Play Nice Bye bye Brad

[Thewlis Dish]

We brought in Waite because he was free! Who wouldn't!

 

[Only Forwards]

Nothing is ever free.



Ever.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Nothing is ever free.



Ever.

Except herpes.

 

[Passmore]

Higgins has been fantastic. We probably can't truly judge the merits for a good 5 years until we see what these late draft picks amount too. In all likelihood probably nothing.

I hardly think that the club can be too heavily criticised for having a crack and managing to have 3 1st rd pucks at the same time.

 

[RobZombie]

end of last year we had BBB and Drew and Black.

Despite having plenty of potential KPFs on the list at the end of last year, there were also a ton of question marks. Waite was avaliable, cheap, and talented. Viewed in isolation rather than as half of HigginsandWaite it's an entirely defensible signing.

BBB - 11 games, history of knee trouble
Petrie - durable but close to retirement
Black - coming off shoulder reco and not a true KPF
Wood - 1 game, not a true KPF
Daw - dislocated ankle, legal question, might not make it at senior level
Tarrant - injury plagued, since converted to KPD
Hansen - settled back in defense

As part of HigginsandWaite it's tempting to view it differently, I know.

Of course it's never "free". There's opportunity cost in choosing to not to take a punt on a fourth rounder, and potentially the development and flight risk of players stuck behind him in the VFL. If it costs us 6 years of quality football from the likes of Black because he goes to Freo and flourishes I'll be more pissed off than it costing us a gamble on a Reece McKenzie. The club's list management MO the last few years seems to be that there's not much value outside the first three rounds (low chance of success at senior list salaries and 2 year minimum contracts) and the RD is the place for speculative picks and development projects (RL salaries, can let them go after one year if it doesn't work out).

It's always the way that VFL form and opportunities don't line up how you'd like. Black has turned the corner in the twos at the exact moment the penny drops with Waite about how they want him to play. Last year Wood's form and fitness didn't line up with Black's run of terrible games. It will be a challenge for the FD to keep a few guys happy for the rest of the season.

 

[B4Bear]

We didn't lose picks acquiring Higgins & Waite, but we did lose the list spot that could have been given to a first year draftee.

Waite I agree.

Higgins, totally disagree. HE will be with us for quite a few more years, and has been invaluable this year.

He and Dal Santo, despite his age and that one injury are the FA picks of their respective years. Both brought finals experience and class, something we sorely lacked. Oh and they happen to be excellent footballers that can help teach those 19 year old draftees too.

 

[hilly]

Wow, for free! Surplus drums of mayonnaise from operation "Desert Storm!

 

[hiddink]

Despite having plenty of potential KPFs on the list at the end of last year, there were also a ton of question marks. Waite was avaliable, cheap, and talented. Viewed in isolation rather than as half of HigginsandWaite it's an entirely defensible signing.

BBB - 11 games, history of knee trouble
Petrie - durable but close to retirement
Black - coming off shoulder reco and not a true KPF
Wood - 1 game, not a true KPF
Daw - dislocated ankle, legal question, might not make it at senior level
Tarrant - injury plagued, since converted to KPD
Hansen - settled back in defense

As part of HigginsandWaite it's tempting to view it differently, I know.

Of course it's never "free". There's opportunity cost in choosing to not to take a punt on a fourth rounder, and potentially the development and flight risk of players stuck behind him in the VFL. If it costs us 6 years of quality football from the likes of Black because he goes to Freo and flourishes I'll be more pissed off than it costing us a gamble on a Reece McKenzie. The club's list management MO the last few years seems to be that there's not much value outside the first three rounds (low chance of success at senior list salaries and 2 year minimum contracts) and the RD is the place for speculative picks and development projects (RL salaries, can let them go after one year if it doesn't work out).

It's always the way that VFL form and opportunities don't line up how you'd like. Black has turned the corner in the twos at the exact moment the penny drops with Waite about how they want him to play. Last year Wood's form and fitness didn't line up with Black's run of terrible games. It will be a challenge for the FD to keep a few guys happy for the rest of the season.

You make really good points about the actual KPF's but Brad Scott's gameplan has all 3 (BBB, Dish and Waite) playing at the same time, in the same team. So the question is, can Black come in for a smaller type?

I agree with you though, Waite was a good get. Black is under contract and if he can't challenge Waite, then maybe he shouldn't be playing, good to see he has recently turned the corner in the VFL.

 

[Twinkletoes]

Except herpes.

Not at Tender Touch it's not!

Apparently

 

[BowWow1978]

Yes but those recruits did not cost us anything !!

Waite may yet cost us Black/Daw as he holds back their development and they seek more opportunity elsewhere, only for Waite to retire at the end of next year. His recruitment was also a contributing factor to losing Levi as it restricted the money available (although that's not Waite's fault - it's just a consequence of a sh*t recruiting decision.)

Higgins recruitment at mid tier wages = massive tick
NDS recruitment - also a massive tick. Has been really really good for us and as a durable player probably has another 2-3 good years ahead of him.

We've had some good ones and bad ones.

 

[shintemaster]

I don't have an issue with Waite being brought in. We didn't trust anyone outside of Black last year to get the job done (mostly) - hence why we played him when he could barely lift his arm to scratch his own arse. In the end he (Waite) cost us cash and nothing else - cash which we are required to spend. The only issue is if Waite is played when not deserving of his place and I have to say beyond a few headcase moments I'm not sure I believe that's been the case this year. He like many could probably have deserved to have been dropped but I think he has been more than serviceable in most games. It is up to Black or Daw to dislodge them.

Higgins shouldn't even be a debate, not only has he performed massively he can do so for at least another few years. Teams need to learn from the best and at the moment he is in the top few in his position in the league. Yes we need to build for the future but given teams can go from bottom four to top four in less than a year I don't think it's a huge concern we have brought in either of the 3 without giving up draft picks.

 

[Saintly31]

Our problems as a team have nothing to do with the acquirement of free agents.

Yes there is a certain opportunity cost which is difficult to measure at the current time, but in my opinion all three were worth the gamble and as much as Waite has been disappointing at times, it has certainly not been a disaster.

We need far more of our "talented" players to take the next step to genuine class AFL players who produce basically every week. Cunners, Ziebell, Atley, Bastinac, Thomas, Macmillan Hansen etc don't consistently reach their capabilities, whilst others simply haven't come on as hoped (and some have had runs of injuries contributing to that)

Look at Goldstein. He is now elite. He has taken that step and it's sticks out very noticably.

We need more to take a similar step.

The middle tier players can no longer use youth as an excuse, and too many aren't delivering consistently enough.

Whether this lack of development and output is the fault of the coach or players, or probably both, it is impossible to know but until these middle tier players deliver class football consistently then we are going nowhere fast.......

The free agents were brought in to be the cream, not the cake.

IMO they have had to take too much of the load considering where we should be in our development and age profile. Same goes for the veterans. The 20 to 27 bracket have not been pulling their weight to the standard required of a top quality team.

 

[dus]

Getting Waite was a mistake. If you think he came for "free" then you are too simple.

The best things in life are free. Waite is not this.

 

[Gasometer]

A swallow does not make a summer but the past week has seen me have a little faith in Scotts.

 

[Horizons_00]

I think narni goodbye speech really hit home with the players more than BS has done over the past 6 years

Wish we had more of that type of player that would do anything it takes to play for the kangas at AFL level

I still feel very uneasy about the game this Friday night

 

[LT Smash]

Waite may yet cost us Black/Daw as he holds back their development and they seek more opportunity elsewhere, only for Waite to retire at the end of next year. His recruitment was also a contributing factor to losing Levi as it restricted the money available (although that's not Waite's fault - it's just a consequence of a sh*t recruiting decision.)

Yeah nah, that's not true at all. A little extra money under the cap would not have saved Levi as the list managers simply didn't want to match the Collingwood offer. We could have had a million dollars spare, it still wasn't going to be offered to Levi.

 

[naturally north]

Yeah nah, that's not true at all. A little extra money under the cap would not have saved Levi as the list managers simply didn't want to match the Collingwood offer. We could have had a million dollars spare, it still wasn't going to be offered to Levi.

Doesn't of course mean they made the right decision. A bit like they did when extending this campaigners contract.

 

[King Corey]

Brad back to his fellating best with his new "Hirdy's been through a lot" routine.

Be interesting to see how some of his disciples who aren't exactly enamored with * take to the comments.

 

[blackshadow]

Brad back to his fellating best with his new "Hirdy's been through a lot" routine.

Be interesting to see how some of his disciples who aren't exactly enamored with * take to the comments.

Wild Bills come on down!

Brad should look at how shinboners show their true sympathy for *. Everything dirty hirdy has been through he is responsible for.

 

[Gasometer]

That escalated. ...

 

[Shagga is all Class]

Nothing is ever free.


Ever.

Ryan Griffen is playing for GWS and the Dogs are paying plus they threw in pick 6 or Caleb Marchbank.

Carlton did not even got compo for Waite - so free.

 

[Only Forwards]

Ryan Griffen is playing for GWS and the Dogs are paying plus they threw in pick 6 or Caleb Marchbank.

Carlton did not even got compo for Waite - so free.

And if Black leaves because we're playing a bloke who has 2 years maximum left?

There is cost,perhaps not in how we brought him in but there is cost.

 

[kelman]

And if Black leaves because we're playing a bloke who has 2 years maximum left?

There is cost,perhaps not in how we brought him in but there is cost.

We are not full on salary cap.

There is a cost. It is Tim McGennis.

 

[koshari]

And if Black leaves because we're playing a bloke who has 2 years maximum left?

There is cost,perhaps not in how we brought him in but there is cost.

it wont be a cost because Blacks $hithouse.

 

[koshari]

Hard to say whos doing the most to keep the focus off Brads Job ATM, Goldy (for keeping us in the race) Or Hirdy ( for stealing the limelight).