Brisbane needs help: 2016

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Lions ain't beating Carlton.

Why not?

 

[Great8]

The Carlton are hard done by thread... Haha you guys really don't realize how much of an advantage VIC clubs have.

Really?
Swings and roundabouts.
There are positives and negatives to both sides of the argument

 

[hench]

The whole of Australia was behind Richmond on Friday night, don't you worry about that..

I was cheering for Collingwood as Hardwick is a campaigner.

 

[Great8]

At the end of the day you had your chance, just had to let us win 1 stupid game. If we had beaten you and you went on to claim the spoon the AFL couldn't help but give you what you need. Extra picks, extra money, whatever you needed

 

[Bucking Beads]

Really?
Swings and roundabouts.
There are positives and negatives to both sides of the argument

Really? You trying to tell me that VIC clubs in particular aren't more advantaged than the other clubs?

 

[Toump Ass]

Come on. "Another poster." Who? What are their credentials?

Your Herald-Sun hack job was a direct response to an assertion of a toxic culture from DaVillaBlues.

All I'm saying is your response was rubbish and did not address the question of any perceived cultural issues at Brisbane.

But for what it's worth, as a poster on bigfooty, I suppose their "credentials" are the same as yours?

As I said direct quotes from the players themselves.

As I said, direct quotes which you falsely claimed are "explanations of why the players left Brisbane".

"I get to have dinner with my Aunty" is not an explanation for leaving Brisbane, not that anyone could reasonably expect a player to publicly shame their ex-club.

Got anything better?

What else do you need?

How about membership numbers, the list, the coach, attendance figures, the ladder. It's all there mate... your club was a rabble, and it was patently obvious a "toxic culture" was part of that. Why else was there a change of coaching staff and board members?

But anyway, this is all in the past now, and I'm much more interested in talking about how shit Brisbane is, rather than how shit Brisbane was.

Tell me more about how Leppitsch is doing just as good a job as Richardson please!

 

[Great8]

Really? You trying to tell me that VIC clubs in particular aren't more advantaged than the other clubs?

At some things yes but others no.
Interstate sides have a far greater home ground advantage but that is negated somewhat by the travel factor. A lot more corporate $ in VIC aswell as some other factors

 

[Roylion]

Your Herald-Sun hack job was a direct response to an assertion of a toxic culture from DaVillaBlues.

All I'm saying is your response was rubbish and did not address the question of any perceived cultural issues at Brisbane.

But for what it's worth, as a poster on bigfooty, I suppose their "credentials" are the same as yours?

They are. However my comments on any such culture are not mine. The quotes I made aren't my quotes. The players are suggesting that the 'go home' factor was the primary one in deciding to leave Brisbane. And I haven't seen any specific evidence from you to the contrary, beyond 'a BigFooty poster said so'.

"I get to have dinner with my Aunty" is not an explanation for leaving Brisbane, not that anyone could reasonably expect a player to publicly shame their ex-club.

"Dinner with his aunty"? I don't recall him saying that.

Once again.

Sam Docherty - chose Carlton because it was a strong club that had just played finals, because Mick Malthouse was coach and because he thought the team could achieve big things and he had grown up barracking for the club, just like his late father.

"I missed being able to go down the road to visit my aunty or having dinner with family or mates and just seeing a familiar face,"

your club was a rabble, and it was patently obvious a "toxic culture" was part of that.

Where's your evidence for that? Do try and move beyond 'a poster on BigFooty said so'.

Why else was there a change of coaching staff and board members?

The reasons for Michael Voss' contract not being extended are well known. At the time there was Board turmoil. Bit like Richmond at the moment. Board turmoil doesn't necessarily indicate a so-called "toxic" culture for players. Player support for Hardwick at Richmond is well known. Yet there is still Tigers board turmoil.

But anyway, this is all in the past now, and I'm much more interested in talking about how shit Brisbane is, rather than how shit Brisbane was.

I'm sure you are.

Tell me more about how Leppitsch is doing just as good as Richardson please!

Earlier this year he was.

 

[Happy_Neale]

"Assistance" is so piece-meal. So incoherent and haphazard.
The AFL is set up like a socialist utopia and like all socialist organisations there ends up being favourites. People/groups that the commanders think deserve more than others for whatever reason.

I am saying that Brisbane since 2000 has had what five? bad years, no wooden spoons? and three premierships.
Try comparing that to 3-4 wooden spoons, majority of the time out of the finals, massive debts, a head office that doesn't care and no premierships since 2000.

I think Brisbane is doing very nicely in comparison if we are looking at post 2000.


But really your record stacks up well. Technically if you measure it just on premierships it is the 2nd best (equal) record in the league after Hawthorn since 2000. 3 flags. Thank you very much.


Your team has a few injuries and a sub-standard coach this year.
Don't worry, the AFL is already rushing to your assistance. There was an article in the paper the other day saying they are funding Brisbane's new facilities and also putting extra money here and there.

Meanwhile, Carlton is left to rot on the vine.

Again, what? We have played finals once since 2004, we have the largest debt in the league, the worst facilities and a severe lack of top end talent. Explain why you are bringing Carlton into this again? Do you want a PP or financial assistance for the Blues this year? Start a thread about it.

 

[ProgUbud13]

Remember Leigh Matthews said "There should be only one Queensland team on the AFL!" WELL...bet he's regretting that statement. Seems now we know which team that would be! #GoSuns

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

Remember Leigh Matthews said "There should be only one Queensland team on the AFL!" WELL...bet he's regretting that statement. Seems now we know which team that would be! #GoSuns

Lol

 

[Toump Ass]

The players are suggesting that the 'go home' factor was the primary one in deciding to leave Brisbane.

Where does it suggest in any of your quotes that the 'go home' facto was the primary factor in deciding to leave Brisbane?

"I missed being able to go down the road to visit my aunty"

Roylion... more like Roylying, amirite?

And I haven't seen any specific evidence from you to the contrary

Declining membership numbers, issues with player retention, the AFL ladder, average list, changes at board level and coaching staff- clear indications of something wrong at the Gabba. Call it what you will.

The reasons for Michael Voss' contract not being extended are well known.

The Lions wanted Paul Roos, wasn't it? Shame how that worked out

Earlier this year he was.

Alan Richardson has improved year on year since he's taken over the Saints. Leppitsch has done the opposite.

Do you not know how to count?

 

[Hollow Knight]

This information is incompatible with my argument. It is therefore entirely invalid.

 

[Toump Ass]

This information is incompatible with my argument. It is therefore entirely invalid.

I feel I might be waiting a while for my good friend Roylion to give me a little information on how Leppitsh is doing an equal job of Alan Richardson, maybe you could help?

Also would love to see in any of those quotes from the Herald-Sun where the 'go home factor' is stated as the primary reason for changing clubs.

Thanks Brownie

 

[Hollow Knight]

I feel I might be waiting a while for my good friend Roylion to give me a little information on how Leppitsh is doing an equal job of Alan Richardson, maybe you could help?

Also would love to see in any of those quotes from the Herald-Sun where the 'go home factor' is stated as the primary reason for changing clubs.

Thanks Brownie

So unless the player uses your specific, preferred phrasing you will just dispense with their comments altogether? No shades of grey at all?

Roylion and I are two separate people by the way. We don't share a hive mind.

 

[M Malice]

this don't give brisbane any help that some espouse reminds me of the big banks in the USA when the GFC hit. they didn't like the idea of rampant social welfare but when it was their turn to get the big bail out dollars their moral high ground went out the window.

i think it is certain that the AFL will financially help the lions and help in negotiations with the aim of getting a firm announcement on the new administration and training base in the airport precinct before the end of the season. they need to up their financial support from the current $5 million though.

this would do a hell of a lot re hope for the supporter base and may help in luring a couple of trade/FA targets.

 

[Roylion]

Where does it suggest in any of your quotes that the 'go home' facto was the primary factor in deciding to leave Brisbane?

"I missed being able to go down the road to visit my aunty"

Well at least you quoted it correctly this time.

"I missed being able to go down the road to visit my aunty or having dinner with family or mates and just seeing a familiar face,"

Are you that obtuse? Here let me explain the inference of the above quote as this is clearly beyond you.

References to 'aunty', 'family', 'mates', 'familiar face' indicates that Docherty wished to return to his home state - Victoria. Get it? 'Home state'. The state he grew up in. The state where his family lives. The state where the club he supported as a kid is located.

Speaking of player retention, stand by for another couple of player re-signings at the Lions.

Declining membership numbers, issues with player retention, the AFL ladder, average list, changes at board level and coaching staff- clear indications of something wrong at the Gabba. Call it what you will.

Well you clearly pulled out some sort of trendy by-word to describe something clearly beyond your understanding. Do you actually understand the word 'toxic' without having to look it up? Or 'culture'?

The Lions wanted Paul Roos, wasn't it? Shame how that worked out

Yeah. Would have been nice. Maybe he would have recruited a couple of big bodied defenders and we wouldn't have leaked as many goals this year. Still Leppitsch went through with a massive rebuild of the list and its likely some other coach will reap the benefits of the hard decisions and list direction that Leppitsch embarked upon.

Alan Richardson has improved year on year since he's taken over the Saints. Leppitsch has done the opposite.

Saints have the older list. Leppitsch has been stripping down the Brisbane list over the last two years. St Kilda has been building. Even so they had the same record early this year.

 

[Cleric]

I dont care about this argument but are you that deluded? Come on mate

You think we got market value? Dear god.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Have to laugh at the brisbane fans who think the afl are trying to screw them, they did everything they could to gift them three premierships

 

[Furn2]

As I've said before, non traditional state sides have done significantly better than sides from Victoria when it comes to overall results since it became a national league.

For example winning 25% of the flags over the last 20 years despite making up 12.5% of the team for most of that time.

So that's double the success expected if you look at just flags, if you look at finals or top 4 they have also done considerably better than average.

So despite all these claims of disadvantages they don't show up when you look at the only measure that matters which is results on the field.

We can also look through history and find equally poor periods for teams in every state. So there's no suggestion that what Brisbane are going through is unique to non traditional sides.

 

[TedDougChris]

Have to laugh at the brisbane fans who think the afl are trying to screw them, they did everything they could to gift them three premierships

To be fair it does stink that they are the only northern team without some concessions. Particularly when Sydney were established earlier and have a extra 15 years to make a mark and they still get some.....

But, that brings you back to the fundamental question - there are disadvantages for the northern clubs, so how do you want to compensate for these disadvantages ? - then do it consistently and across the board....

GWS getting an additional 1M in the cap, extra lists spots, established AFL areas as zones, extra marketing allowances etc etc etc....
Brisbane get nothing ??

The Brisbane concessions when they won the flag were far less than GWS's will be when they win theirs.......

But these concessions are not the whole and sole cause of the Lions problems.....

 

[Toump Ass]

So unless the player uses your specific, preferred phrasing you will just dispense with their comments altogether? No shades of grey at all?

Shades of Grey... I love that book!

Of course I don't dismiss a players comments entirely, but I'm not willing to take quotes from a Herald Sun article as gospel either.

Roylion and I are two separate people by the way. We don't share a hive mind.

Good to know. Wasn't quite sure where that "This information is incompatible with my argument. It is therefore entirely invalid." was directed

Are you that obtuse? Here let me explain the inference of the above quote as this is clearly beyond you...

Are you that naive? Coaching instability. Poor on-field performance. Average facilities. Average list. Legal challenges. Board issues. Queensland.

The "go home factor" was never the primary reason for the players leaving. The club was.

No need to be patronising, by the way, I can see quite clearly what your quotes are trying to illustrate.

Well you clearly pulled out some sort of trendy by-word to describe something clearly beyond your understanding. Do you actually understand the word 'toxic' without having to look it up? Or 'culture'?

Well actually, it was that other guy's words, not mine. And FWIW I don't really care to defend their post; I was more interested in your response. But let's change topics, I'm bored now.

Yeah. Would have been nice. Maybe he would have recruited a couple of big bodied defenders and we wouldn't have leaked as many goals this year. Still Leppitsch went through with a massive rebuild of the list and its likely some other coach will reap the benefits of the hard decisions and list direction that Leppitsch embarked upon.

Is there an stand out candidate as a replacement? Will the board give Leppitsch the 2017 season (with hopefully a full/fit list) to show a clear direction?

Saints have the older list. Leppitsch has been stripping down the Brisbane list over the last two years. St Kilda has been building. Even so they had the same record early this year.

Sorry mate, you cooked that one. The signs were there pretty early on that Richardson was moving in the right direction... Leppitsch, not so much.

Good luck for the rest of the season Lions fans. Hopefully you get the "help" you need... as long as that's money and not picks I don't really care.

 

[RUNVS]

Have to laugh at the brisbane fans who think the afl are trying to screw them, they did everything they could to gift them three premierships

Find it odd that people continually mention this as it is not remotely relevant to any of the discussions. 2003 was a very long time ago now, and the game has changed in almost every way. Right now Brisbane are in trouble, and they are in trouble due to extreme neglect by the management and the AFL for the last decade. Brisbane made some awful decisions in recruiting former players, but the AFL have done almost nothing in actually helping Brisbane out.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

To be fair it does stink that they are the only northern team without some concessions. Particularly when Sydney were established earlier and have a extra 15 years to make a mark and they still get some.....

But, that brings you back to the fundamental question - there are disadvantages for the northern clubs, so how do you want to compensate for these disadvantages ? - then do it consistently and across the board....

GWS getting an additional 1M in the cap, extra lists spots, established AFL areas as zones, extra marketing allowances etc etc etc....
Brisbane get nothing ??

The Brisbane concessions when they won the flag were far less than GWS's will be when they win theirs.......

But these concessions are not the whole and sole cause of the Lions problems.....

That's not true, they had massive advantages over the rest of the competition when they won their premierships, zone selections and being able to sift through Fitzroy's carcass to name two.

As for compensation for their perceived disadvantages, they have an academy, which once again is a massive advantage. It's already been pointed out that clubs from non-traditional football states win far more than their share of premierships, which is the ultimate way of assessing the strength of the competition. What more do they want?

 

[Roylion]

The "go home factor" was never the primary reason for the players leaving. The club was.

Once again. Not what the players say. See quotes from the GH5 about why they returned to their home states.

Sorry mate, you cooked that one. The signs were there pretty early on that Richardson was moving in the right direction... Leppitsch, not so much.

Nonetheless they had the same record earlier in the season. Which is what I said at the time.