List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)
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Zac fisher is worth a top 5 pick by himself. He's not disposable.
Spoke to an opponent who had to play on Walsh and a coach that had to coach against Walsh. Basically said that because of TAC cup rules they weren't allowed to tag him which meant that he was played off a wing with the intention of sitting him behind the contest allowing him a run at it. Almost impossible to stop, incredible ability to keep his feet and remain in the contest despite his smaller frame. Even if he were to be tagged no one could run with him due to pure gut running ability, work rate was off the charts.
He's a no brainer for mine, would compliment our mids perfectly.
He's a no brainer for mine, would compliment our mids perfectly.
Makes the most sense to me TW. This will almost immediately be moved for McGovern in a straight swap.
Not sure how I'd feel if that's what eventuates but it is what it is.
I'd actually like to see us get another couple of true balanced midfielders a bit more like Dow that can find it on the inside, transition to the outside and then spread from the contest with good acceleration. We already have Fisher, SPS, O'Brien, Cuningham, Williamson, Lang, Simpson, Garlett, Pickett, etc as outside types. I get it that in a couple of years Walsh will be better than most of them, but do we really need another outside type???......and an outside type is what he is at AFL level.
I got to watch Smith & Walsh twice live during the Carnival I struggled to say I preferred one over the other. Both have an enormous work rate, cover an enormous amount of ground and your point about keeping their feet is important and true of both kids. So why would I prefer SOS draft Smith???
I think Smith addresses an area in our midfield in which we are severely lacking. Inside mids that possess genuine speed that can spread from the contest are really rare, especially ones that can read the ball off the ruckman's hands as well as Smith does. He's also got the body-type suited to the current prototype finals-style player and I like how he tackles with intent and they stick. The other thing I like is that you probably only need Pick 3 or 4 to get him which provides SOS with more options. For example, SOS could trade Pick 1 for the Suns Pick 3 & the WC 1st Rounder they hold. That WC pick is the one I'd use for McGovern, he's not worth anymore than that.
With Dylan Shiel and Mitch Wallis now off the trade table, I'd prefer to see SOS address the contested side of our midfield through the draft rather than adding depth to an area I think we've already got reasonably well covered (outside types) as some of our existing kids mature. When do we start finding some cover for Cripps or do we just keep ignoring the issue and pretending it doesn't exist??? The simple reality is the jury is still out on Kennedy and Setterfield's played bugger all footy for 3 years and coming off an ACL, so I'm not sure why people here are wanting to give up an early 2nd Round Pick in a strong draft for him.
Maybe if we get a start of 1st Round PP we have both.
As long as my arse points to the ground and my farts continue to be mistaken as acts of terrorism, Pick 11/12 is way too much for McGovern, especially in this Draft. * that.....he can stay at the Crows.
BrisbaneCFC
Norm Smith Medallist
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Who said Dylan Shiel was off the trade table?
TSG, i can't understand how people can't get their heads around the idea that the ONLY reason we are getting the Pick 12 freebie is to use it on McGovern.
It doesn't matter that he is only worth 19. The AFL are giving us 12 to MAKE SURE Adelaide do the deal.
It is a freebie to us if it comes off. They will give us nothing unless we can demonstrate that it will 100% used on an established 22-26yo.
*this is still theory at this stage but i still think it will happen.
Freebie or not, we shouldn't be forced to overpay
It would be like saying here is PP 19 for you to use on Daniel Menzel
It is absolutely nothing like that at all.
We WANT McGovern.
The AFL look as though they are going to give us a freebie to ensure we get him.....
....and intelligent people are complaining. Sorta doing my head in lol.
Terry, MM has had ONE decent season as a 24 year old. IMHO, he is not worth a mid 1st pick
Irrelevant whether he is worth 12, 19 or 25.
We are potentially being given a player we really want for NOTHING.
The AFL are not obliged to give us anything, as you know and have articulated here before. But they are giving us a pick to ensure we can get a contracted player out of another club that we have identified.
That is what our brief from the AFL would have been." Explain to us what you can get done to get better next year and get back to us".
It is not irrelevant, why would we overpay for an inconsistent player. Tell me which side has been handed a PP, with the proviso of you must use it on player X.
IF we must use it in a trade, surely we should be able to target any other player we want.
As for intelligent people complaining, many intelligent people seem to be getting desperate
We ARE targeting the player WE want. It's obviously not the player you want.
* We being the CFC.
ferrisb
Brownlow Medallist
That's Terry's point, A-man....
He's not worth a mid first rounder. But that's what the AFL are giving us to make it happen.
It's like if my boss wants to give me a $5000 watch as end of year bonus. I would never spend that much on a watch. I'd rather get $5k cash, spend $500 on a watch and pocket the $4500. But my boss just says 'watch or no watch?'.
Doesn't matter what the watch is worth IF it's free and I never had the opportunity to spend that value on something else.
*this is all based on the theory that the AFL will bump up our PP to mid first round specifically to make McGovern deal happen.
TLDR: Think of it not as pick 12 but as a free McGovern token...
Johnny James
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Red Card, Plow should get every *en colour for that statement.
I question this as well, I don't understand how the afl can issue a PP and make it conditional that it be traded.
As far as I'm concerned we only deserve a end of first round pick. I don't want the club to be seen taking advantage of the system by getting pick directly after our first, it's just too much especially looking at the quality of the top 7.
Then it's simple just trade 19 for McGovern, which to me is about right maybe a little the crows way some might disagree but close enough to live with.
Johnny James
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Sorry Plow, I fell that statement you made.
I take back all those coloured cards I wanted you to get.
Love your work and I have similar opinions on both Walsh and Smith, having watched them both live.
The reason Walsh edges out Smith for me is needs based. Walsh is a faster player than Smith and we need speed/outside run.
Also Walsh has leadership qualities beyond his years and is a slightly better kick than Smith imo.
If we could nab another top 5 pick though I would select Smith in a heartbeat (instead of trading it for a player e.g. Shiel).
Terry, I have never said I don't want MM. As for WE, I would suggest most would say a mid 1st is overs for an inconsistent, injury prone player.
If the AFL is putting a proviso, on trading a PP, surely, we are entitled to use it on any player we want.
I really wouldn't use that analogy. It's like saying you are entitled to a $5000 watch, then handing over a secondhand item with a history of breaking down, with no warranty
I agree, I think he is worth a pick between 17-23. If we do have to use a mid 1st PP on MM, I would suggest other picks should exchange hands
Jimmae
Brownlow Medallist
Can we please move past this pick 12 nonsense? It's unprecedented, and flies in the face of current AFL policy.
If they want to fix free agency, it's as simple as significantly watering down compensation and giving a mechanism through which clubs can hold one or two uncontracted players in order to force adequate compensation from the interested club for key players.
I mean it's ridiculous to me that Hawthorn could theoretically sign Gaff and Lynch while still retaining a first round pick.
Throwing all these picks into the first round without special circumstances is just dumb, then randomly putting special ordering and conditions on a subset of these picks is even worse.
Then after you've cleaned up the compensation system, create an eligibility criteria for state league players to enter the first period of delisted free agency as well, and abolish the category A rookie list.
But announce the changes a year in advance, for *s sake.
EDIT: fixed context of state league FA additions.
If they want to fix free agency, it's as simple as significantly watering down compensation and giving a mechanism through which clubs can hold one or two uncontracted players in order to force adequate compensation from the interested club for key players.
I mean it's ridiculous to me that Hawthorn could theoretically sign Gaff and Lynch while still retaining a first round pick.
Throwing all these picks into the first round without special circumstances is just dumb, then randomly putting special ordering and conditions on a subset of these picks is even worse.
Then after you've cleaned up the compensation system, create an eligibility criteria for state league players to enter the first period of delisted free agency as well, and abolish the category A rookie list.
But announce the changes a year in advance, for *s sake.
EDIT: fixed context of state league FA additions.
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To make it clear i don't neccesarily agree it is the right thing for the AFL to do. But that is irrelevant. We HAVE applied for help and the AFL WANT to give us help.
Gillon personally sold Murdoch and Stokes the idea that in the next rights deal, the comp will be equalised as much as possible. They coughed up 2.65 Billion on that sell.
This is a totally compromised AFL. From top to bottom.
Gillon personally sold Murdoch and Stokes the idea that in the next rights deal, the comp will be equalised as much as possible. They coughed up 2.65 Billion on that sell.
This is a totally compromised AFL. From top to bottom.
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Just because I win $10K at the casino doens't mean I should blow it all on hookers and bondi marching powder just because it is a free hit.
AFL give us 12, we should go, you know what we have changed our minds think we will take RCD instead
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