Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[LordLucifer]

Carlton will offer a mill and a bit again a year
AFL will do the same and more to get him to one of their franchises

Interesting you say that, I can't see the Blues dumping Teague so quickly unless there is a major trainwreck between now and the end of the season.

And you are right about the AFL, I wouldn't be surprised if they tipped in an ambassadorial fee for Clarkson to ensure he joins the Giants.

The thing is, if Clarkson did join the Giants, it would be massive PR boost for the code in NSW.

 

[LordLucifer]

GWS receive: Clarkson
Hawthorn receive: Giants 2020 + 2021 first round picks.

Clarkson is contracted. If any team wants him they are going to pay a hefty price.

I know you may be keen to get further into the upcoming drafts but trading draft picks for a coach ??

 

[Hawk Dork]

Interesting you say that, I can't see the Blues dumping Teague so quickly unless there is a major trainwreck between now and the end of the season.

And you are right about the AFL, I wouldn't be surprised if they tipped in an ambassadorial fee for Clarkson to ensure he joins the Giants.

The thing is, if Clarkson did join the Giants, it would be massive PR boost for the code in NSW.

There would be nothing to gain from coaching a franchise with no salary cap to an inevitable cup

 

[TylerDurden]

Mate, I could dine out on four flags in the last 13 years for at least the next decade.

You Hawk fans have nothing to feel insulted about, the AFL equalization system is set to bring down all the great/premiership teams (Richmond will feel the pinch within a year or two)

Any club that can threepeat during this stripped down era of salary cap and player retention (and lost this best player to a Flag rival) deserves nothing but the up most respect (Even if I hate ya mob lol)

Cheers mate.

 

[matey]

Teague must be getting edgy and wants the Hawks to finish the season strongly ...... will probably coach to lose against the Hawks! Goodwin probably made a huge mistake last week aswell!

 

[master bate]

NBA is very different because one or two stars make the difference. Hawthorn added Tom Mitchell who won a Brownlow in his second year and here we are writing them off for years to come. You wouldn't expect an NBA team to add an all NBA calibre player and go backwards soon after.

Spurs have bucked the trend by being competitive for 25 years, but their poor 96/97 season was an aberration with David Robinson being out for a year. That got them Tim Duncan who played for 20 years. Pop had Robinson (MVP), Duncan (MVP), Kawhi (MVP candidate, finals MVP), Parker (all star), Ginobili (all star), Aldridge (all star) etc. throughout his time as head coach. He's always made it work with what he has, but he hasn't had to coach a dud roster. Post-Kawhi they haven't been much of a threat.

Pop had elite talent for 20+ years, Clarko had elite talent (most of which he developed) for the best part of 15 years.

Now they both don't and now they are seemingly deferring or refusing the rebuild.

I see similarities between Tom Mitchell and Aldridge. Both are in the good but not great category. Mitchell won a Brownlow but surely the opinion always was that he's a step below the best midfielders and he's not a good kick just as Aldridge isn't a 3 point shooter.

That's really my biggest criticism of Clarko. He seems to be getting away from the list decisions and game style that his club invented!

 

[dlb99]

Destination club

 

[WWSD]

Destination club

Yes... but NOT free agents though.

 

[dlb99]

Be interesting if Chad Wingard came over just for Clarko....AND he ends up coaching GWS next year.

Brings back memories of Daisy coming to my Blues for Mick, only for Mick to get the flick after things went pear-shaped.

 

[matey]

Be interesting if Chad Wingard came over just for Clarko....AND he ends up coaching GWS next year.

Brings back memories of Daisy coming to my Blues for Mick, only for Mick to get the flick after things went pear-shaped.

Big difference Mick always wanted to continue coaching after Collingwood.

Clarko has clearly said a number of times that once he finishes coaching Hawthorn that’s it and he will do something else. Nice storey though, like many on here keep trying with all the envy riddled BF buffoon pot shots!

 

[Sonny Hayes]

Be interesting if Chad Wingard came over just for Clarko....AND he ends up coaching GWS next year.

Brings back memories of Daisy coming to my Blues for Mick, only for Mick to get the flick after things went pear-shaped.

Very unlikely thogugh

 

[Proper Gander]

Be interesting if Chad Wingard came over just for Clarko....AND he ends up coaching GWS next year.

Brings back memories of Daisy coming to my Blues for Mick, only for Mick to get the flick after things went pear-shaped.

I honestly think Chad moved for the best offer. His club weren’t happy with him and may have even shopped him around. Hawks had money in the Kitty to spend after they tried to lure Shiel but he preferred Essendon. Chad doesn’t strike me as the deepest of thinkers. Clarko stays or goes, it’s sweet because he still has a great contract

 

[HTPunter]

Big difference Mick always wanted to continue coaching after Collingwood.

Clarko has clearly said a number of times that once he finishes coaching Hawthorn that’s it and he will do something else. Nice storey though, like many on here keep trying with all the envy riddled BF buffoon pot shots!

Lots of AFL people have said lots of things that haven't been true. Really who knows - I don't think Clarkson would consider it going back on his word if he's not renewed at the end of 2022 and still feels like he can coach an AFL side.

 

[Milanista28]

They'll probably get Brad Crouch as a FA, offer enough so Crows get pick 2 as compo. Trade 2020 or 2021 1st for another established player perhaps it could be Ben Brown

 

[matey]

Lots of AFL people have said lots of things that haven't been true. Really who knows - I don't think Clarkson would consider it going back on his word if he's not renewed at the end of 2022 and still feels like he can coach an AFL side.

Fair enough but as a paid up member I am supportive of honouring Clarko’s contract. He deserves it! Until the end he will do only what’s best for all. That’s in his DNA since day 1 walking into the club. Never forget when he asked the club to reduce his salary and to use that money to get some other support staff in.

 

[Pessimistic]

Interesting you say that, I can't see the Blues dumping Teague so quickly unless there is a major trainwreck between now and the end of the season.

And you are right about the AFL, I wouldn't be surprised if they tipped in an ambassadorial fee for Clarkson to ensure he joins the Giants.

The thing is, if Clarkson did join the Giants, it would be massive PR boost for the code in NSW.

‘why hasn’t this happened already, with all the $$$ been buried in western Sydney?

 

[Pessimistic]

Fair enough but as a paid up member I am supportive of honouring Clarko’s contract. He deserves it! Until the end he will do only what’s best for all. That’s in his DNA since day 1 walking into the club. Never forget when he asked the club to reduce his salary and to use that money to get some other support staff in.

‘never mentioned by all the people carrying on today in media.they have so many inaccuracies about whats gone in at the club it’s better to turn off

 

[TylerDurden]

They'll probably get Brad Crouch as a FA, offer enough so Crows get pick 2 as compo. Trade 2020 or 2021 1st for another established player perhaps it could be Ben Brown

We dont want Brown mate. Rubbish rumour started here. I daresay we'll keep the pick.
Crouch is another vanilla mid. The last thing we need.

 

[Pessimistic]

I know you may be keen to get further into the upcoming drafts but trading draft picks for a coach ??

‘when ken judge deserted To eagles, Ian Dicker seriously suggested players or draft picks in return

 

[LordLucifer]

‘when ken judge deserted To eagles, Ian Dicker seriously suggested players or draft picks in return

Do you really think the AFL would ever let that sort of deal go through though ??

Geez, it would really open a can of worms if they did.

 

[Pessimistic]

Do you really think the AFL would ever let that sort of deal go through though ??

Geez, it would really open a can of worms if they did.

of course, but I admired the audacity

 

[Scotland]

Pop had elite talent for 20+ years, Clarko had elite talent (most of which he developed) for the best part of 15 years.

Now they both don't and now they are seemingly deferring or refusing the rebuild.

I see similarities between Tom Mitchell and Aldridge. Both are in the good but not great category. Mitchell won a Brownlow but surely the opinion always was that he's a step below the best midfielders and he's not a good kick just as Aldridge isn't a 3 point shooter.

That's really my biggest criticism of Clarko. He seems to be getting away from the list decisions and game style that his club invented!

Yep there are some similarities but as the Lakers showed you can go from nowhere to championship favourite with one or two moves. People say 'Crazy Clarko' because the Hawks gave up first round picks (15, 7, 12 - give or take) + other bits and pieces to get Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard. The Lakers gave up Ball (pick 2), Ingram (pick 2), Hart and 3 first round picks (pick 4 + two future) for Anthony Davis. They also gave away D'Angelo Russell (pick 2) after two years for one season of Brook Lopez and pick 27. These sort of moves are completely insane from an AFL perspective. Could you imagine Hawthorn giving up a top 5 pick from the 2017 draft in order to get Jon Patton for just this year before he becomes a free agent? Or Gold Coast trading 2 or 3 of Rankine/Rowell/Anderson/King and future picks to get a Fyfe or Martin? Just wouldn't happen.

Footy is also less star dependent. We won in 2018 and arguably had 0 top 10 players that year. You aren't winning an NBA ring without at least one superstar. Fyfe, Cripps, Gawn all didn't even play finals last year. Rare to see All NBA calibre players playing on teams that aren't at least contending for playoffs.

I find the cult of Clarko a bit weird. He's a great coach but he's not a one man band. Geelong fans go on about Stephen Wells when it comes to their list management then want Chris Scott fired each September. I don't think of Adam Simpson as our list manager, he's the coach. Clarko, Ross Lyon, and a few others seem to get all the credit and all the blame when the shit hits the fan.

 

[almuz]

This thread could alternatively be titled: Jealous opposition team supports figure out equalisation

 

[RUNVS]

Yep there are some similarities but as the Lakers showed you can go from nowhere to championship favourite with one or two moves. People say 'Crazy Clarko' because the Hawks gave up first round picks (15, 7, 12 - give or take) + other bits and pieces to get Mitchell, O'Meara and Wingard. The Lakers gave up Ball (pick 2), Ingram (pick 2), Hart and 3 first round picks (pick 4 + two future) for Anthony Davis. They also gave away D'Angelo Russell (pick 2) after two years for one season of Brook Lopez and pick 27. These sort of moves are completely insane from an AFL perspective. Could you imagine Hawthorn giving up a top 5 pick from the 2017 draft in order to get Jon Patton for just this year before he becomes a free agent? Or Gold Coast trading 2 or 3 of Rankine/Rowell/Anderson/King and future picks to get a Fyfe or Martin? Just wouldn't happen.

Footy is also less star dependent. We won in 2018 and arguably had 0 top 10 players that year. You aren't winning an NBA ring without at least one superstar. Fyfe, Cripps, Gawn all didn't even play finals last year. Rare to see All NBA calibre players playing on teams that aren't at least contending for playoffs.

I find the cult of Clarko a bit weird. He's a great coach but he's not a one man band. Geelong fans go on about Stephen Wells when it comes to their list management then want Chris Scott fired each September. I don't think of Adam Simpson as our list manager, he's the coach. Clarko, Ross Lyon, and a few others seem to get all the credit and all the blame when the sh*t hits the fan.

Also it is far faster to turn over your team in basketball. There are only 5 players on the court at any one time, so if you get a super good player suddenly 20% of your team is better. To do the same with AFL you would need closer to 4 super good players to get the same effect.

 

[Draft Pick]

I maintain what I said a couple of years ago.
The recruiting of several older players wasn't to win a flag, but to put some sort of leadership in place to develop the next round of young players.

Everyone likes to point out Hawthorns success in the draft early in Clarkson tenure, but ignore that we had the likes of Smith, Dixon, Vandenberg, barker, even Crawford there who transitioned as the club climbed up.
This team is currently at the 2003/2004 structure, and in the next couple of years will hit the draft heavily

So Chad Wingard, Tom Scully and Patton have come to Hawthorn to help out elite kids that Hawthorn are yet to recruit ?