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We have no end ….elite might be a problem ….still chatting with the head honchos…
Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2
- Thread starter Bunk Moreland
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- Sep 26, 2012
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Levelling your self….can’t go all in…nice words
- May 5, 2006
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Wingard's not a big guy and doesn't play a physical role so playing until 33/34 isn't out of the question. The issue is more what level he plays to. He should be in his prime now but hasn't played at 2014-16 levels since 2014-16.
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Brown
Dewyyyyy
Norm Smith Medallist
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Idk about that, he was pretty *ing good at stages last year. Averaged 30 and almost 2 goals a game at one stage i'd put money on it (late in the year) his first game back against Geelong he was very good and his game against North he was everywhere. He averaged a little over 20 touches while kicking more than a goal a game and his score involvements, goal assists were through the roof. His tackling is a very underrated piece of his game too. Only thing that is missing is the MOTY.
boncer34
Formerly "Dos23"
Come again?
Dewyyyyy
Norm Smith Medallist
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Maybe a little ambitious but he's still elite (atleast when he's not dead.)
I don't think it was realistic for him to ever get back to what he was, even with no injuries. He was freakish, he's taking Flyin Ryan marks (even tho his MOTY is better than any Ryan mark) and his goals were at a sickly level.
Again ambitious and biased for sure but he's still elite.
boncer34
Formerly "Dos23"
Ambitious?
Weren't you claiming he did that last season? That's not ambitious, it's just wrong.
Dewyyyyy
Norm Smith Medallist
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No no i wasn't claiming he was that good last year, more that i wasn't sure about him not reaching those levels again, even if it was for a game or two.
The reason he was so good for Port was because he was consistently doing the amazing, he only really shows glimpses, mainly due to injury but has shown some good patches.
- Aug 31, 2008
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Not entirely true. Though I imagine you haven't delved into the details, which is fair enough.
The main issue, IMO, has been our game plan and our use of him within it.
He is nowhere near as effective when he's isolated up forward in a team that moves the ball painfully slow. Unfortunately this has been us over the last few seasons. As a forward he clearly thrived on quick ball movement.
But these days he ideally plays in the midfield. He's been quality when he's been moved in there over the last few seasons.
This season he returned to the side in round 19, after being injured in round 15. He was moved to the middle and played there predominantly over those last five games. He was our best player and offers some class, skill and pressure that compliments the grunt work of others.
Hopefully this was some more of Sam Mitchell's influence on the side, and is hopefully a sign of things to come next season.
During that period he averaged - 28.4 touches | 1 goal (kicked 5.3) | 4.8 tackles | 5 clearances | 6 I50's | 2 GA's | 418m gained. He polled 8 votes in the last four games.
His last six games in 2019 were similar. He returned to the side after missing several weeks through injury, and after one game back he was moved into the middle, where he showed his best form.
During that period he averaged - 24.67 touches | 0.5 goals (kicked 3.3) | 5 tackles | 5 clearances | 6.67 I50's | 454.67m gained. All of this whilst playing only 70.5% game time.
During the last 12 games at Port in 2018 he saw more midfield time.
During this period he averaged - 24.25 touches | 0.92 goals (kicked 11.6) | 5.08 tackles | 4.92 clearances | 5.17 I50's | 407.66m gained.
Those stats are all very good, but really it's the classy impact he has on the game that's the biggest positive. This also could be because his style of play and his level of class really stands out in our midfield, which is full of strong contested types, but sorely lacks class and skill.
There's been a pattern of Wingard having to work back into the season following an injury, and then showing some great form when he was moved into the middle - the questions are - will he finally manage to stay fit? Will Mitchell use him in the middle, where he's shown to be most effective? And if not, then will we be able to move the ball quickly to get the most out of our forwards?
No you wouldn’t have. You would have picked Callaghan without blinking. Your list needs more than one type of player.
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Agree with your comment but I can tell you though that now that we have seen Ward in action there wouldn't be many hawk supporters who would swap ward for callaghan right now if they had a chance. Kid is jet and ready to go round 1
boncer34
Formerly "Dos23"
When did the season start?
BIGHAWK23
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- Nov 7, 2019
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I think a better way to frame the statement was
Hawthorn would have loved to have got Callaghan
But from what track watchers have seen of Ward so far has given them hope that Ward will be equally as valuable to the club in time potentially
Both are currently unknown commodities
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Callaghan
Then Ward for us IMO
Keep in mind that Daicos and Darcy were both aligned to other clubs, and we don't need a player like Darcy (or should I say a class midfielder is more of a pressing need).
We don't really need a ruckman either, as exciting as Mac Daddy is.
Rachele is an interesting one. I think we could use a classy forward like him, and certainly wouldn't have been upset if we had taken him. But we really need a certified midfielder and Ward offers us everything we desperately need.
IMO the only player I was also really keen on was Erasmus.
Callaghan
Then Ward for us IMO
Keep in mind that Daicos and Darcy were both aligned to other clubs, and we don't need a player like Darcy (or should I say a class midfielder is more of a pressing need).
We don't really need a ruckman either, as exciting as Mac Daddy is.
Rachele is an interesting one. I think we could use a classy forward like him, and certainly wouldn't have been upset if we had taken him. But we really need a certified midfielder and Ward offers us everything we desperately need.
IMO the only player I was also really keen on was Erasmus.
- May 5, 2006
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Why are people so keen to pump up Wingard?
You don't give up draft assets and a good young player for a prime 'match winner' like Wingard to play a few good games a year in a middling side.
He's a good player, not some potato that has forgotten how to football. But he had great games and patches of great form in his last few years for Port too... and they told him to explore his options under contract.
He has gone from AA in 2013 and 2015 to not being in contention for 6 years. At his peak he was a 15-20 disposal, 2+ goal a game player over a 3 season period. That's a fair sample size. Sure he came home with a wet sail and polled 8 Brownlow votes in 4 games, but all that did was help his team climb from 17th to 14th, so there's a degree of 'who cares?' to that.
It's not like he doesn't have time to turn it around, but the moment he's fighting history to do that. He's still had a fine career if he retired tomorrow, just not the sort of guy you'd expect to feature on some top 50 list.
You don't give up draft assets and a good young player for a prime 'match winner' like Wingard to play a few good games a year in a middling side.
He's a good player, not some potato that has forgotten how to football. But he had great games and patches of great form in his last few years for Port too... and they told him to explore his options under contract.
He has gone from AA in 2013 and 2015 to not being in contention for 6 years. At his peak he was a 15-20 disposal, 2+ goal a game player over a 3 season period. That's a fair sample size. Sure he came home with a wet sail and polled 8 Brownlow votes in 4 games, but all that did was help his team climb from 17th to 14th, so there's a degree of 'who cares?' to that.
It's not like he doesn't have time to turn it around, but the moment he's fighting history to do that. He's still had a fine career if he retired tomorrow, just not the sort of guy you'd expect to feature on some top 50 list.
Dewyyyyy
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He's still got it, it's about keeping him on the park. That's the difficult part and is the big, what will happen.
He was averaging mid 20s disposals or higher late in the year, was kicking a goal or two a game while his score involvements and goal assists also through the roof. It's all about showing that for longer and keeping him on the park will help with that.
- Feb 5, 2018
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Multiple Hawks players this pre-season have mentioned during interviews that the major difference between Clarko and Mitchell is that Sam is prioritising giving players the freedom to perform to their strengths and limit the strict 'system based' style of previous years.
Wingard is probably the player who can benefit most from that. Time will tell of course.
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