Play Nice Bye bye Brad

[hotham]

Last year we won two finals and we were then pumped by Sydney in a similar manner to other abysmal finals performances. Brad gets a pass mark when all the repeated 'cannot do' become 'can do'. After the pathetic finals performance we then get again pumped by Adelaide in Round 1. History is a predictor of the future and time is running out. Whatever happened in the off season surely hasn't translated to on field performance. Or has it ?

 

[Queenstreet]

The next three weeks will decide BS future....it is in his hands now...l will reserve my judgement until then...go rooboys!

 

[ROOboy81]

The tigers had no issues burying the gold coast today and bulldogs are currently obliterating a happless melbourne. This team has no killer instinct and it all starts with the coach who settles for 'just good/average' not great.

I agree with everything you have to say Spitta09.......We had the Dees on toast at quarter time and for some inexplicable reason went to sleep for 2 quarters before getting the job done in the last quarter......

Is it that the coach's message isn't getting through or is it that the players have big egos and think they can turn it on whenever they feel like. If certain players aren't performing to the standard required, then they should be dropped.....BS needs to send a stronger message. This team is experienced enough and should be performing at a higher level more consistenly. As an example, Luke Beveridge hasn't been afraid to drop the like of Jackson Macrae, Tom Boyd, etc. if they aren't performing to the standard required. Let me tell you, if we let a team like Freo, Hawthorn get a hold of us like the Saints did in Hobart in the second quarter, we'll be dead and buried by half time.

One thing that hasn't improved under Brad Scott's reign is our team defence.....Why is it that a team which lacks height in defence such as the Bulldogs, conceeds far less points. If it that their midfielders work so much harder to assist their defenders, or is it the way the team structures up as a whole.
I'm no coach, but it frustrates the hell out of me seeing our team continually give away easy goals to the opposition.

 

[niko11]

I friggin luv the passion in this thread i honestly do..
Why? Because most supporters aren't accepting second best and can see what's wrong with this team and coach. Six wins in a row is great. A prelim last year was fantastic!
But u dont win Premierships from 5-8 as most here know and u don't call beating botton teams with one or two good quarters premiership form with the list we have..
Most coaches last three years before losing their job and Brad has been in charge for double that and the same things keep happening.
Beveridge as has been said made the tough calls in his first year and every player knows anything but 100% will do.

Yet Brad said in a recent presser it's going to take a long time to fix the fades..
Brad it's been SIX years and u need more time to fix this!
Ffs everyone here loves this friggin club and it's not a f***en Brad popularity contest.
We all barrack for the blue and white stripes if Brad's message hasn't got through after 6-7 years guess what it never will !! And if Jack or Goldy makes a better Captain instead of Swallow for the good of this club then that's what has to happen.
Nothing wrong with backing Scott like Wild Bill in fact his posts crack me up and alot of times he makes alot of sense and i myself take a step back..
But there is also Absolutely nothing wrong in questioning where our current coach stands after 6 years hell even after the next three weeks if the team doesn't perform to a high level then his current position SHOULD be questioned.
Brad gets paid a decent coin and if its time to move on then so be it. He will survive and get another job and if its at another club as head coach good luck to him.
Our main concern is what the best thing for our club is i coudn't give a rats toss what Brad does after North.
Who will be the next Coach of our club will be my only concern and i have faith that when the time comes North will do everything to interview anyone they choose to get the right man..
Who are the next coaches in waiting! Last year Beveridge and Simpson got snapped up.
Dew,Bolton or others will have jobs at the end of this year. and after them there will be more. It all depends on who is available at the time.
Everyone is replaceable even Captains as we found out with Griffen at the Dogs..
Brad isn't the first and wont be the last person to coach our great club.
Whoever the club choose when the time comes i will back but if there isn't a big improvement in six years u have to ask the tough questions of will this Coach get this group the Premiership or Not...

 

[Mr_Nyah]

The reality is I just watched 3 of our competitors for the top 8 do what we've been trying and failing to do for the better part of a month and a half: absolutely crush a rubbish team. We are a mile off the pace, and barring something spectacular over the next month, we're just making up the numbers in September. That is nowhere near good enough 6 years in and with the age and experience of our team. We've got one more year to make something of this list, or else we've wasted nigh on a decade, and that's just not good enough.

 

[Woodson]

The tigers had no issues burying the gold coast today and bulldogs are currently obliterating a happless melbourne. This team has no killer instinct and it all starts with the coach who settles for 'just good/average' not great.

I'm confident to pitch you that North's opponents this weekend, StK, really play a high calibre 'quality game' that deserved better on the scoreboard but hey.. that's no blight on North who dug deep and turned around a 21pt deficit to a 42 point lead at one stage inside 30 minutes of footy.. the last Q was hotly contested also. Of course not every week the lesser team brings their near best.. but giving North credit of how they fought out yesterday's fierce battle is better for the team than running around witches hats. Look at what Hawthorn encountered / result after their witches hats game vs Carlton?? A LOSS based on physical pressure. The Hawks can be outplayed I believe. They've been lucky in prelims. That's their achilles heel.

 

[Woodson]

Well when will we play our best footy??????? Time is running out

Did you watch the game vs StK? 17 disposals = 5 goals within 7 minutes!! Broke the game open in a game that was hotly contested from the get-go. StK play like that and they beat most teams.

 

[Bigming]

i'm forever a sit-on-the-fence with Braddo. But he still has to go after the end of his current contract. There have been far too many coaching lapses and inactivity; too much 'woe-is-me'; 'why is this happening'; and too little reaction. As many have pointed out, the team does arc-up against some of the bigger guns, but surely that's not from the coach -that's gotta be from the boys on the field. I also have a theory that they still run games out better than most teams - and if I could muster up the energy I would see if the stats back me up. Again, that's the team, not the coach.
The fact that i'm 50/50 is amazing considering how cut I was at his first bold move was to dismiss the Shinboner spirit. That was as broad a stroke as he seems to have managed in his time, sadly. The St. K game showed him up - what was the message he sent out during the handball to a stationary player phase that managed to last for an entire half of the game?

 

[hilly]

Interesting three weeks ahead. Even if we drop them, Collingwood's invincibles of 1928 dropped a few games as well so all good.

 

[Kanga1996]

Every week?

Starting to think so Tas,These guys are grown men & need to be responsible for their own actions.
If they don't care enough now they never will IMO.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Starting to think so Tas,These guys are grown men & need to be responsible for their own actions.
If they don't care enough now they never will IMO.

I agree that the players need to take responsibility for their own performances and seem to have developed a propensity towards inconsistency of effort and execution. That said these players have for the most part developed under the leadership of Brad Scott as head coach so he too must bear responsibility for either allowing this to happen or not doing enough (be that via inefficient practice or ineptitude) to extract the required level of performance from his players.

Hand in glove stuff for mine.

 

[Kanga1996]

I agree that the players need to take responsibility for their own performances and seem to have developed a propensity towards inconsistency of effort and execution. That said these players have for the most part developed under the leadership of Brad Scott as head coach so he too must bear responsibility for either allowing this to happen or not doing enough (be that via inefficient practice or ineptitude) to extract the required level of performance from his players.

Hand in glove stuff for mine.

I’m not convinced we have the cattle to play the type of football we all desire.

We lack leadership, skill & structure at some point during every game.

I blame the players for our 2nd quarter against St Kilda & give credit for our 3rd quarter to Scott. Maybe there is no workable plan B & that’s our problem, we can’t adjust to a situation during a quarter & have to wait to be told what to do all the time at the breaks.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I’m not convinced we have the cattle to play the type of football we all desire.

We lack leadership, skill & structure at some point during every game.

I blame the players for our 2nd quarter against St Kilda & give credit for our 3rd quarter to Scott. Maybe there is no workable plan B & that’s our problem, we can’t adjust to a situation during a quarter & have to wait to be told what to do all the time at the breaks.

That may be the case, but if so why has this not been addressed in the 6 years Scott has been in charge?

Again, that falls on the coach and his team.

There is short term implementation and long term planning. Building a team that is capable of being flexible in game is something that should have been a priority. If after all this time this is not the case then it is as much the coaches issue as it is the players. After all, they are a result of the club building a team over the course of Scott's tenure.

There was a survey mentioned on the pregame AFL show yesterday where the coaches were asked who the most important people in the club were. The options were head coach, head recruiter, fitness dude (not official title), captain, star player and CEO. 50% said the head coach. If that is indeed the case then the buck on this team development stops with the coach. What we have is a result of his leadership. If that becomes good enough to challenge for a flag after 6-7 years, then great. If not then that is not good enough.

 

[Kanga1996]

That may be the case, but if so why has this not been addressed in the 6 years Scott has been in charge?

Again, that falls on the coach and his team.

There is short term implementation and long term planning. Building a team that is capable of being flexible in game is something that should have been a priority. If after all this time this is not the case then it is as much the coaches issue as it is the players. After all, they are a result of the club building a team over the course of Scott's tenure.

There was a survey mentioned on the pregame AFL show yesterday where the coaches were asked who the most important people in the club were. The options were head coach, head recruiter, fitness dude (not official title), captain, star player and CEO. 50% said the head coach. If that is indeed the case then the buck on this team development stops with the coach. What we have is a result of his leadership. If that becomes good enough to challenge for a flag after 6-7 years, then great. If not then that is not good enough.

Hard to disagree with any of that but I am prepared to give BS until the end of the year before calling for him to go.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Hard to disagree with any of that but I am prepared to give BS until the end of the year before calling for him to go.

Likewise, and I think the vast majority who are being critical are of the same viewpoint. Only a handful want to see the back of him now however there are a few who cannot seem to accept any criticism that comes his way despite it being warranted and significantly more complex than the 'hey look, six in a row so what's the problem, morons?' stance that some are taking.

 

[Only Forwards]

Hard to disagree with any of that but I am prepared to give BS until the end of the year before calling for him to go.

The most likely outcome is that he starts the 2016 season, but it should be make or break for him.

I think the the following would be acceptable outcomes

Flag = Re-sign him
Finals(including any wins) = Commitment to negotiating his contract next year.
Miss Finals = full month of September coaching review as done by Geoff Walsh.

We are in this thing to win flags. This cattle debate is a whole lotta shite. We won 2 cuthroat finals last year and stuck int up the premiers when we played them.

The cattle we have can beat the 18th placed side. The idea we don't have the cattle says that the players we have don't have the capacity for 3 additional victories against lesser sides this year. Its fallacy, we have the ability to win, but we seem to need a catastrophic loss to spur us into action.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Do people think if we played the way we played in the 3rd quarter for 4 quarters that we'd win the premiership?

 

[Pykie]

Our pressure and defensive acts around the ball isn't good enough to go all the way IMO, that's a game style issue rather than a talent issue.

We are also below the top 3-4 teams in basic skill level. It rears its head against the top sides because we can't execute under pressure and invariably turn the ball over constantly, this is a deeper issue and probably resides on list management but also selection and development, after 6 years all this falls on Brad to some respect.

I appreciate what he has done for the club, much in the same way I feel about Laids, he will forever be a North man having put in the stint he has and I sincerely hope (and think) he will go onto be a senior coach somewhere else.

But it's time for a change IMO, for no other reason than this group has really stagnated in the last 12 months, I really think a change must not only encompass Brad, but also the likes of Croc, Cam Joyce possibly even the chief.

A new regime across the bord with a clear run at their own systems.

 

[Only Forwards]

Do people think if we played the way we played in the 3rd quarter for 4 quarters that we'd win the premiership?

I don't think that we have the mental capacity to play our best consistently over a game let alone over the 6/7 weeks that would be required to win the flag.

The only game where we won all the quarters this year was the first Brisbane game. This is a clear indication that our style lends itself to weathering a storm and then relying on our counter punch to win games.

I do not believe that is sustainable against sides that are high quality and will put games out of reach in minutes.

 

[Flawed Genius]

and will put games out of reach in minutes.

Counterpoint is that *we* put the game out of reach within minutes against the Saints. We are capable of doing it.

I agree with you that we're incapable mentally of producing the effort for 4 quarters but if so, then what is our ceiling?

 

[Pykie]

Counterpoint is that *we* put the game out of reach within minutes against the Saints. We are capable of doing it.

I agree with you that we're incapable mentally of producing the effort for 4 quarters but if so, then what is our ceiling?

IMHO probably a prelim.

We certainly have some players that would be stars in any of our past flag sides.

We lack that group of 12-15 guys that are brutally consistent, week in week out, quarter to quarter.

We probably only have 6 or so guys that I could describe as that, which is frustrating, as it's an intangible that can't really be tested for, it develops with age and experience, you learn it from players you've played with and those you've played on and got touched up by.

Mental attributes are the single most important thing a footballer can possess, forget his speed, leap and kicking skills.

They are also the hardest thing to pinpoint in a player and their development really falls solely on the players themselves, no matter how many game reviews, development coaches etc you put into them.

Some players just lack the hunger to be that good, some lack the nouse, some just don't have a combination of all of it so aren't good enough to be that good that often, unfortunately in talented players in all the quantifiable qualities, you probably don't find out they cant reach those intangible levels after 6-7 years of experience...,

 

[blackshadow]

IMHO probably a prelim.

We certainly have some players that would be stars in any of our past flag sides.

We lack that group of 12-15 guys that are brutally consistent, week in week out, quarter to quarter.

We probably only have 6 or so guys that I could describe as that, which is frustrating, as it's an intangible that can't really be tested for, it develops with age and experience, you learn it from players you've played with and those you've played on and got touched up by.

Mental attributes are the single most important thing a footballer can possess, forget his speed, leap and kicking skills.

They are also the hardest thing to pinpoint in a player and their development really falls solely on the players themselves, no matter how many game reviews, development coaches etc you put into them.

Some players just lack the hunger to be that good, some lack the nouse, some just don't have a combination of all of it so aren't good enough to be that good that often, unfortunately in talented players in all the quantifiable qualities, you probably don't find out they cant reach those intangible levels after 6-7 years of experience...,

Basically true but successful coaches develop that hunger and attitude from players and foster that within the team environment they set. This is Brad's biggest failing in my opinion - everything else he's done a decent job at but this one failing that is stopping us from developing from a decent side to a side in premiership contention.

 

[Kanga1996]

We are in this thing to win flags. This cattle debate is a whole lotta shite. We won 2 cuthroat finals last year and stuck int up the premiers when we played them.

The cattle we have can beat the 18th placed side. The idea we don't have the cattle says that the players we have don't have the capacity for 3 additional victories against lesser sides this year. Its fallacy, we have the ability to win, but we seem to need a catastrophic loss to spur us into action.

We have the capacity to win but its generally based on effort which gets us over the line, not sure I can remember too many 4 quarter effort over the last 3 years so I put that down to the cattle..

 

[Only Forwards]

We have the capacity to win but its generally based on effort which gets us over the line, not sure I can remember too many 4 quarter effort over the last 3 years so I put that down to the cattle..

is it though?

I would suggest that it is intrinsically linked to the managment of underperformance through the duration of Brads tenure.

 

[Kanga1996]

is it though?

I would suggest that it is intrinsically linked to the managment of underperformance through the duration of Brads tenure.

I am not completely sold either way, my opinions fluctuate like our form.
I guess I just choose to believe that poor periods of play should be on the players as much as the coach.