Brisbane needs help: 2016

[Leemas]

*sigh*

It was a general comment on the logic of giving priority picks to clubs that aren't performing.

I didn't make comment on Brisbane's environment specifically. However when you're getting the shit kicked out you a football club is never a good environment so I assume it's not ideal.

Brisbane think Brisbane is a shit place for footballers. Convince them or at least get them to stop whinging about it.

This doesn't even make any sense. Just because on field results are poor doesn't mean the environment is shit. The more you post the more it shows you that you have never in fact stepped inside a football club. I've played at a reasonable high level both rep and club footy. I can say the most successful teams I was Involved with were the least enjoyable years of footy I played. While the average teams I played with had the best blokes/best environment to enjoy myself in. There's a reason the players keep buying in.

 

[dmac_55]

How can Brisbanes 2016 season be compared with Melbourne's 2013? Essendon have had 12 players suspended and had to rely on top up players to fulfill their list from state leagues and recently retired footballers.. Brisbane has 2 wins, with our biggest win of the season coming against this side..

2016 is almost an asterix year historically.. How would our record compare if Essendon had its full playing squad and we lost by 4-5 goals against them? 1 win less than Melbourne and comparable % to the Dee's..

No one can categorically state that Melbourne were worse than Brisbane and 'didn't receive a PP'.. We suck and we may suck even more than 2013 Melburne

 

[a mayes ing]

Traded out 12 and Henderson (pick 8) for Fevola. Traded pick 5 for Beams. Allowed Leuenberger to go to Essendon as a restricted free agent so they could get the compo.

Four first round picks now at other clubs who have spent a lot of 2016 running around in state leagues (Clark, Longer, Aish, Polec).

Other than Docherty it's hard to see how this is not a reflection of deliberate trading decisions and poor drafting.

Henderson deal was a ridiculous deal in hind sight. Although Fev was the reining Coleman medalist. The board who made that decision is gone.

Pick 5 and others for Beams, at the time anyone would have made the deal. When he is playing, he is probably one of the top 20 mids in the comp.

Leuey to Essendon, constantly injured for us and was behind Martin in the pecking order so he was in the reserves. Best for both player and club. Some supporters would have preferred we keep Leuey and trade Martin tho.

We didn't have a choice with Longer, Aish, Polec, Docherty as they wanted to go home. We would have preferred to keep them all (well maybe not Aish lol, such a dud but he still would have been snapped up by someone in the top 10 if it wasn't us, Polec has shown flashes of brilliance but consistency is his downfall, Longer is a ruckman so will always need a long time to develop)

Clark would actually be playing in the seniors atm, but isn't he injured or still has that mental problem?

 

[Prince Imperial]

Henderson deal was a ridiculous deal in hind sight. Although Fev was the reining Coleman medalist. The board who made that decision is gone.

Pick 5 and others for Beams, at the time anyone would have made the deal. When he is playing, he is probably one of the top 20 mids in the comp.

Leuey to Essendon, constantly injured for us and was behind Martin in the pecking order so he was in the reserves. Best for both player and club. Some supporters would have preferred we keep Leuey and trade Martin tho.

We didn't have a choice with Longer, Aish, Polec, Docherty as they wanted to go home. We would have preferred to keep them all (well maybe not Aish lol, such a dud but he still would have been snapped up by someone in the top 10 if it wasn't us, Polec has shown flashes of brilliance but consistency is his downfall, Longer is a ruckman so will always need a long time to develop)

Clark would actually be playing in the seniors atm, but isn't he injured or still has that mental problem?

Clark was injured in the first half of the year and has been playing in the VFL since. Inside Football said this about his only AFL game: "Comeback game forgettable. Offered nothing up forward and little in ruck." Would probably be getting a game at the Lions but given his injury history and mental health concerns and age, I can't see that he's a huge loss.

I agree the list management decisions re Beams and Leuenberger were reasonable. Longer may come good I agree, but with the benefit of hindsight at this stage, picks 5, 7 and 8 on Polec, Aish and Longer look like ordinary choices but they did net you four picks in the 20s which are all conveniently excluded by focusing only on top 20 picks.

Docherty is a ripper and Carlton stitched you up, so I think that supports the case for a priority pick.

 

[cotter101]

Give the priority pick to them.

And then disband the option completely.

Pathetic club.

Whilst I'm not necessarily in favor of us receiving a PP pick, an Essendon supporter calling our club pathetic given all that's happened the last few years at their club is pathetic.

Essendon certainly don't deserve the first pick of the National Draft.

 

[Toump Ass]

I know for a fact that regardless of on field results he young blokes are absolutely loving Brisbane and it is quite far from a toxic environment.

No shit, they get paid a six figure salary to do absolutely **** all. I'd sign up for that.

No one can categorically state that Melbourne were worse than Brisbane and 'didn't receive a PP'.. We suck and we may suck even more than 2013 Melburne

Bullshit.

Leppaman said in the press conference that Brisbane were missing a third of their best 22. How did that compare to the Demons in 2013?

 

[JeffDunne]

Whilst I'm not necessarily in favor of us receiving a PP pick, an Essendon supporter calling our club pathetic given all that's happened the last few years at their club is pathetic.

Essendon certainly don't deserve the first pick of the National Draft.

The draft order isn't a merit based allocation.

If you think Essendon are a more pathetic club than Brisbane then you're actually arguing the opposite of what you think you are.

Why is so hard for Brisbane supporters to admit they're a rabble, yet so easy for those same supporters to argue for concessions?

 

[Jade]

Whilst I'm not necessarily in favor of us receiving a PP pick, an Essendon supporter calling our club pathetic given all that's happened the last few years at their club is pathetic.

Essendon certainly don't deserve the first pick of the National Draft.

What is it with people that think Essendons issue is a trump card that proves whatever view is being presented by an Essendon fan is somehow invalid?

Essendon ****ed up. I don't dispute that, but their is an extraordinary gulf between our two clubs.

We're still one of the highest attended, wealthiest clubs in the game.

Our corporate governance is second to none, our facilities are state of the art, our list is strong.

I had a conversation with a certain ex-Brisbane player a few months ago who described at some length what Brisbane was actually like as a club. He detailed the state of your facilities (and believe me I know what a detriment that can be, Windy Hill was a dump five years before we left it), he spoke of coaching, both senior and other, his impressions of the board and so on.

I shit you not, he damn near sneered, as in disgusted - when trying to describe Brisbane.

In short, he thinks Brisbane is pathetic. I can't remember the EXACT words he used, but paraphrased he said:

"they're not even a football club compared to everyone else"

The thing is, we don't need that sort of conversation to see what is quite clearly very plain - that club is an absolute basket case.

If you give them draft assistance (yet another way to **** with the draft), what happens? Is it two years or three before that highly regarded youngster decides that his club is a shithole and requests a trade to Hawthorn, or Collingwood, or Adelaide - ANYWHERE but the Lions?

What you need is a change of board, a change in executive, a change in coaching. You need a heavy investment in your facilities, a frank discussion with the AFL regarding sponsorship.

Hell, you need everything BUT draft assistance.

 

[cotter101]

The draft order isn't a merit based allocation.

If you think Essendon are a more pathetic club than Brisbane then you're actually arguing the opposite of what you think you are.

Why is so hard for Brisbane supporters to admit they're a rabble, yet so easy for those same supporters to argue for concessions?

I don't think you will find a single post from me where I've made an argument in favor of us getting draft concessions. I'm happy to admit we're a rabble right now and have been for a while.

 

[Fatcat08]

The draft order isn't a merit based allocation.

If you think Essendon are a more pathetic club than Brisbane then you're actually arguing the opposite of what you think you are.

Why is so hard for Brisbane supporters to admit they're a rabble, yet so easy for those same supporters to argue for concessions?

I feel like you take this view that Brisbane supporters don't think any of this is the doing of people who either are or were involved with the club, when the exact opposite is true. Almost all lions supporters know there are major issues that need to be fixed both from a personnel and process point of view yet you continue to project this incorrect assumption that you seemed to have formed. There needs to be significant internal change at the lions in the offseason, most particularly in the football department (and not just the coaching staff). That is something most lions supporters agree with. However that doesn't exclude people from discussing some sort of concession to bundle with this sort of change to help accelerate the rebuild process.

You obviously have a massive axe to grind when it comes to the lions as a club, but projecting that hatred onto its supporters and members is not only wrong but fairly offensive.

 

[Last of the Roys]

The draft order isn't a merit based allocation.

If you think Essendon are a more pathetic club than Brisbane then you're actually arguing the opposite of what you think you are.

Why is so hard for Brisbane supporters to admit they're a rabble, yet so easy for those same supporters to argue for concessions?

I see you are keeping up your average as the main person posting in this thread. Earlier today you were sitting on just over 5% of all posts in this thread. That is quite remarkable for a thread that has been going for two years and is getting close to 1,500 posts.

Not obsessed with trolling Brisbane in the slightest are you?

To pretend to take your overall premise at face value for a second, it is bizarre beyond belief.

Something along the lines of Brisbane are / have been a rabble / it is all their own making, so they don't deserve help.

I mean WTF???

Firstly there is virtually no one arguing that the Lions haven't contributed to their current predicament.

Secondly you seem to argue variously that this contribution should preclude any help from the AFL or that the help won't work (depending on where you are trying to shift the goal posts at the time).

When in history has their been a team that didn't contribute in some way to their own problems??? All past / recent help from the AFL could be precluded in an instant on that basis alone.

Should we take that attitude to wider society as well and wipe out the overwhelming majority of government spending overnight?

Obviously there is a genuine problem created in over rewarding / creating incentives for bad behaviour. But this situation is nowhere near that threshold.

It is simply about helping provide a base they can be built upon to allow the Club to start to develop and eventually be competitive again. That help probably needs to take a number of forms and there is no silver bullet.

And of course the Lions ultimately have to take ownership of the problems and the decisions needed to make the Club successful again.

But all of that precisely shows why your simplistic and petty black and white arguments ultimately just show you up for who you really are - an unashamed partisan troll with an ongoing personal grudge against the Lions.

 

[Sando22]

It's ridiculous for Brisbane to keep making reference to the number of first round picks on their list as an indication of how poorly they've been treated.

That lack of talent is a reflection of how poorly they've drafted and how poorly they've managed their list. Nothing more.

This.

 

[dmac_55]

No shit, they get paid a six figure salary to do absolutely **** all. I'd sign up for that.

Bullshit.

Leppaman said in the press conference that Brisbane were missing a third of their best 22. How did that compare to the Demons in 2013?

Mitch Clark only 4 games in 2013, new recruit and highly paid Chris Dawes missed half the season.. Your point is ridiculous and the only sure fire best 18 that could make an impact that we didn't have on the weekend IMO were Beams Christensen and Stef Martin.. Every club has injuries every year and I bet some players at Melbourne were put out to pasture for early surgeries etc in 2013..

I just don't understand how Melbourne categorically state that they were worse than us in 2013, where to me it is lineball.

 

[Leemas]

No shit, they get paid a six figure salary to do absolutely **** all. I'd sign up for that.

Bullshit.

Leppaman said in the press conference that Brisbane were missing a third of their best 22. How did that compare to the Demons in 2013?

You really put the ass in your name.

 

[Toump Ass]

Mitch Clark only 4 games in 2013, new recruit and highly paid Chris Dawes missed half the season..

Chris Dawes' paycheque is irrelevant, he missed less than half a season, and for what it's worth, he's actually not very good.

Your point is ridiculous and the only sure fire best 18 that could make an impact that we didn't have on the weekend IMO were Beams Christensen and Stef Martin..

That's not what your coach said. He said the Lions were missing a third of the side.

You've had plenty of injuries during the rest of the year which have impacted your current ladder position.

I just don't understand how Melbourne categorically state that they were worse than us in 2013...

Because it's a fact. Our only win against a non-franchise side for the entire season was by three points. We were the only side that GWS beat. We were much, much worse.

 

[Toump Ass]

I've played at a reasonable high level both rep and club footy. I can say the most successful teams I was Involved with were the least enjoyable years of footy I played. While the average teams I played with had the best blokes/best environment to enjoy myself in. There's a reason the players keep buying in.

You should give your club a call, there's probably a spot for you at the moment.

 

[Leemas]

You should give your club a call, there's probably a spot for you at the moment.

Nope I played with a few blokes who are now on the lions list and I'm no where near there level.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Mitch Clark only 4 games in 2013, new recruit and highly paid Chris Dawes missed half the season.. Your point is ridiculous and the only sure fire best 18 that could make an impact that we didn't have on the weekend IMO were Beams Christensen and Stef Martin.. Every club has injuries every year and I bet some players at Melbourne were put out to pasture for early surgeries etc in 2013..

I just don't understand how Melbourne categorically state that they were worse than us in 2013, where to me it is lineball.

The only way that the argument could be made is looking at the for and against for each team.

I think as a club Melbourne were far worse, our culture was terrible, can that be said for Brisbane right now? Off the field Melbourne were an absolute train wreck.

But (and it's a big But) Melbourne were forced to take Peter Jackson as our CEO, is anyone at Brisbane capable of turning around your club in the same way?

I think Brisbane should get a pp, it should be pick 1 but the points should go to Academy players and any left over points could be banked over a period of 5 years. That way the AFL can assist them to get local kids but still use their normal picks to improve their list.

 

[wowlace]

Brissy need exactly what the AFL did for Melbourne and some.

Completely new board and coach, plus a PP. Maybe some COLA.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

The only way that the argument could be made is looking at the for and against for each team.

I think as a club Melbourne were far worse, our culture was terrible, can that be said for Brisbane right now? Off the field Melbourne were an absolute train wreck.

But (and it's a big But) Melbourne were forced to take Peter Jackson as our CEO, is anyone at Brisbane capable of turning around your club in the same way?

I think Brisbane should get a pp, it should be pick 1 but the points should go to Academy players and any left over points could be banked over a period of 5 years. That way the AFL can assist them to get local kids but still use their normal picks to improve their list.

Seen a few suggestion about any priority pick being tied to the academy process, what type result do you see with your suggestion ?

The end result I see is an accumulation of later picks to be used on interstate prospects, as we already have priority access to these academy players. I just don't think this really address much of the talent issue.

 

[Topkent]

Instead of a PP the AFL should try be more creative and say give the lions there academy players at 50% or even more, dont hurt the other bottom 4 clubs by taking the player they should get.

Melbourne had an average age of 23.6 and games experience of 66
Hawthorn had 26.6 and 130

Brisbane had an average of 23 and games experience of 67
Adelaide had an average of 25 and experience of 84 games


So statistically Melbourne were LESS experienced that Brisbane on the weekend, we shouldnt be that far clear of them on the ladder and better in General
There club has more problems than a PP would ever give them

 

[dmac_55]

Instead of a PP the AFL should try be more creative and say give the lions there academy players at 50% or even more, dont hurt the other bottom 4 clubs by taking the player they should get.

Melbourne had an average age of 23.6 and games experience of 66
Hawthorn had 26.6 and 130

Brisbane had an average of 23 and games experience of 67
Adelaide had an average of 25 and experience of 84 games


So statistically Melbourne were LESS experienced that Brisbane on the weekend, we shouldnt be that far clear of them on the ladder and better in General
There club has more problems than a PP would ever give them

I am sure if we lined up all players against a wall that are 23 and under and had to choose teams schoolyard style that Melbourne would dominate the early picks compared to Brisbane.. Melbourne have had a bevy of first round picks and they are really starting to come along, whereas our lack of high end draft talent and poor development has resulted in our U23 talent being either very young (Schache, Hipwood, Andrews) or not as developed as melbournes. It reminds me of the Bulldogs from last year, their list was so young but bursting with talent and far better than some more experienced sides.. I believe the dogs were nearly the youngest side in 2015 but performed extremely well with U23 talent in Bont, Stringer, Dahl, Macrae all having exceptional impact..

 

[Topkent]

I am sure if we lined up all players against a wall that are 23 and under and had to choose teams schoolyard style that Melbourne would dominate the early picks compared to Brisbane.. Melbourne have had a bevy of first round picks and they are really starting to come along, whereas our lack of high end draft talent and poor development has resulted in our U23 talent being either very young (Schache, Hipwood, Andrews) or not as developed as melbournes. It reminds me of the Bulldogs from last year, their list was so young but bursting with talent and far better than some more experienced sides.. I believe the dogs were nearly the youngest side in 2015 but performed extremely well with U23 talent in Bont, Stringer, Dahl, Macrae all having exceptional impact..

Our under 23 isnt hugely developed though?
Hogan, Hunt, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver, Weiderman, Omac, Wagner, Stretch, Vandenburg have all played under 30 games
While Frost, Gawn, Bugg, Kennedy, Salem, Neal Bullen etc have all played under 60

Your problem isnt the players you have, its the whole club and everything behind it

 

[Marc_Remillard]

I posted the below in the sack Leppa thread but it's probably more relevant here

They need more than that, they need to completely rebuild the club like Melbourne did.

I've seen the argument from Lion fans that they are just as bad (or more so) as we were under Neeld and deserve help. I think we can safely say that their recent results can now confirm it. The AFL have to step in and do something, the competition can't have another Neeld-esque team running around for another couple of years.

What I don't understand though is the attitude of a lot of Brisbane fans. Back during the Neeld days the Melbourne supporters as a group wanted change at the club, we wanted Neeld gone, we also wanted those at the top gone who were responsible for the decision making that got us into the mess. Schwab, Connolly, the president and the board, recruiting, all had to go and we had to start again.

Lions fans though, led by Roylion, continue to defend the club and blame everyone and everything else for their demise. There has been a bit of a shift though, which is good to see.

 

[Happy_Neale]

I posted the below in the sack Leppa thread but it's probably more relevant here

They need more than that, they need to completely rebuild the club like Melbourne did.

I've seen the argument from Lion fans that they are just as bad (or more so) as we were under Neeld and deserve help. I think we can safely say that their recent results can now confirm it. The AFL have to step in and do something, the competition can't have another Neeld-esque team running around for another couple of years.

What I don't understand though is the attitude of a lot of Brisbane fans. Back during the Neeld days the Melbourne supporters as a group wanted change at the club, we wanted Neeld gone, we also wanted those at the top gone who were responsible for the decision making that got us into the mess. Schwab, Connolly, the president and the board, recruiting, all had to go and we had to start again.

Lions fans though, led by Roylion, continue to defend the club and blame everyone and everything else for their demise. There has been a bit of a shift though, which is good to see.

Because it is totally fair to generalise all fans opinions. I suppose all Melbourne fans were pleased they tanked to get Scully? I suppose all Melbourne fans are happier with Jack Watts over Naitanui? After all I saw a thread on it on the main board. Melbourne supporters, right?!