation for decency he had over Brexit and his honours list.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...end-six-months-working-Brexit-hand-rival.html


http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...gle.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

A decade ago, Forbes estimated Fidel Castro’s personal net worth at $900 million.

 

[medusala]

More like the US perhaps? Private health is a scam, looking to make some richer at the expense of sick peopl

No like France, Australia and Singapore.

The NHS is a scam, thousands die unnecessarily because large numbers of employees dont give a stuff and politicians give them free reign no matter what goes on.

See Mid Staffs scandal. Wouldn't happen in Australia.

 

[Pessimistic]

COS you have to go private to get a second opinion

It's not hard

 

[Pessimistic]

It looks like Brits working or living in Europe and vice versa will be able to protect their rights to continue doing so

 

[Todman]

The NHS is a scam, thousands die unnecessarily because large numbers of employees dont give a stuff and politicians give them free reign no matter what goes on.

Two words: Harold Shipton.

 

[Todman]

Brexiteers hailed a 'historic moment' tonight after the Government won an overwhelming majority to start the process of leaving the EU by the end of March.

A total of 461 MPs backed a motion in favour of Theresa May's timetable for Brexit, while a similar number of MPs backed a move requiring the Government to publish its Brexit plan before it triggers Article 50 - the formal process for leaving the EU.

But remarkably, 89 MPs voted to block Brexit tonight, despite June's referendum delivering a record 17.4million votes in favour of quitting the EU.

The rebellion against Brexit was marginally higher than expected but the result delivered a major boost to the Prime Minister and represented the first ever Commons majority in favour of leaving the EU.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4009604/We-today-rebels-ready-deliver-people-Davis-dares-rebels-try-thwart-Brexit-Commons-showdown-triggering-Article-50-April.html#ixzz4SCvbsKGC