List Mgmt. Carlton's 2019 Draft Thread

[gbatman]

Whoever we target in the draft, that's if we are left with picks I think we need to really target pace.

We've got plenty of talls and big bodied types and medium paced midfielders. We need some players who have good closing speed on the man and lose ball, can apply elite pressure and really give some run and carry.

We've got a little pace but I think we can build on that. Hope we land our small forward targets and get a centerman or two with genuine pace in this period or the next. Would definitely be having a good look at Caldwell, he might not be ready to go next year but if we wait we will be waiting until 2021 anyway and by then he should be right.

 

[Mondyboy]

Out of curiosity is there a minimum amount of picks you have to take into the draft?


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[CJMB]

Out of curiosity is there a minimum amount of picks you have to take into the draft?


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You have to add 3 players to the senior list, either through the draft or upgrading rookies.

Normally clubs draft 3+, but if for arguments sake at the end of the trade period we're only left with a 2nd, a 3rd and a 5th we might opt to upgrade Gibbons and only draft 2 players.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Sam Flanders - Big bodied midfielder that also looks fine in the forward line. There are probably questions on his upside with regards to his size at junior level. (Could be Membrey Clone or maybe Wines?)

Kemp - Looks very flexible as also a big bodied midfield that can move forward or back. Knee injury is a concern, so risky. (Cripps light)

Stephens - One of the better outside running midfielders, think Gaff.

Robertson - Contested ball winning beast, that has a few kicking question marks but other than that is very good. (Matt Crouch?)

Ash - A running defender that has line breaking speed and great kicking ability, hopefully can transition into the midfielder, but at worst is a dynamic running defender. (Think Maybe Jetta style?)

Watch a Robertson game during the champs and some of the final. I really like his toughness and match winning ability. I'd be very happy to add him as a young WA mid for Crippa to take under his wing.

 

[Arr0w]

Sam Flanders - Big bodied midfielder that also looks fine in the forward line. There are probably questions on his upside with regards to his size at junior level. (Could be Membrey Clone or maybe Wines?)

Kemp - Looks very flexible as also a big bodied midfield that can move forward or back. Knee injury is a concern, so risky. (Cripps light)

Stephens - One of the better outside running midfielders, think Gaff.

Robertson - Contested ball winning beast, that has a few kicking question marks but other than that is very good. (Matt Crouch?)

Ash - A running defender that has line breaking speed and great kicking ability, hopefully can transition into the midfielder, but at worst is a dynamic running defender. (Think Maybe Jetta style?)

LM, I believe Rivers will end up being a goal kicking, big bodied mid, who can start his career early off HB

Would appreciate your thoughts given my live viewing has been limited

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

Anyone got info on Sam DeK?
Sounds level headed, could he join his big bro at the Blues?

 

[LemmingMaster]

LM, I believe Rivers will end up being a goal kicking, big bodied mid, who can start his career early off HB

Would appreciate your thoughts given my live viewing has been limited

Rivers could be anything in my mind at AFL level, he has shown some ability to move forward of center at WAFL level. I still have a feeling he is more a HBF that will drift into the midfield than a goal kicking midfielder.

Still if he moves into the midfield, he could be a little like Murphy in the early stages of his career and be dangerous forward of center.

 

[Arr0w]

Anyone got info on Sam DeK?
Sounds level headed, could he join his big bro at the Blues?

Depending what we have left over after trading. Think he is worth a late 1st to mid 2nd

 

[Arr0w]

Rivers could be anything in my mind at AFL level, he has shown some ability to move forward of center at WAFL level. I still have a feeling he is more a HBF that will drift into the midfield than a goal kicking midfielder.

Still if he moves into the midfield, he could be a little like Murphy in the early stages of his career and be dangerous forward of center.

He is an interesting prospect

I see a big bodied mid that can take his opponent forward and be damaging, somewhat Fyfe like

Think he will continue to rise in the minds of recruiters

 

[IronMan29]

Anyone got info on Sam DeK?
Sounds level headed, could he join his big bro at the Blues?

We won't have a low enough pick to get him

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[ferrisb]

Should be brother-brother bidding discount....

 

[Arr0w]

We won't have a low enough pick to get him

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Wouldn't be surprised if SOS pulls another Stocker type deal

May not be for SDK though

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Wouldn't be surprised if SOS pulls another Stocker type deal

May not be for SDK though

Hey Arr0w, keen to get your opinion....

Given that this year is likely to be predominantly a 'trade year'...if we spend most of our chips this year on smalls and possibly a big bodied mid, leaving us with potentially only 3rd/4th/5th round picks in the ND, how would you feel about potentially drafting Ben Kelly as a project ruck with one of our lower picks?

Apparently has had a good year as an over-age player in the U18 comp, and was overlooked in the mid season draft. The thinking is that rather than getting a mid 20's back up ruck from the state league, get a kid and develop him while Krooz/Phillips still on the list.

 

[mediumsizered]

Depending what we have left over after trading. Think he is worth a late 1st to mid 2nd

Given the number of KPP we have on our list, most of them at the younger end of the age spectrum, I can't really see us looking at SDK.

 

[Arr0w]

Given the number of KPP we have on our list, most of them at the younger end of the age spectrum, I can't really see us looking at SDK.

I agree it's unlikely, but we know SOS loves a tall (so do I)

Goddard is merely insurance, Levi has limited time left and could still depart, Jones may or may not be around when we are a contender, Macreadie still struggling to get on the park, yet could also be used further up the ground if he does come on

That leaves Ben and Weitering as our only young KPD's

We aren't flushed with options medium to long term

 

[Arr0w]

Hey Arr0w, keen to get your opinion....

Given that this year is likely to be predominantly a 'trade year'...if we spend most of our chips this year on smalls and possibly a big bodied mid, leaving us with potentially only 3rd/4th/5th round picks in the ND, how would you feel about potentially drafting Ben Kelly as a project ruck with one of our lower picks?

Apparently has had a good year as an over-age player in the U18 comp, and was overlooked in the mid season draft. The thinking is that rather than getting a mid 20's back up ruck from the state league, get a kid and develop him while Krooz/Phillips still on the list.

Has been a conundrum/frustration for me for 2 years, so I am not surprised that finally we were targeting a guy like Darcy Cameron, alas, seems to be headed to the Pies. I have little faith in Phillips and Kreuzer staying on the park and would suggest Levi could remain in the game/with us, long after they are gone, as he fills many holes down the spine. TDK is the perfect prototype for the modern day game, but is still 12 -18 months away

Apart for Luke Jackson, who I would take if we ended up having a mid to late 1st, most of the others are late/rookie prospects, but they are extremely athletic, perfect for the modern game if they came on. Courtney, Grundry, Patterson, Brumley, Thilithorpe, Bryan, Kirk, Harris, Gardiner, Kelly all of which I see as project players, but many with huge upside

Then you have some interesting prospects around the state leagues, Ajang, Blair, Eastland, Sibbald, Strnadica

I still believe we need to target a player in the 23-26 age range that is also a capable resting forward

 

[HARKER]

I agree it's unlikely, but we know SOS loves a tall (so do I)

Goddard is merely insurance, Levi has limited time left and could still depart, Jones may or may not be around when we are a contender, Macreadie still struggling to get on the park, yet could also be used further up the ground if he does come on

That leaves Ben and Weitering as our only young KPD's

We aren't flushed with options medium to long term

No. We have 4 young KPD's - Weitering, Macreadie, BSilvagni and Goddard.
What's the point of development if we don't believe we can develop?

As things stand we have 5 genuine KPD's with Jones included. Plenty for now as Jones has three years, Weitering 10, allowing us time to develop and find something should we need, when we need it. No more stacking 'insurance' for the sake of it. It doesn't work as we'll flood ourselves with same types and not enough of others.
Haven't we learned this already?

 

[Arr0w]

No. We have 4 young KPD's - Weitering, Macreadie, BSilvagni and Goddard.
What's the point of development if we don't believe we can develop?

As things stand we have 5 genuine KPD's with Jones included. Plenty for now as Jones has three years, Weitering 10, allowing us time to develop and find something should we need, when we need it. No more stacking 'insurance' for the sake of it. It doesn't work as we'll flood ourselves with same types and not enough of others.
Haven't we learned this already?

Sure I have already mentioned Macreadie, who has been injury prone, also see him playing up the ground, rather than a KPD

Goddard will struggle, has limited speed and the agility, turning circle of a neanderthal, he is our insurance

Despite what you and others would prefer, we have the least amount of quality coverage down the spine, including ruckmen, medium to long term

That is why you consider an SDK now, while we still have Jones and Levi

 

[HARKER]

Sure I have already mentioned Macreadie, who has been injury prone, also see him playing up the ground, rather than a KPD
Goddard will struggle, has limited speed and the agility, turning circle of a neanderthal, he is our insurance
Despite what you and others would prefer, we have the least amount of quality coverage down the spine, including ruckmen, medium to long term
That is why you consider an SDK now, while we still have Jones and Levi

We have 5 KPD's on the books.
We have how many KPF's? Why don't we need more forwards but need more defenders?

Using a little bit of math here -
KPD's make up for 2 posts per main team and 2 for the reserves (development/back-up) therefore 4 KPD's is about right and 5 is starting to look a little heavy.
6 or more is ridiculous. Why would we do that again, as when we had that many previously it simply made for a huge fail?

If we wanted to target a KPD this trade/draft period, we should not have given Goddard an extra year whilst having all the others contracted.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Has been a conundrum/frustration for me for 2 years, so I am not surprised that finally we were targeting a guy like Darcy Cameron, alas, seems to be headed to the Pies. I have little faith in Phillips and Kreuzer staying on the park and would suggest Levi could remain in the game/with us, long after they are gone, as he fills many holes down the spine. TDK is the perfect prototype for the modern day game, but is still 12 -18 months away

Apart for Luke Jackson, who I would take if we ended up having a mid to late 1st, most of the others are late/rookie prospects, but they are extremely athletic, perfect for the modern game if they came on. Courtney, Grundry, Patterson, Brumley, Thilithorpe, Bryan, Kirk, Harris, Gardiner, Kelly all of which I see as project players, but many with huge upside

Then you have some interesting prospects around the state leagues, Ajang, Blair, Eastland, Sibbald, Strnadica

I still believe we need to target a player in the 23-26 age range that is also a capable resting forward

cheers Arr0w...I was a little disappointed as well that Cameron is heading to the Pies, could have been a great pick up for not a lot.

It does sound like there are other options, but would like to see us getting a young ruck to develop....pity we didn't get Bailey Williams last year, we should pry him away from WCE

 

[Arr0w]

We have 5 KPD's on the books.
We have how many KPF's? Why don't we need more forwards but need more defenders?

Using a little bit of math here -
KPD's make up for 2 posts per main team and 2 for the reserves (development/back-up) therefore 4 KPD's is about right and 5 is starting to look a little heavy.
6 or more is ridiculous. Why would we do that again, as when we had that many previously it simply made for a huge fail?

If we wanted to target a KPD this trade/draft period, we should not have given Goddard an extra year whilst having all the others contracted.

Again Harks I covered this in my OP, not focusing on the short term. Taking draftees is with a minimum view of 2-4 years, in 4 years time, Jones, Levi will be gone, Macreadie might remain injury prone and Goddard is not a KPD that can be viewed as a long term backup

 

[PostPaolo]

The last three years we've seen the 'ready made midfielder' slide in the draft, although Ross more pushed his draft stock up after not playing national championships:

2018 Pick 43 Jack Ross
2017 Pick 45 James Worpel
2016 Pick 53 Jack Graham

Would love a hard nosed midfielder with a mid-tier pick this year.

 

[HARKER]

Again Harks I covered this in my OP, not focusing on the short term. Taking draftees is with a minimum view of 2-4 years, in 4 years time, Jones, Levi will be gone, Macreadie might remain injury prone and Goddard is not a KPD that can be viewed as a long term backup

I'd never do that.
We're covered as we stand and given the quality and age-profile of or list, target for needs and develop the whole to premium levels.

If we do though find ourselves a KPD short for one reason or another, we target for needs via trade.
No way should we be looking at 18 y.o. KPD's via the draft and using Macreadie's injuries as an excuse to do so, doesn't make sense to me.
What if the next 18 y.o. KPD also finds himself to have ongoing injuries?

Macreadie is 21. BSilvagni is 19. Goddard is 23.
We have to give some of those guys a go as otherwise - What was the point in getting them in the first place? It makes for a waste.

 

[Arr0w]

I'd never do that.
We're covered as we stand and given the quality and age-profile of or list, target for needs and develop the whole to premium levels.

If we do though find ourselves a KPD short for one reason or another, we target for needs via trade.
No way should we be looking at 18 y.o. KPD's via the draft and using Macreadie's injuries as an excuse to do so, doesn't make sense to me.
What if the next 18 y.o. KPD also finds himself to have ongoing injuries?

Macreadie is 21. BSilvagni is 19. Goddard is 23.
We have to give some of those guys a go as otherwise - What was the point in getting them in the first place? It makes for a waste.

Harks all your objections are based around a number, an opinion, rather than reality of probabilities

So, let's see how that pans out

 

[HARKER]

Harks all your objections are based around a number, an opinion, rather than reality of probabilities

So, let's see how that pans out

Numbers are important though Arrow.

I watched 5 KPD's along with a first year Schumacher in the Norther Blues. It was terrible for any cohesion and development.
I don't want to see a side next year comprising a back 6 of Goddard, Macreadie, BSilvagni, 18 y.o. Player X, Johnson and Collinds along with ppossib;y Casboult in the back-line. it doesn't work and no one develops.

Get rid of players first before signing on more 18 year olds with late picks. No need.