Review Cats destroyate Tuggers by 72 points

[TheWoodenSlug]

Probably my favourite moment of the game. I didn't realise the tackler that George took on to get the handball away was Nankervis with a support effort from Hopper. Kid looks like he bends rebar by hand

That's a really good point. We need to see him perform against a stronger midfield before getting too excited, but only in terms of ability. Better mids will get their hands on the pill more in the first place, but there's not gonna be many physically stronger tacklers than big Nank.

 

[Play it Sam]

I'm fine with calling it unfair. Taranto, Hopper and Prestia have largely been good performers this season. They just don't have class to compliment them and there are so many deficiencies elsewhere.

The factors you mentioned likely inflated some of Stevens numbers (e.g 14 score involvements), but I have not seen our other young midfielders (Clark, Knevitt, Clohesy) impact like that against any opposition.

No worries if you need to see more to get excited or aren't convinced he gets a go next week. Everyone has their own level of caution. On this one I'm happy to be more on the optimistic scale. Let's see what happens next.

Bring me what you can do, not what you can't.
Pretty sure that's Scott's motto, and great for going forward
So he did a whole game, extremely well, negative crystal balls not required.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

For whatever reason it seems like your mind is made up on this one. Stevens just had our best midfield debut in years. I'd be surprised if the coaches looked at that performance and thought "nah, he'll be a liability against x opponent on y ground". We'll see.

I didn't say my mind was made up i just said i don't agree with the comparison because although you talk about slow inside mids on those teams you mentioned those guys can still spread defensively (dunkley is a classic example of this even worpel is good defensively though he's strictly a one position player). There are not many slow inside mids that are poor defensively on the spread that are existing in good teams now unless they are either absolutely A grade at the clearance or have huge tanks to make up for the lack of speed transition. There's no significant evidence George has either of those two things yet. It was a good debut but I won't get carried away-guys like constable and brodie did this too before their weaknesses got exposed and they became liabilities. Time will tell with this one (he was always going to be good first up hence it doesnt change much).

 

[Hinkley29]

Bring me what you can do, not what you can't.
Pretty sure that's Scott's motto, and great for going forward
So he did a whole game, extremely well, negative crystal balls not required.

I don’t disagree with you. He did what he needed to do against a very bad opponent.

The planets did align for him though. We would be kidding ourselves if we didn’t acknowledge the context if his performance.

 

[Hinkley29]

I'm fine with calling it unfair. Taranto, Hopper and Prestia have largely been good performers this season. They just don't have class to compliment them and there are so many deficiencies elsewhere.

The factors you mentioned likely inflated some of Stevens numbers (e.g 14 score involvements), but I have not seen our other young midfielders (Clark, Knevitt, Clohesy) impact like that against any opposition.

No worries if you need to see more to get excited or aren't convinced he gets a go next week. Everyone has their own level of caution. On this one I'm happy to be more on the optimistic scale. Let's see what happens next.

Fair enough. I hope to be as excited as you are in 7 days time.

But Taranto, hopper and Prestia would be one of the 2 worst starting midfields in the league. And behind those 3 in Richmond’s team it is even worse.

It is true that Knevitt, Clark and clohesy have never shown the impact Stevens did, but they have never had the dream conditions that Stevens had.

 

[Mr Meow]

I didn't say my mind was made up i just said i don't agree with the comparison because although you talk about slow inside mids on those teams you mentioned those guys can still spread defensively (dunkley is a classic example of this even worpel is good defensively though he's strictly a one position player). There are not many slow inside mids that are poor defensively on the spread that are existing in good teams now unless they are either absolutely A grade at the clearance or have huge tanks to make up for the lack of speed transition. There's no significant evidence George has either of those two things yet. It was a good debut but I won't get carried away-guys like constable and brodie did this too before their weaknesses got exposed and they became liabilities. Time will tell with this one (he was always going to be good first up hence it doesnt change much).

Good for you. I'm not demanding you get excited or be convinced. We are just going round in circles with people being told off for being impressed by a debut. We'll see what happens in future games. Give me Stevens over Clark and Knevitt any day. I'm fine with making that call after one senior game.

 

[D BRIDGE]

Steven's probably shown about as much in one game as Bruhn has in 60 odd... and Bruhn is certainly a level above Clark, Knevitt etc.

Certainly perfect conditions for him to debut, but I don't think I could have expected anything more than that from him.

Very good signs to build on... He didn't seem to put a foot wrong.

Still a long-term investment IMO, instead of someone that will feature late in the year for us.

Well played Roger Ramjet.

 

[Mr Meow]

Fair enough. I hope to be as excited as you are in 7 days time.

But Taranto, hopper and Prestia would be one of the 2 worst starting midfields in the league. And behind those 3 in Richmond’s team it is even worse.

It is true that Knevitt, Clark and clohesy have never shown the impact Stevens did, but they have never had the dream conditions that Stevens had.

Clohesy had 71% game time against a truly dreadful Melbourne side/midfield this year.

Clark similar against St Kilda.

Knevitt has had games against plenty of poor opposition.

Taranto and Hopper held their own against many midfields this season. Prestia was strong after returning until Mullin went to him yesterday.

I think the caveats are being overstated. Fair enough if he had 14 touches and 3 score involvements with a handful of clangers, but the performance massively offset any ease of difficulty parameters you could mark against him.

 

[Zouz Kitty]

Anyone else notice during the celebration of the first goal Dempsey and Miers shadow sparring?

I’m going to watch the replay

 

[Tony Barber]

There is no way you can drop Stevens or even make him sub after that game on debut.

Finally, we looked like we were a really good chance of getting clearances.
And we've looked pretty ineffective against almost every midfield.

I loved that Scott didn't give him the easy out of playing in a basic position.
Nup. "into the guts you go".

I'm assuming that Smith and Stengel come straight in.
O. Henry and M. Duncan out.
Maybe, Martin sub. (just because he's probably due for some protection).

I also should add that it looked like Stevens winning clearances allowed Atkins to forget about getting the ball and allowed him to go hunting.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

There is no way you can drop Stevens or even make him sub after that game on debut.

Finally, we looked like we were a really good chance of getting clearances.
And we've looked pretty ineffective against almost every midfield.

I loved that Scott didn't give him the easy out of playing in a basic position.
Nup. "into the guts you go".

I'm assuming that Smith and Stengel come straight in.
O. Henry and M. Duncan out.
Maybe, Martin sub. (just because he's probably due for some protection).

I also should add that it looked like Stevens winning clearances allowed Atkins to forget about getting the ball and allowed him to go hunting.

Makes it hard to make changes because Smith comes in, with Clohesy's banging the door down as we speak against the Tigers in the vfl.

 

[Mr Meow]

Makes it hard to make changes because Smith comes in, with Clohesy's banging the door down as we speak against the Tigers in the vfl.

Does it make it hard? I would have thought Tony Barber's suggested changes were fairly straightforward.

 

[Hinkley29]

Clohesy had 71% game time against a truly dreadful Melbourne side/midfield this year.

Clark similar against St Kilda.

Knevitt has had games against plenty of poor opposition.

Taranto and Hopper held their own against many midfields this season. Prestia was strong after returning until Mullin went to him yesterday.

I think the caveats are being overstated. Fair enough if he had 14 touches and 3 score involvements with a handful of clangers, but the performance massively offset any ease of difficulty parameters you could mark against him.

Did Clohesy and Clark get extended minutes at home against crap opponents, playing their preferred position? No they didn’t.

Like I keep saying, he did all that he could. But he did exactly what he should have done in the conditions.

 

[Hinkley29]

Makes it hard to make changes because Smith comes in, with Clohesy's banging the door down as we speak against the Tigers in the vfl.

I think there is a real chance that Stevens gets dropped.

If they are going a horses for courses line of thinking, he will likely make way. The giants away from home on a fast track is not the course for George.

 

[Mr Meow]

Did Clohesy and Clark get extended minutes at home against crap opponents, playing their preferred position? No they didn’t.

Like I keep saying, he did all that he could. But he did exactly what he should have done in the conditions.

He "should have" had 14 score involvements, a goal, 2 goal assists, 8 clearances and largely flawless disposals over 20+? You certainly expected a lot more than me!

 

[Catman]

Stevens is a classic case of it being better to be good than to be quick. Even if he isn’t quick, look how he gets to the right places to have an impact. Exactly the right type to complement Smith and Holmes too. Strong over the ball and feeding it out to the runners. Persist!

See Jimmy Bartel.

Obviously not a fair comparison, but similar traits. Jim wasn't aerobically blessed, but he was a natural footballer. I see similarities with George.

 

[Strange Cat]

Makes it hard to make changes because Smith comes in, with Clohesy's banging the door down as we speak against the Tigers in the vfl.

Stevens physical build and debut makes it very hard for him to be dropped , Atkins can roam around the ground as he pleases with Smith coming in …I’m very excited to see how this midfield plays with both smith and Holmes and Stevens in there now

 

[cats_09]

Duncan will be an out next week - that opens up a spot for Smith to return

 

[winty]

Duncan will be an out next week - that opens up a spot for Smith to return

Duncan out, Martin sub, Smith into the 22.

 

[Strange Cat]

Duncan will be an out next week - that opens up a spot for Smith to return

Martin is the next in line to be dropped or moved to sub imo

But yes it’s pretty straight forward I’ll be bitter if Stevens is dropped after that debut, he may get flogged on a faster track but it’s best we get that exposure early rather than later

 

[Hinkley29]

He "should have" had 14 score involvements, a goal, 2 goal assists, 8 clearances and largely flawless disposals over 20+? You certainly expected a lot more than me!

Did you watch the game?

The pressure in that game was nonexistent. It was a glorified training run in which he played the vast majority of the game on ball against a spud filled midfield.

As I have said multiple times, it suited his skillset down to the ground. Yes, he played well, that is unquestionable. I am not criticising him. I did however expect any competent inside mid to have a good game in those conditions.

And if George turns into a competent inside mid against real teams it will be a massive win for the club.

 

[Mr Meow]

Did you watch the game?

The pressure in that game was nonexistent. It was a glorified training run in which he played the vast majority of the game on ball against a spud filled midfield.

As I have said multiple times, it suited his skillset down to the ground. Yes, he played well, that is unquestionable. I am not criticising him. I did however expect any competent inside mid to have a good game in those conditions.

And if George turns into a competent inside mid against real teams it will be a massive win for the club.

Honest question: what purpose do questions like this serve? It's just being prickish for the sake of it.

Fair enough on the rest. It sounds like yesterday wasn't a valid game to rate players on, so I'm not sure why those people even watched the game. Anyway, it's time to move on. Somehow Stevens strong game is becoming an arguing point, which I didn't expect.

 

[Strange Cat]

If Stevens as a teenager can stand up in a tackle with two big bodied players like hooper and Navk as a teenager, I dare say he can handle the pressure of the role as a inside midfielder imo

 

[cats_09]

Martin is the next in line to be dropped or moved to sub imo

But yes it’s pretty straight forward I’ll be bitter if Stevens is dropped after that debut, he may get flogged on a faster track but it’s best we get that exposure early rather than later

Maybe, but I'm pretty comfortable that Duncan won't be the plane to Sydney - he finished today's VFL game with his right arm in a sling

Hopefully it's nothing serious, but I don't know of too many 6 day injuries when you're immobilising the arm that quickly

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Martin is the next in line to be dropped or moved to sub imo

But yes it’s pretty straight forward I’ll be bitter if Stevens is dropped after that debut, he may get flogged on a faster track but it’s best we get that exposure early rather than later

Yes and no. We can probably only afford to drop one more game (the reality is apart from gws we should win all the others though) if we want a top 2 home final (assuming adelaide/Brisbane keep flying) so the coaches may go horses for courses next week. He would be unlucky to get dropped but i could see why.