Brisbane needs help: 2016

[JeffDunne]

Nick Riewoldt should have been a lion.

Yeah . . . ok . . . based on what exactly?

 

[madmug]

Firstly, how do you know my views on the academies? I haven't mentioned them. Secondly the growth in grass roots football in SEQ has had nothing or little to do with the introduction of academies.


I'm a Victorian. I live in Queensland. Frankly I've never had a problem with Qlders rubbishing Aussie Rules. They're tame here compared to Sydney.

And yes, an even competition is what most of us want. Not one where the AFL orchestrates winners and losers.

I worked in Sydney for a while & yes they do rubbish Aussie rules a bit. But they do respect the Swans. Thats what I found. It may be the culture & how they present to the Sydney community, but they do seem to get the respect.

 

[TheBigTexan]

Of course Brisbane needs help. The loss of many great players all at once, introduction of expansion clubs with their concessions, dilution of the talent pool, player retention and their overall facilities has crippled them. Nobody wants to move to a losing side, and Brisbane need to "overpay" decent players to bring them over. How can they possibly rebuild when their young guns look for greener pastures or ask for mega-bucks?

If the AFL are serious about keeping the Brisbane side in the league, they need help. They need PP, short term salary concessions, upgraded facilities and quality support staff. Sacking Leppitsch is not even a band-aid solution and will just mask the the true problems Brisbane have. Got to feel for their supporters, going in to most games and just hoping you just don't get thumped again.

 

[madmug]

Nick Riewoldt should have been a lion.

Maybe he should have stayed in Tasmania where he grew up.

He was picked up in the draft, fair & square. End of story.

 

[Roylion]

As for Burpengary, like Seaford, it would be better than nothing.

Once again. The Lions rejected Burpengary because it was too far away from the city - 35 kilometres. The AFL wanted them to accept the deal because the Moreton Bay council offered them $10m for the construction of a new administration centre - which means the AFL wouldn't have to tip in money.

Brisbane were then criticised for heavily investigating the Springfield option which was 25 kilometres from the city, involved a $15 million grant from the Federal Government as well as a 99 year peppercorn rent for $1 a year. The city had already invested $20 million in infrastructure surrounding the site, including access to the train station. The local Council had applied for $10 million through the Queensland Government's Royalties to Regions Program and $10 million from the Australian Government's National Stronger Regions Fund. Joint funding of $8.5 million from council and Springfield Land Corporation had been confirmed for the project. Given that Ipswich is predicted to grow from the current number of 190,000 people to around 435,000 by 2031, it's clear the Lions were trying to future-proof the club in terms of future population growth and support base, especially in light of the establishment of the GC Suns further south.

Distance from the Gabba was a problem. So too was a lack of federal funding.

That it eventually fell through was not because of the Lions - or because there was supposedly a conflict of interest that led to Board conflict. It fell through because the new Federal Government withdrew the $15 million grant for the facility, after the previous Federal government had approved it.

I have my doubts on the location as I've stated before

And what exactly are those doubts?

The Airport site has proximity to central Brisbane, is 11 kilometres from the Gabba, is easily accessible from all over Brisbane, has adequate space for the Club’s current needs and possible future expansion and accessibility to the Lions Academy catchment.

 

[JeffDunne]

Once again. The Lions rejected Burpengary because it was too far away from the city - 35 kilometres. The AFL wanted them to accept the deal because the Moreton Bay council offered them $10m for the construction of a new administration centre - which means the AFL wouldn't have to tip in money.

Brisbane were then criticised for heavily investigating the Springfield option which was 25 kilometres from the city, involved a $15 million grant from the Federal Government as well as a 99 year peppercorn rent for $1 a year. The city had already invested $20 million in infrastructure surrounding the site, including access to the train station. The local Council had applied for $10 million through the Queensland Government's Royalties to Regions Program and $10 million from the Australian Government's National Stronger Regions Fund. Joint funding of $8.5 million from council and Springfield Land Corporation had been confirmed for the project. Given that Ipswich is predicted to grow from the current number of 190,000 people to around 435,000 by 2031, it's clear the Lions were trying to future-proof the club in terms of future population growth and support base, especially in light of the establishment of the GC Suns further south.

Distance from the Gabba was a problem. So too was a lack of federal funding.

That it eventually fell through was not because of the Lions - or because there was supposedly a conflict of interest that led to Board conflict. It fell through because the new Federal Government withdrew the $15 million grant for the facility, after the previous Federal government had approved it.



And what exactly are those doubts?

The Airport site has proximity to central Brisbane, is 11 kilometres from the Gabba, is easily accessible from all over Brisbane, has adequate space for the Club’s current needs and possible future expansion and accessibility to the Lions Academy catchment.

We've been through all this before so I won't bother repeating myself (maybe you can cat&paste my reply too) but I do have one question, if distance from the Gabba was a central concern with both Burpengary & Springfield then why did the club waste time, money & resources on exploring them?

FWIW, Seaford is further from Docklands than Burpengary is from the Gabba.

 

[kenberger]

Too many knuckle draggers here in Queensland. They don't appreciate sport that is actually skillful, they just want to see fat blokes crash into each other repeatedly. Scoring doesn't even matter so long as someone gets hurt.

C'mon mate, surely you appreciate the biff... And the inherent need to bring it back

 

[Elixuh]

So a club who couldn't reach an agreement with their local council, found a solution 20km's away so they would have access to an elite training facility, somehow proves Brisbane are victims?

As for your last comment, that's just straight out Brisbane propaganda.

So we should have rushed into a deal to secure anything available (because something is better than nothing) instead of taking the time to explore and develop more beneficial opportunities? Surely you want the Lions to make some proper and well thought out decisions? That way we're not sitting here in 5 years time saying "the Burpengary facilities are impractical why did we move there?" and you're saying "ooo well you should have explored other options. This is just another example of complete mismanagement by the Lions." It seems like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't in your scenarios.

And nowhere have I said that the Lions are victims.

 

[Sausages]

We've been through all this before so I won't bother repeating myself (maybe you can cat&paste my reply too) but I do have one question, if distance from the Gabba was a central concern with both Burpengary & Springfield then why did the club waste time, money & resources on exploring them?

FWIW, Seaford is further from Docklands than Burpengary is from the Gabba.

Because as you pointed out in this response:

Keep the AFL happy and it usually means you win in trade off elsewhere. I suspect this is one of those deals.

(if you do what they tell ya), the AFL liked both of those areas because they were going to be specific AFL facilities.

But, we didn't feel they were in the best interests of our club, so they were killed off.

 

[Roylion]

We've been through all this before so I won't bother repeating myself (maybe you can cat&paste my reply too)

I'll ask again. What exactly are your doubts with the Airport site?

if distance from the Gabba was a central concern with both Burpengary & Springfield then why did the club waste time, money & resources on exploring them?

I would have thought from my explanation above that was obvious. Funding was available from various sources. The Springfield option fell through because the new Federal Government withdrew the $15 million grant for the facility, after the previous Federal government had approved it.

FWIW, Seaford is further from Docklands than Burpengary is from the Gabba.

I didn't realise the Saints were staying at Seaford development, after the Frankston Council spent $3 million enticing them there, over six years ago. Not to mention the funds injected into the development by the Victorian State Government ($3.45 million), the AFL ($2.55 million) and St Kilda ($1.43 million, plus all additional costs).

I guess that $5 million the Kingston council is providing to re-develop Moorabbin to get the Saints back by 2017 is a bit of a waste of money. Isn't St Kilda spending the same amount ($5 million) at Moorabbin? It seems if there is an AFL club wasting time, money and resources on new facilities, it ain't Brisbane.

Leigh Montagna. "A lot of guys lived around the Moorabbin area and it was just more the travel, getting down to Seaford. It was what we needed at the time and we were grateful to Frankston for giving us that opportunity, but pretty quickly I think we outgrew the facility."

Sounds like a well thought out decision by St Kilda. Caroline Wilson called St Kilda's move to Seaford "one of the worst decisions in the club’s 117-year history."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/st-kildas-sorry-seaford-sojourn-20140410-zqt75.html

And yet the Lions should have rushed into Burpengary because in your words "it would be better than nothing". Please.

 

[Roylion]

That way we're not sitting here in 5 years time saying "the Burpengary facilities are impractical why did we move there?" and you're saying "ooo well you should have explored other options. This is just another example of complete mismanagement by the Lions."

We should follow St Kilda's example instead. Moorabbin --> Seaford --> Moorabbin.

Moving to Seaford was a great decision.

 

[JeffDunne]

I'll ask again. What exactly are your doubts with the Airport site?

Do we know where exactly the current plan is to be located? The airport precinct is a large area with a lot of different industries.

If you can tell me that and I'll tell you what's wrong with it.

I would have thought from my explanation above that was obvious. Funding was available from various sources. The Springfield option fell through because the new Federal Government withdrew the $15 million grant for the facility, after the previous Federal government had approved it.

Funding doesn't drop out of the sky.

Springfield was never going to happen. All that nonsense about Ipswich's growth potential is irrelevant claptrap.

I didn't realise the Saints were staying at Seaford development, after the Frankston Council spent $3 million enticing them there, over six years ago. Not to mention the funds injected into the development by the Victorian State Government ($3.45 million), the AFL ($2.55 million) and St Kilda ($1.43 million, plus all additional costs).

I guess that $5 million the Kingston council is providing to re-develop Moorabbin to get the Saints back by 2017 is a bit of a waste of money. Isn't St Kilda spending the same amount ($5 million) at Moorabbin? It seems if there is an AFL club wasting time, money and resources on new facilities, it ain't Brisbane.

Leigh Montagna. "A lot of guys lived around the Moorabbin area and it was just more the travel, getting down to Seaford. It was what we needed at the time and we were grateful to Frankston for giving us that opportunity, but pretty quickly I think we outgrew the facility."

Sounds like a well thought out decision by St Kilda. Caroline Wilson called St Kilda's move to Seaford "one of the worst decisions in the club’s 117-year history."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/st-kildas-sorry-seaford-sojourn-20140410-zqt75.html

And yet the Lions should have rushed into Burpengary because in your words "it would be better than nothing". Please.

It's actually pretty comical that you're throwing stones at anyone for mismanagement.

In the time Brisbane have been talking about the need for such a facility, we went out and built one despite intractable differences with our local council & are now building a better suited facility which we'll move into probably before Brisbane have even started building one.

What was that copy & paste quote you had from Billy Longer and why he joined St Kilda?

St Kilda made a strategic decision because they couldn't wait any longer. We could have done what Brisbane have done but only a fool would do that.

 

[JeffDunne]

So we should have rushed into a deal to secure anything available (because something is better than nothing) instead of taking the time to explore and develop more beneficial opportunities? Surely you want the Lions to make some proper and well thought out decisions? That way we're not sitting here in 5 years time saying "the Burpengary facilities are impractical why did we move there?" and you're saying "ooo well you should have explored other options. This is just another example of complete mismanagement by the Lions." It seems like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't in your scenarios.

Of course people (especially the AFL or anyone else stumping up cash) wants Brisbane to make well thought out decisions.

Was Burpengary well thought out? Was Springfield well thought out?

Has the much hyped Airport development been well thought out? I'm guessing no or they wouldn't be having the trouble finding funding for it.

 

[Doggies 06]

The AFL needs to step in and make some monumental changes to this club.

Money = Required to remove the toxic culture that has infiltrated this club.

The AFL need to:
Hand pick a new board and President.
(Like they did with Melbourne)
Hand pick a new CEO
(Like they did with Melbourne)

Use AFL money to payout and move on the CEO and all of the coaching and support staff.
(Like they did with Melbourne)

Get the base fixed first people!

The Dees had almost given up when the AFL stepped in and helped them.

With the right kind of help.

No Priority Picks were handed out much to the Dee's bitter disappointment.

But look at what has happened only 3 years later.

Kick in some AFL money for a new Brisbane training base, and then slowly but surely things will get better.

A highly fancied skinny 18 year old slotted into a poisonous environment isn't the answer to fix Brisbane.

Are there more hard times ahead?
Yes

Can this mess be fixed eventually?
Yes

 

[Marc_Remillard]

I don't think you'll find many lions fans who don't agree that it is the lions fault that caused this. We had a board for years more interested in how they can use the club for personal gain and poor on field results. We've now had a change of board and a change of coach yet we are still arguably in a worse off position then we were five years ago. We're else are we left to turn other than the AFL?

We've seen what they've done to help Melbourne. We have arguably been just as poor in the last ten years yet have had no priority picks, no help in getting a half decent coach and most our talented youngsters walk out (yes I know we have no one to blame but ourselves for that). However we need assistance and the only people who can give it to us are the AFL. The academies have already been watered down and will probably be further watered down in the future.

Just not sure how particularly the Melbourne supporters in this thread can claim that we've dug our own grave and we have to sleep in it when they did the exact same thing only to be dragged out by the AFL. Both Jesse hogan and Paul Roos would be at Brisbane if it wasn't for AFL intervention..... So quickly some forget that.

Wow, there are so many things wrong with this post.

Firstly the Melbourne members were the ones who dug into our pockets to remove our debt and secure a chance to get a training base with better facilities. The continual lies that come lion fans claiming that the AFL did everything for us is total crap.

There was never a chance that Paul Roos was going to the Lions. I have no idea where this fantasy came from.

 

[Roylion]

Do we know where exactly the current plan is to be located?

Surely you know that. You said you had doubts about it. So what are they?

If you can tell me that and I'll tell you what's wrong with it.

Tell me what your existing doubts are. You said you had them. So what are they as they currently stand?

Funding doesn't drop out of the sky.

No kidding.

Springfield was never going to happen.

Wasn't it? Why not?

It's actually pretty comical that you're throwing stones at anyone for mismanagement.

You're the one criticising Brisbane's process for selecting a long term training and administration and the time, money and resources spent. Turns out whatever Brisbane have done in relation to securing a long term training and admin base, it hasn't been as expensive and wasteful as St Kilda's.

In the time Brisbane have been talking about the need for such a facility, we went out and built one despite intractable differences with our local council

And wasted millions of dollars in the process - of which at least a million has come from the club's own coffers. Not to mention "time" and resources." That's what you're criticising Brisbane for isnt it?

& are now building a better suited facility which we'll move into probably before Brisbane have even started building one.

Well its about time. Six years after moving to Seaford. What Caroline Wilson called the worst decision in St Kilda's history.

What was that copy & paste quote you had from Billy Longer and why he joined St Kilda?

Do a search. It's easily found.

St Kilda made a strategic decision because they couldn't wait any longer. We could have done what Brisbane have done but only a fool would do that.

Brisbane will make the correct decision for its long term future and will waste far less of their own money - not to mention far less ratepayers and tax-payers money - in the process. They won't spend six years in a white elephant" only to move again.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Lions need the Cecil treatment.

 

[Roylion]

I'm guessing no or they wouldn't be having the trouble finding funding for it.

Seaford must have been well thought out in that case, because they found funding for that. Six years later...

 

[JeffDunne]

Caroline Wilson?

Surely you're shitting me with that one?

And I'll ask again because no Brisbane supporter seems to know, where exactly is this new facility to be located?

I know it's not at the same location as the earlier proposal where the Lions wanted to help fund a training facility that would have been used in part for rugby.
(and the Lions were surprised the AFL didn't want to fund that!)

 

[JeffDunne]

Seaford must have been well thought out in that case, because they found funding for that. Six years later...

Huh?

 

[Chuckie357]

Aee Brisbane kicking around rocks or something while everyone else have sherrins? Seems to be a lot of talk they are doing poorly because of the facilities. Didn't a no body team with a bigger all budget win the English premier league not long ago when a lot of the teams have a mammoth budget in comparison? The problem surely has to be an internal one, I definatley don't agree with past players coaching their playing team, would never want Robert Harvey to coach the saints. Perfect example of this is Brisbane, had 2 former premiership players coach and both seem to have no idea at all what they are doing. Maybe they were and are living in their own glory era and are not up too it?

Or maybe the afl just really really really hates Fitzroy and just want to see them gone completely forever in every possible way.

Quesrion: how successful wear the Bears from when they came in and to the almagnation?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Caroline Wilson?

Surely you're shitting me with that one?

And I'll ask again because no Brisbane supporter seems to know, where exactly is this new facility to be located?

I know it's not at the same location as the earlier proposal where the Lions wanted to help fund a training facility that would have been used in part for rugby.
(and the Lions were surprised the AFL didn't want to fund that!)

Between Airport Drive and Moreton drive. 12 hectare greenfields site.

Same site the Brisbane Bombers consortium wants but the BAC thinks their business case is laughable and relies on the Liverpools of the world coming every year and emptying their pockets.

 

[JeffDunne]

Between Airport Drive and Moreton drive. 12 hectare greenfields site.

Same site the Brisbane Bombers consortium wants but the BAC thinks their business case is laughable and relies on the Liverpools of the world coming every year and emptying their pockets.

Cheers. So it is the same site?

I'm assuming therefore that's it pretty much reliant then on federal government funding?

 

[Roylion]

Caroline Wilson?

Surely you're shitting me with that one?

That's what she said.

And I'll ask again because no Brisbane supporter seems to know, where exactly is this new facility to be located?

Why does that make a difference? Crown land to the immediate west of the airport near the international terminal. You said you had doubts about the airport proposal. So what are they?

I know it's not at the same location as the earlier proposal where the Lions wanted to help fund a training facility that would have been used in part for rugby.
(and the Lions were surprised the AFL didn't want to fund that!)

Would have been similar to the AAMI Park precinct in Melbourne where the AFL’s Demons, NRL’s Storm, Super Rugby’s Rebels and A-League’s Victory are permanent tenants.

 

[JeffDunne]

That's what she said.

So?

St Kilda have made numerous mistakes over the past century. Seaford wouldn't even make the top 100.

Why does that make a difference? Crown land to the immediate west of the airport near the international terminal. You said you had doubts about the airport proposal. So what are they?

Why does it make a difference? Well there's a big difference between airport drive & some swamp in Pinkenba.

As for my doubts on this proposal, well in it's original form it sounded like a typical SEQ pipe-dream. If the proposal is now either the general purpose elite sporting facility or the Lions (not both) then it makes sense as a location for the Lions. However I'd still have some concerns about it satisfying the AFL's broader concerns for football in Brisbane but that's a secondary issue for the Lions (except in terms of how much the AFL will kick in).

If the Lions are going it alone there then the biggest question would be who pays for it?

Would have been similar to the AAMI Park precinct in Melbourne where the AFL’s Demons, NRL’s Storm, Super Rugby’s Rebels and A-League’s Victory are permanent tenants.

Nonsense.

Nothing like it.